"Self defense is a Myth"

I work at a university that one might expect would have a stereotypically head-in-the-sand approach to preparing for a violent incident. I was therefore pleased to see in a recent edition of the student paper:

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University Police Chief Kirk Gaston and SF State’s emergency preparedness coordinator Gayle Orr-Smith were on site for the drill.

Orr-Smith said maintaining a “survival mindset” can be crucial in an active shooter crisis, adding it’s important not to give in to despair.

“Never count yourself out,” she said. “Not as long as you’re breathing.”

Orr-Smith’s first advice is to avoid being an available target, that getting away or hiding out should be the first priority.

But if you find yourself trapped and confronted, she added, you may want to fight back.

“It’s one gun,” she said. “One bullet.” Attempting to disable the assailant with a book or a chair might buy time or save your life, Orr-Smith said.

She acknowledged that campus shootings are a sensitive subject. Many people would prefer not to think about the issue at all, but preparation and honesty are key.

Ultimately, Orr-Smith said, the police response to an active shooter crisis is only part of the answer.

“Thirty thousand people on this campus need to take care of themselves as individuals,” she said.

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Now this is San Francisco so I can hardly hold it against the individuals quoted that they did not care to discuss the possibility of students or faculty carrying firearms. But I was certainly pleased that the individuals quoted are emphasizing personal responsibility and that students should be prepared to fight back.

The full article is at http://xpress.sfsu.edu/archives/news/010791.html.

The safety that campuses offer is minimal. Never once have we had a professor even mention alternate exits incase of a shooting. I'm not saying that these kids just lied down to die but they didn't know where to go.
Since this is the case at my school I always make sure to survey classrooms for alternate exits, windows, fire escapes etc. If we have a shooter at our school he (or she) is going to see my hind end as I am fleeing towards the nearest exit. Id rather be shot in the back while trying to do something to procure safety than double tapped while cowering in a corner.

Most of the folks that I have talked to that are "anti gun" are actually scared of the responsibility that the ownership and use of a firearm entails. I get comments like "I could never kill, shoot, hurt anyone." or "Guns are scary, dangerous." Or my personal favorite, "What do you need that thing for?"

Simply put, these folks are scared of guns, can't stand the thought of someone else not being scared like they are, so feel that you have to drop down to their denominator so they don't feel inferior.

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Wow. Very good insight. I agree 100%.

A simular aspect, a lot of anti's don't like that they have to face life scared, but someone else can walk a bit taller because they have taken their security serriously. It's not fair that you have taken charge of your life, decided you aren't going to be a victim and can actually do something if threatened.

Some of the "scared of their own shadows" group of anti's would never, ever admitt that they are terrified of the world around them. In their condecending, arrogent way they feal they have everything figured out and undercontrol.

But deep down inside, they are terrorfied because they know they just *can not* controll the world around them, no matter how hard they try.

And it pisses them off that YOU don't have to deal with being scared that the boogie man will get you.

i wonder how the person stating that
'self defense is a myth
', if he was being attacked, and somebody with a ccw came along and protected him. if he might change his mind, or just continue his rediculous belief. if he would thank the person for saving him, or go on believing that there was no need for such intervention, that the police would be there shortly to protect him. some people! i would never wish bad on anyone who hadn't harmed me, but some people need a serious dose of reality dumped into their laps, if for no other reason than to wake them up!

I'm going to quit driving my car.

The breaks might not work when I need them, so it's too dangerous to be zipping around at 55mph in a 3000lbs missle.

"Active Shooter Situation" "Self-Defense Mindset" - I've heard this rubbish before your university has been watching the same training video's that the University of Miami has:

http://www6.miami.edu/UMH/CDA/UMH_Main/0,1770,2573-1;54011-2,00.html

There is nothing more dangerous than a liberal with a plan.

In fact, some of the greatest nations in history...

Regarding Army Crawl as the best practical Self Defense:

In fact, some of the greatest nations in history...probably were successful because they upheld the glorious tradition of crawling away from all conflict on their bellies.

Adopting this, their citizens embodied the wondrous principle of standing up for nothing, fighting for nothing, and honoring nothing. I guess this proves that Self-Defense ain't all its cracked up to be?

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I heard some of the same interview

I heard a sound bite from the same interview that the OP was talking about. In it the guy who wrote the book on staying safe on campus stated that arming students was a bad idea because:

1. You wouldn't react fast enough to prevent the shooter from killing somebody. (I guess if you can't save everybody you shouldn't try?)

