Auburn1992
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is that not a french mas?
The Citizen's Rifle
- Thread starter Nolo
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Nolo
Member
Neither of them are, as was established earlier. Surprisingly, the MAS 49 was one of the few semiautomatic postwar rifles I did not reference.
Nolo
Member
Whoop! I lied. Just found my semiautomatic rifle reference sheet I used extensively while designing this rifle; the MAS-49 is on it.
Famaldehide Face
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Probably a modern derivative of the Cei-Rigotti?, A thumbhole stock would be cool on it.
http://encyclodesarmes.free.fr/pays/italie/fusil/CEI-RIGOTTI/CEI-RIGOTTI.htm
Not to forget if "The Nation" is NATO, It should be chambered in 5.56 as some of the citizens may have a small/weak stature and the ability to accept STANAG magazines if there are left over ammo supplies from NATO troops. The standard magazine for the "Citizen Rifle" would be 10 rounds. 20/30+ round magazines will only be legal in the event of war. The same thing goes to "The Nation" if it is a Warsaw Pact member but vice-versa.
I was thinking the "Citizen Rifle" can be a bullpup but like the 1901 Thorneycroft Carbine so it will not be classed as an assault weapon.
http://encyclodesarmes.free.fr/pays/italie/fusil/CEI-RIGOTTI/CEI-RIGOTTI.htm
Not to forget if "The Nation" is NATO, It should be chambered in 5.56 as some of the citizens may have a small/weak stature and the ability to accept STANAG magazines if there are left over ammo supplies from NATO troops. The standard magazine for the "Citizen Rifle" would be 10 rounds. 20/30+ round magazines will only be legal in the event of war. The same thing goes to "The Nation" if it is a Warsaw Pact member but vice-versa.
I was thinking the "Citizen Rifle" can be a bullpup but like the 1901 Thorneycroft Carbine so it will not be classed as an assault weapon.
Nolo
Member
Well, in concept, maybe.
Wasn't that the first assault rifle?
Wasn't that the first assault rifle?
Famaldehide Face
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Here are some edited images of a Warsaw Bloc "Citizen Rifle":
The bottom one is designed to survive an "Assault Weapon" ban as pistol grips are illeagal in some states/countries. The idea is from the Monsterman Grip that is supposed to make AK's & AR's legal in California so i came up with the idea for a Bullpup to survive this situation.
The bottom one is designed to survive an "Assault Weapon" ban as pistol grips are illeagal in some states/countries. The idea is from the Monsterman Grip that is supposed to make AK's & AR's legal in California so i came up with the idea for a Bullpup to survive this situation.
Funderb
Member
except the bolt carrier smacking you in the face, not to mention your eyes being poked out by the ejecting hot brass........ 
It's awesome!!!!!
It's awesome!!!!!
Nolo
Member
The 7mm cartridge should be fine for people of all statures. Even the Japanese can handle that sort of cartridge, I believe.
5.56 doesn't feel right for a semiauto. But remember I also had exchangeable magazine groups, one of which is for 5.56.
paintballdude902
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the idea of arifel designed to arm citizens reminds me of the swiss
a rifle for every man
a rifle for every man
Nolo
Member
If I were going for purely that concept, I'd go with the Manx rifle (an automatic bullpup 6.5mm rifle that I'm designing).
Patrick_Henry
Member
Nolo,
Are you always this overrun with good ideas?
Are you always this overrun with good ideas?
SaMx
Member
I agree the idea is good.
The only problem is that I'm not sure you could produce it cheaply as designed. being able to change calibers is great but would require some complex engineering.
I think it would make more sense to design it as a simple stamped receiver rifle that uses common mags for the caliber (AR-15 for .223 or 6.8 SPC, AK for 7.62x39 or 5.45, and FAL or M-14 for .308). That way people could use pre-ban mags in states where that is necessary.
The only problem is that I'm not sure you could produce it cheaply as designed. being able to change calibers is great but would require some complex engineering.
I think it would make more sense to design it as a simple stamped receiver rifle that uses common mags for the caliber (AR-15 for .223 or 6.8 SPC, AK for 7.62x39 or 5.45, and FAL or M-14 for .308). That way people could use pre-ban mags in states where that is necessary.
Nolo
Member
You can always produce it cheaply, the only issue is if you lose money on it.
In this case, I would not care. If selling it for a loss gets the rifle into every gun-loving household in America, I'd do it.
Plus I intend to be fabulously rich, anyway.
By the way, thank you to everyone for your input, praise and criticism.
Patrick, you should see my "Guns" folder on my computer. So many ideas, so little free time. This is why I only have a 3.25 (GPA)!
In this case, I would not care. If selling it for a loss gets the rifle into every gun-loving household in America, I'd do it.
Plus I intend to be fabulously rich, anyway.
