armored_pig
Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2008
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- 30
My Mossberg 500 vs. Benelli Supernova....my findings...
- Thread starter lvcat2004
- Start date
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1911 guy
Member
lvcat2004, the issue I was addressing was the difficulty you seemed to have disassembling and reassembling your Mossberg, not any percieved difference in quality. For the record, I have used a Benelli pump and think they are a good shotgun. What I don't think is that the 500 is difficult. Let's face it, if you have the dexterity and patience to do surgery, you should have no problem with a shotgun someone with a tenth grade education can strip and reassemble.
Quote:
That's because no one but Mossberg bid on that contract
False. There are also Remington 870s' in service and as an odd coincidence to this thread, some Benelli guns, too.
I'm sorry if you took my comments as some sort of personal attack, but millions of people own and use the 500 with little complaint. There's nothing wrong with owning high end stuff, be it cars or guns, but casting unwarranted espursions on other styles or brands because of a lesser price tag is a little elitist. Your BMW may be "better engineered", but it will get you to work no better than my Chevy. But then I just work in a factory.
Quote:
That's because no one but Mossberg bid on that contract
False. There are also Remington 870s' in service and as an odd coincidence to this thread, some Benelli guns, too.
I'm sorry if you took my comments as some sort of personal attack, but millions of people own and use the 500 with little complaint. There's nothing wrong with owning high end stuff, be it cars or guns, but casting unwarranted espursions on other styles or brands because of a lesser price tag is a little elitist. Your BMW may be "better engineered", but it will get you to work no better than my Chevy. But then I just work in a factory.
CZ52GUY
Member
I have Nova's and 500's...
...as well as 590's, a Win 1300 and a Beretta 1201FP.
I don't own an 870 but my shooting partner has a couple...fine shotguns.
The 500 disassembly takes some practice, but not hard to master. I find that most outings doesn't require that level of diligence in cleaning.
About 1/2 my 500's needed a 200rd Break-in to get a decent action...the other 1/2 were fine out of the box.
My 500's typically don't care for the cheap WalMart Winchester shot...they do fine with the black-box Winchester, just about any Federal, Remington...Estate shot use has been with mixed results.
I'm short with short arms so I've used the Hogue short stock and added a Limbsaver pad...gets me to 13" LOP and a very pleasant shooting experience from 7.5 shot to the Brenneke "Grizzly Tamer" slugs.
I've got some with SF forends, others with the Hogue Forend (I like the feel). Most have some sort of Side-Saddle for on-gun access to fresh ammo'.
My Mossy's run, so do all the others including my Nova's which I very much enjoy. I like the sights better on the Nova (especially for 100yd slug shots)...the stock is long but the overlapping forend lets me pump 'em just fine with a more aggressive stance. The Nova's typically pattern better with Buck' which is no huge surprise given the difference in barrels.
With a good break-in and some practice your 500 should perform just fine for your class experience. Make sure you find out what it likes for ammo'...try to put at least 200 shells through it ahead of the class (of various types) and think about respecting it for what it is...a decent pump at a good price which has served many quite well.
In the end, your findings will be your findings...if the 500 doesn't work out for you...should be able to recoup enough to get you into something else. I've found that most go-bang implements are like shoes...need to fit the user/operator.
Safe Shooting,
CZ52'
p.s. 870 (although a fine weapon) 10 times the gun indeed...then my 3-shot drill on steel with an 870 should be .12ish with the 870...yeah, right
...as well as 590's, a Win 1300 and a Beretta 1201FP.
I don't own an 870 but my shooting partner has a couple...fine shotguns.
The 500 disassembly takes some practice, but not hard to master. I find that most outings doesn't require that level of diligence in cleaning.
About 1/2 my 500's needed a 200rd Break-in to get a decent action...the other 1/2 were fine out of the box.
My 500's typically don't care for the cheap WalMart Winchester shot...they do fine with the black-box Winchester, just about any Federal, Remington...Estate shot use has been with mixed results.