2. Police are generally not very good shots in firefights therefore "untrained civilians" (direct quote) would not be able to hit the assailant and again, would not be able to save anybody.

Why bother arguing with people like that? Ignorant fools such as the aforementioned anti-gunners are entirely devoid of any cognitive capacity whatsoever.

Hey DuraMaximum

"What will they think of next? Put your finger in the tip of barrel so they can't shoot you like Bugs Bunny."----DurMaximum

mmmm....sources familiar with the Myth of Self-Defense, do indeed advise aggressive action as the best course, and in particular, sticking your finger into the gun barrel is very much desired to avoid further injury to all concerned.

In fact, no scientific study in history shows that any homicidal maniac waved his gun around to avoid the insertion of a brave person's finger. Some would-be Heroes were shot, but it was believed these were accidental shootings on the part of the homicidal maniac.

Authorities recommend measuring the gun's aperture first to determine if one's finger will insert into the barrel. Also, if you find that your finger will not fit actually fit inside the barrel, try to locate a young lady with a small finger and ask her to plug the barrel.

This failing....do the Army Crawl.

Most importantly though, post signs everywhere, identifying all areas as "GUN-FREE-ZONES" and if you cannot hold up a "GUN-FREE-ZONE" during a homicidal maniac's rampage, try "HOLDING-THE-THOUGHT" until help arrives.

/

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the sad thing is if someone had a gun and shot a bad guy who was shooting up a school
chances are the left would attack and want to prosecute them for putting people in danger !!!! and shooting

then they would go on to say how sad it was the poor (bad guy) shooter had a tough child hood and he should not have been shot but talked to instead !

the anti gun fanatics are that whacked

I was listening to an interview with a college age girl on the radio on the anniversery day of the VT shooting. All of the old unproven BS stated before in this thread were presented as fact, with no-one to offer any kind of rebuttal. She preceded every line with, "I feel..."
All of us should instantly jump a person's case when they say that. Feelings have no place in this context. We are all rational human beings, who think about things (well, some of us, anyway).
I could care less about how you feel about something, tell me what you think!.

Reminds me of when I was a kid and we practiced the "duck and cover" under our school desks to protect us against nuclear blasts!

A simular aspect, a lot of anti's don't like that they have to face life scared, but someone else can walk a bit taller because they have taken their security serriously. It's not fair that you have taken charge of your life, decided you aren't going to be a victim and can actually do something if threatened.

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That's the "herd defense". They don't believe in anyone having ANY defense against violence beyond random chance.

I must be getting older and dumber.

I simply don't understand what the sheep from the handgun violence prevention center meant when he said "the notion of self defense is a myth"?

I simply don't have a clue as to what that means.

I mean, the universal law throughout the USA allows us to defend ourselves when our lives are threatened, etc. And it's been the law of the land for centuries.

Can someone please explain his statement to me? Like I said, I honestly have no idea what he meant. It follows absolutely no logic in my old, slow brain.

Thank you for any explanations, I simply have no idea what that "notion of self defense is a myth" statement means.

Folks, I really do feel that you're not giving the "sit tight and wait for help." strategy a fair shake. It has been used throughout history, so there's plenty of support for his position.

Just a few famous examples:
The Siege of Troy
The Siege of Jerusalem
The Maginot Line

Consider these when you shape your argument.






I don't really need sarcasm tags on that, do I?

Quote:

Most of the folks that I have talked to that are "anti gun" are actually scared of the responsibility that the ownership and use of a firearm entails. I get comments like "I could never kill, shoot, hurt anyone." or "Guns are scary, dangerous." Or my personal favorite, "What do you need that thing for?"

Click to expand...

Simply put, these folks are scared of guns, can't stand the thought of someone else not being scared like they are, so feel that you have to drop down to their denominator so they don't feel inferior.

Wow. Very good insight. I agree 100%.

A simular aspect, a lot of anti's don't like that they have to face life scared, but someone else can walk a bit taller because they have taken their security serriously. It's not fair that you have taken charge of your life, decided you aren't going to be a victim and can actually do something if threatened.

Some of the "scared of their own shadows" group of anti's would never, ever admitt that they are terrified of the world around them. In their condecending, arrogent way they feal they have everything figured out and undercontrol.

But deep down inside, they are terrorfied because they know they just *can not* controll the world around them, no matter how hard they try.

And it pisses them off that YOU don't have to deal with being scared that the boogie man will get you.

Click to expand...

Actually, it may have more to do with this: people like us who take responsibility for ourselves remind the blissninnies that evil does exist in the world. They are trying to ignore the threats, be it out of fear or just plain old fashioned cowardice. We are resented for "disturbing their bubble". We provoke the evil that threatens them harm is how they see the world.