By the way, thank you to everyone for your input, praise and criticism.
Patrick, you should see my "Guns" folder on my computer. So many ideas, so little free time. This is why I only have a 3.25 (GPA)!
Patrick_Henry
Member
I hope you get a chance to do something with these ideas. While there is always room for nitpicking, you have at least one very strong and well developed concept gun in the works (and it sounds like several). It would be a shame not to see such a well thought out machine not come to completion...
Nolo
Member
Well, thank you, Mr. Henry.
I'd like to add an addendum for some of those who are concerned:
This rifle is not about compliance. This rifle is about subversion. For this particular weapon, I do not care if some of it's features would be illegal for a civilian to own in a hoplophobic nation, as long as the gun-grabbers don't know it's illegal!
It's like infiltrating a building. You want to look like all the other harmless employees, such as janitorial staff. This rifle is designed to look like all the other 'harmless' hunting rifles, while in reality giving the average citizen as close to modern capability as they can get. This rifle can change its stripes very quickly, with the addition of an EBR-type package that would have its tooling prepared before the event of revolution could change into a powerful fully automatic rifle equal to or better than any modern rifle currently offered.
I'll have to make threads on my other weapons some other time.
I'd like to add an addendum for some of those who are concerned:
This rifle is not about compliance. This rifle is about subversion. For this particular weapon, I do not care if some of it's features would be illegal for a civilian to own in a hoplophobic nation, as long as the gun-grabbers don't know it's illegal!
It's like infiltrating a building. You want to look like all the other harmless employees, such as janitorial staff. This rifle is designed to look like all the other 'harmless' hunting rifles, while in reality giving the average citizen as close to modern capability as they can get. This rifle can change its stripes very quickly, with the addition of an EBR-type package that would have its tooling prepared before the event of revolution could change into a powerful fully automatic rifle equal to or better than any modern rifle currently offered.
I'll have to make threads on my other weapons some other time.
NoirFan
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Hi Nolo, let me start by saying I think it's a great looking design! I love the idea of classic wood-stocked rifles with modular capabilities and I would definitely buy one if they were real. I do question the intended purpose though, since we have no guarantee that past trends in firearms bans will continue into the future. We know that anti-gun legislation is fairly arbitrary when it comes to determining "evil" features, so it wouldn't take much for this rifle to lose its "camouflage" very quickly.
cracked butt
Member
If the rifle is ever needed for what you've designed it for, it won't matter if it offends people or not when its brought out of hiding- just a thought. Another suggestion is to ixnay the detachable magazine unless the rifle is going to be made in vast numbers- a few damaged/lost magazines puts the gun out of commision otherwise. If you don't believe that, try to find a new magazine for a FN-49 or Mas without the use of the internet. This is where the M1 really shines- you can stockpile clips for around $1 each and really don't have to worry if you lose them.
A better idea might be widespread circulation of plans to build Sten Submachineguns. Large numbers of these were built right under the Nazis noses in occupied Norway. The parts for them can easily be made in a decentralized fashion in different factories without drawing much attention due to the fact that the individual parts don't look very gun-like.
A better idea might be widespread circulation of plans to build Sten Submachineguns. Large numbers of these were built right under the Nazis noses in occupied Norway. The parts for them can easily be made in a decentralized fashion in different factories without drawing much attention due to the fact that the individual parts don't look very gun-like.
Patrick_Henry
Member
Have you considered putting a cleaning kit in the butt stock like on the SKS, this seems like a very useful feature to me...
Nolo
Member
I could certainly build a cleaning kit into the buttstock.
I find that rifles are much better at war than SMGs, which is why, while I totally support building SMGs in wartime (I've even got that design base covered, a design named the Partisan), A rifle is almost always more useful.
I find that rifles are much better at war than SMGs, which is why, while I totally support building SMGs in wartime (I've even got that design base covered, a design named the Partisan), A rifle is almost always more useful.
No one knew that an illegitimate Austrian painter would grow up to rule nearly all of Europe and kill almost 10 million people, either.
Which is exactly why it's convertible into a machine gun.
This is the argument several Brits made when they were about to adopt the SMLE. It has largely been unfounded. The weapon can load from stripper clips if need be, so the argument is duly null.
Acheron
Member
And Godwin's Law is proven true yet again. Sigh.
Nolo
Member
Godwin is a moron. People use Hitler as an example because he's a darn good one. It's like cellphones. People use them because they're darn useful. Are you saying that I should switch to telegraph because cellphones are overused?
I can think of ten other good comparisons that also fit the bill, Hitler was just the most prominent, and I'm too lazy to try and be unique for uniqueness' sake.
Nolo
Member
Thank you, Eroc.