I'm short with short arms so I've used the Hogue short stock and added a Limbsaver pad...gets me to 13" LOP and a very pleasant shooting experience from 7.5 shot to the Brenneke "Grizzly Tamer" slugs.
I've got some with SF forends, others with the Hogue Forend (I like the feel). Most have some sort of Side-Saddle for on-gun access to fresh ammo'.
My Mossy's run, so do all the others including my Nova's which I very much enjoy. I like the sights better on the Nova (especially for 100yd slug shots)...the stock is long but the overlapping forend lets me pump 'em just fine with a more aggressive stance. The Nova's typically pattern better with Buck' which is no huge surprise given the difference in barrels.
With a good break-in and some practice your 500 should perform just fine for your class experience. Make sure you find out what it likes for ammo'...try to put at least 200 shells through it ahead of the class (of various types) and think about respecting it for what it is...a decent pump at a good price which has served many quite well.
In the end, your findings will be your findings...if the 500 doesn't work out for you...should be able to recoup enough to get you into something else. I've found that most go-bang implements are like shoes...need to fit the user/operator.
Safe Shooting,
CZ52'
p.s. 870 (although a fine weapon) 10 times the gun indeed...then my 3-shot drill on steel with an 870 should be .12ish with the 870...yeah, right
Wetawd
Member
I own a 500 and a Nova, and I never had any trouble with my Nova but the Mosberg I do have problems with (at least it's not an 870)
.
.This comment is not exactly true, you have to hold your jaw at the right angle and attempt to force your teeth out the front of your face with your tongue at the same time... and it has to a full moon. Only then after an hour or two can even begin to hope for success.
lvcat2004
Member
Well, I think those Mossy lovers are taking things personally, and just because there are a lot of 500's in circulation, it doesn't make them great, but useable, yes, I agree. I was simply comparing it to my Supernova, and in my opinion, Benelli is much better engineered, and anyone who does not have a preconceived bias would probably agree, and I didn't go into this biased, I've heard great things about 500, so I bought it. But let's face it, 500's mechanism is not near as elegant as the Benelli, and after having shot 100 or so rounds continuously on Benelli, I have never found it to be so dirty as I found it on shooting 60 rounds on 500, and I'm not even getting into build quality. And I'm not comparing Ferrari to Chevy here, the price diffence between a 500 and Nova or Supernova is not that significant. I'm hoping that my experience may help those who are considering pucharsing a low-priced pump shotgun.
1911 Guy, I was not referring to more recent Benelli M4 Super 90 or a few Remington's out there--I know that Benilli, Remington, and perhaps some winchester shotguns are in service, but that's not THE contract I'm referring to. As you know, Mossberg and its fans like to boast about passing the 3000 round test which apparently got them the contract, but (from what I read), Remington 870 was not submitted for this trial and apparently no one else bid on that contract since they knew that they were going to be underbid by Mossy, but this was long time ago. I would've gotten the M4, but my instructor specifically told me to avoid pistol grips since the ergonomics are apparently not correct for what we will be doing, and since the 500 or so cheap, I figure I'll give it a shot.
Markbo, get a life, or go to the "the lowroad" if you have nothing constructive to add.
1911 Guy, I was not referring to more recent Benelli M4 Super 90 or a few Remington's out there--I know that Benilli, Remington, and perhaps some winchester shotguns are in service, but that's not THE contract I'm referring to. As you know, Mossberg and its fans like to boast about passing the 3000 round test which apparently got them the contract, but (from what I read), Remington 870 was not submitted for this trial and apparently no one else bid on that contract since they knew that they were going to be underbid by Mossy, but this was long time ago. I would've gotten the M4, but my instructor specifically told me to avoid pistol grips since the ergonomics are apparently not correct for what we will be doing, and since the 500 or so cheap, I figure I'll give it a shot.