In their minds, I guess bad things happen because criminals are mad that we own guns . Kinda like how they think that spraying a badguy with pepper spray or mace (or begging/groveling) is 110% effective, but if you shoot the same BG in the chest 4 times with a 357 Magnum, it will only make him angry.

Most of the folks that I have talked to that are "anti gun" are actually scared of the responsibility that the ownership and use of a firearm entails.

Click to expand...

I have a ton of respect for people who choose not to own guns because they see it as a big responsibility. Well, it is! What I have a problem with is when people decide that since they are unable to handle the responsibility, no one else should be trusted either. I may not be able to perform brain surgery, but that doesn't mean that no one else can.

The Violence Policy Center and Center Against Handgun Violence people live in their own little dream world, believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy no doubt, and never have a care in the world.

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I think it is time to treat these people and groups as the anti freedom, neo-facists they are, rather than simply misguided polyannas. I am convinced that they are way beyond utopian dreamers. Their arguments have long since been debunked as totally lacking in any credible evidence. My only conclusion then, is that their goal is an evil, unAmerican plan to subvert the very freedoms upon which this nation was founded.
I was just watching a news story critisizing John McCain for his legendary temper. Maybe it's time we adopt some of that anger towards these traitors. It is well past time to stop suffering these fools. I hereby pledge from this day forward to call them out. I'm done playing nice.

Hey now, at least "Duck and Cover" might actually save some lives depending on distance from hypocenter, and warhead yield. Better to be down low and behind protection of some kind when the overpressure wave hits.

duck duck scream

actually these people know they are better than the common herd,better educated and know whats best for us low lifes.the reality is we may be better educated,and I know I can shoot better than most police.I as well as a lot of others have had military training.AOM3C.and I dont push easy,but I dont look for confrontations.but have had several.and I am still here at 83.
and yes its time we fought back and put these nutcakes in place.sara brady testifies in congress and lies,make here swear to tell the truth and charge her when she lies.no more nice guy it does not work.--
:banghead:

I honestly don't think the number of deaths at VT had as much to do with victims not valuing their lives, as it did with victims not knowing how to protect their lives.

Throw a two-year-old into a pond and tell him to swim. He'll drown, right? Well, most of them anyway. When it comes to self-defense, most of the people in my generation, I'm 23, have never been taught how to fight back. They have never had their lives or well-being threatened.

They go into shock just like that two-year-old will. Their infantalized minds can't handle that kind trauma. They will drown, so to speak, because noone has ever taught them to swim.

The biggest decision that most people my age have ever made was where to go to college or where to go to work. They have never had to make choices with life or death consequences. Many of them have never witnessed the death of someone their age. They think that death is for the old, the sick and the weak. They don't realize that death chooses who it will.

My tour in Iraq opened my eyes up alot. I am amazed at the immaturity I see in the kids on campus. They consider themselves educated, better than most of society, untouchable. One day they will be running the shell of what is left of this country. God help us all.

For them self defense does not exist because the self does not exist. You must be absorbed into the collective and function within the preset variations of society, freedom is inconvenient and must be given up.

That is the lie they are trying to cram down our throats folks! It is time now to stand for freedom or we may just lose it, and in the name of the great lie "security"

What would Joe Schmoe from this center do if you handed him a loaded 45 and then brought in 5 gang bangers to ravage, rape and beat his wife ?

Would he use the 45 to stop the attack on his wife ?

Or would he lay the 45 down and plead his case to the gang bangers verbally?

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Perhaps he would "Army crawl out of the building."

Guys, I've read all the posts in this thread and simply do not know what "the notion of self-defense is a myth" means.

Does it mean that a person is incapable of defending his or herself?

Is that wacko saying that if someone gets a rifle and decides to shoot people that no one is capable of defending themselves against that attack?

If so, he is a complete idiot.

I guess my confusion is this: If the notion of murder is not a myth, why would the notion of self-defense be a myth?

Throughout the years, statements like this from anti's have really confused me because they have no basis in reality or logic.

What did that anti mean? Someone please explain it to me.

(I'm not trying to be a smart aleck.)

The interesting thing is that these idiots say that the last thing you want is a person with a gun trying to stop the insane person who is shooting everyone in sight. So just low-crawl away rolleyes and hopefully someone else with a gun (these highly trained police) will show up and save your helpless backside.

Yep, sounds like circular logic to me, or at least some kind of circle ...