Tarvis
Member
Thoughts:
You're on the right idea with the design. The libs will never get them all, but as Tremple said:
An attempt at making a battle worthy rifle that sneaks around an AWB isn't necesarily a waste of time, but the real fix to the problem is to vote for conservatives. It is beyond me why liberals would support minority groups, but be willing to throw a consitutional ammendment under the bus :banghead:.
Enough of that, on the rifle:
I think the best idea would be to stick to mass produced cartridges, namely 5.56, 7.62x51, possibly 7.62x39. 6.8 spc isn't quite big enough yet, 6.5 grendel is just sprouting, and i have no idea what .280 orion is. In the case that it is a militia-issued weapon, ammo will be eaten up quick so the most abundant is the logical choice. If you had to chose just one, which would it be? I'd have to say 6.8 spc for its ballistic qualities, despite the ammo supply. I'd think the idea would be to create a rifle that anyone can fire and make them all the same so parts can be easily exchanged upon need. Everyone issued the rifle would have the same ammo and same mags. On the same thought, this would most likely be issued to someone that doesn't already have a battle-type rifle.
You're on the right idea with the design. The libs will never get them all, but as Tremple said:
An attempt at making a battle worthy rifle that sneaks around an AWB isn't necesarily a waste of time, but the real fix to the problem is to vote for conservatives. It is beyond me why liberals would support minority groups, but be willing to throw a consitutional ammendment under the bus :banghead:.
Enough of that, on the rifle:
I think the best idea would be to stick to mass produced cartridges, namely 5.56, 7.62x51, possibly 7.62x39. 6.8 spc isn't quite big enough yet, 6.5 grendel is just sprouting, and i have no idea what .280 orion is. In the case that it is a militia-issued weapon, ammo will be eaten up quick so the most abundant is the logical choice. If you had to chose just one, which would it be? I'd have to say 6.8 spc for its ballistic qualities, despite the ammo supply. I'd think the idea would be to create a rifle that anyone can fire and make them all the same so parts can be easily exchanged upon need. Everyone issued the rifle would have the same ammo and same mags. On the same thought, this would most likely be issued to someone that doesn't already have a battle-type rifle.
I really respect your effort and I like the direction you are headed with this.
I know people who are stuck in one of the hell states where you cannot buy an AR-15 or whatever similar pistol gripped semi with a detachable mag. These people would really like to be able to buy something like this today.
Choices right now are lacking. I've owned mini-14's and cannot honestly recommend them to anyone. They are what they are, don't expect them to replace a miltary rifle. The keltec 16's look like they lack the robust qualities I would like in a rifle, but I have never owned one. Maybe if they made it with a solid fixed stock.
I like the FN-49 very much, but if it were lighter and in 5.56 it would rock. Especially if it took AR mags.
SKS meets the requirements but I miss having a peep sight and detachable mags. The SKS has other minor issues such as the stock fit. The main thing the SKS seems to do is exist as a low priced competitor to a rifle such as this thread describes.
I also like the idea of something like this in 6.8, or .308, for a bit more oomph in hunting.
The bottom line for me would be military style construction similar to a M-1A or Garand or FN-49. Modular, easy to replace (or upgrade) parts, robust performance, and a very common caliber (perferably same as used by US armed forces).
Someone mentioned the Remmy autos. I like the lines of the 7400, and think the 7615 is cool, but am I the only guy thinking it would not be horrible for them to make a 7415 already? Their gas system needs much help, but for crying out loud there are several good systems they could study or copy. It's not like it is still 1930 and no one has broken the "autoloading code" yet.
I know people who are stuck in one of the hell states where you cannot buy an AR-15 or whatever similar pistol gripped semi with a detachable mag. These people would really like to be able to buy something like this today.
Choices right now are lacking. I've owned mini-14's and cannot honestly recommend them to anyone. They are what they are, don't expect them to replace a miltary rifle. The keltec 16's look like they lack the robust qualities I would like in a rifle, but I have never owned one. Maybe if they made it with a solid fixed stock.
I like the FN-49 very much, but if it were lighter and in 5.56 it would rock. Especially if it took AR mags.
SKS meets the requirements but I miss having a peep sight and detachable mags. The SKS has other minor issues such as the stock fit. The main thing the SKS seems to do is exist as a low priced competitor to a rifle such as this thread describes.
I also like the idea of something like this in 6.8, or .308, for a bit more oomph in hunting.
The bottom line for me would be military style construction similar to a M-1A or Garand or FN-49. Modular, easy to replace (or upgrade) parts, robust performance, and a very common caliber (perferably same as used by US armed forces).
Someone mentioned the Remmy autos. I like the lines of the 7400, and think the 7615 is cool, but am I the only guy thinking it would not be horrible for them to make a 7415 already? Their gas system needs much help, but for crying out loud there are several good systems they could study or copy. It's not like it is still 1930 and no one has broken the "autoloading code" yet.
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