Markbo, get a life, or go to the "the lowroad" if you have nothing constructive to add.
lvcat2004
Member
Oh by the way, I am no proctologist, but proctologists or colorectal surgeons go through a fellowship after general surgery residency, meaning they are MORE trained than general surgeons. If you are ignorant you may want to keep your mouth shut/keyboard silent.
chas08
Member
I've been following this thread somewhat. I'm sure we can all agree that a sure fire way to get a mans hackles up is to insult his favorite "shootin iron". I don't own a Mossberg so I'm not defending them, I've cleaned a few for friends. I'm just curious. I'm sure you clean the area of the incision before you perform surgury. Did you clean your new Mossberg before you took it shooting? Since aside from rolling around in the dirt or mud with it, the only common denominator in dirtying a shotgun is the ammo. Was the ammo the same? new guns have a generous coating of preservatives applied at the factory because you never know how long they are going to set before being put to use. (kinda like waiting in the emergency room) This gunk can cause a lot of functional problems that is really not the guns fault. I once owned a benelli sbe 1 that I now feel was probably a lemon. But I won't give benelli a second chance because of that experience. If cleaning the gun makes you unhappy, get rid of it. Just don't trade it for an Ithaca 37 because tearing it down makes a Mossy seem like childs play.
Sergeant Sabre
Member
There will always be people that think the 500 is junk and that the 870 Express is awesome.
Then there are people that think the 870 Express, with it's plastic and MIM parts, and lack of hand-finishing is junk, and that the 870 Wingmaster is awesome.
Then there are people that think anything less than an 870 Police is junk.
Really, I doubt there is that much functional difference between them at all.
Then there are people that think the 870 Express, with it's plastic and MIM parts, and lack of hand-finishing is junk, and that the 870 Wingmaster is awesome.
Then there are people that think anything less than an 870 Police is junk.
Really, I doubt there is that much functional difference between them at all.
lvcat2004
Member
Cleaned before shooting, same exact ammo. That has nothing to do with cleaning incisions. besides, "I" don't clean/prep before the incision, that's what circulating nurses are for.
besides, "I" don't clean/prep before the incision, that's what circulating nurses are for.
ECVMatt
Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2004
- Messages
- 2,866
Talk about the lowroad...
" If you are ignorant you may want to keep your mouth shut/keyboard silent."
This is unacceptable behavior. You started this thread with rather harsh comments. Now you seem to get upset when others offer a different point of view. We all know how you feel about these two shotguns, so just leave it alone and move on.
" If you are ignorant you may want to keep your mouth shut/keyboard silent."
This is unacceptable behavior. You started this thread with rather harsh comments. Now you seem to get upset when others offer a different point of view. We all know how you feel about these two shotguns, so just leave it alone and move on.
Here is an attempt to put the pointy sticks away and make this thread into something usefull .
Points brought out by the OP are noted and of value to me. I am not all that familiar with the Nova as I pretty much retired from gun repair prior to seeing many of them. I remember a couple of them coming in for repair and they seemed to be, for the most part, well built and of good design. I do remember thinking however that they didn't live up to the hype I had been hearing , but that is all premature because they haven't been on the market nearly as long as the Mossberg 500.
I do know a lot about the Mossberg however. I think there is little doubt that the early extraction problem incountered was due to the preservative used inside the chamber. It is likely that if the chamber had been cleaned prior to shooting that the problem would have not occured. As to the assembly and dis-assembly of the Mossberg, I assure you I can do it blindfolded. While that makes it seem pretty easy or simple, perhaps the Nova is even better ? Not a problem for me to think it might be.
Is the Mossberg a bad gun ? Absolutely not - and although it's design is certainly dated it is far from obsolete. There are many who believe if it's not broke - don't fix it . The Mossberg 500 design is not broke.
That said, I will also accept the possibility that the Nova is an even better design - I have nothing to dispute that, and there is nothing the matter with improvement. If you like the Nova over the Mossberg - buy it ! Perhaps you will find ,as the OP suggests, there is enough differnce for you to be happy spending the extra money.
The Mossberg has always been a gun for people on a budget. Nice to know that we have an affordable choice that works well. Perhaps the OP will even gain more respect for them now that he has one, and can continue to use it over a longer time period ( give it a chance - )
Points brought out by the OP are noted and of value to me. I am not all that familiar with the Nova as I pretty much retired from gun repair prior to seeing many of them. I remember a couple of them coming in for repair and they seemed to be, for the most part, well built and of good design. I do remember thinking however that they didn't live up to the hype I had been hearing , but that is all premature because they haven't been on the market nearly as long as the Mossberg 500.
I do know a lot about the Mossberg however. I think there is little doubt that the early extraction problem incountered was due to the preservative used inside the chamber. It is likely that if the chamber had been cleaned prior to shooting that the problem would have not occured. As to the assembly and dis-assembly of the Mossberg, I assure you I can do it blindfolded. While that makes it seem pretty easy or simple, perhaps the Nova is even better ? Not a problem for me to think it might be.
Is the Mossberg a bad gun ? Absolutely not - and although it's design is certainly dated it is far from obsolete. There are many who believe if it's not broke - don't fix it . The Mossberg 500 design is not broke.
That said, I will also accept the possibility that the Nova is an even better design - I have nothing to dispute that, and there is nothing the matter with improvement. If you like the Nova over the Mossberg - buy it ! Perhaps you will find ,as the OP suggests, there is enough differnce for you to be happy spending the extra money.
The Mossberg has always been a gun for people on a budget. Nice to know that we have an affordable choice that works well. Perhaps the OP will even gain more respect for them now that he has one, and can continue to use it over a longer time period ( give it a chance -
)
md7
Member
hello lvcat2004,
you have 2 solid shotguns. my advice would be to give the 500 a chance. shoot it, clean it, get to know it. the 500 is a "budget" gun, but it is a budget gun that does work and works well. and it will probably get smoother and better with use.
you have 2 solid shotguns. my advice would be to give the 500 a chance. shoot it, clean it, get to know it. the 500 is a "budget" gun, but it is a budget gun that does work and works well. and it will probably get smoother and better with use.
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Ash
Member
Benellis are doubtlessly good shotguns. It does remind me of the time, though, when I, with my 870 (before getting my 500) was on a duck hunt with several other foresters. One was a consultant out of a major city who brought a Nova on the hunt. We hadn't gotten any ducks that morning in the rice paddy and so decided to do some geese along a levee. We lay against a levee and waited for he geese to come in beside a drained patty. A flight came in and we let them have it. My 870 brought down two geese and his Nova brought down but one. We ribbed the guy, that he couldn't get more than my express could get. In the end, it was the guy behind the shotgun that made the most difference.
Ash
Ash
1KPerDay
Member
But not "grammar."
/back to lurking
XDKingslayer
member
I have to agree with everyone that says Mossberg's are cheap. They are. I have an old Mossberg 500, pre-1984 or when ever it was they started drilling and tapping the tops of the receivers with two holes. It's a tank compared to today's Mossbergs.
Who cares if they're not tanks? They're priced so you can use them until you destroy them. (Local store has them for $249 with 28" barrel and 18" barrel)
How long do you need to use a shotgun to get your $250 out of it? Surely, it will last 10 times that long.
How long do you need to use a shotgun to get your $250 out of it? Surely, it will last 10 times that long.
lvcat2004
Member
^^^ funny coming from someone who knows his "grammAr"
In all seriousness, I found most posts to be useful and insightful. It's unfortunate that there are some immature people who troll around to ruin a good conversation by criticizing internet typos/grammar and make trifle points that are not useful.
As I said, I didn't mean to offend you 500 lovers. I don't think that many people have had a chance to compare a new design such as a Nova/Supernova with a somewhat dated design. I have to say that if you really insist that 500's design is simple, you have to see what "Benelli simple" is. I don't completely agree with if it's not broke, don't fix it theory either. There is a reason why Toyota is selling more cars with their spirit of KAIZEN, while some domestic auto manufacturers are leading the way for self-destruction by being too complacent and non-progressive, not just from design standpoing, but QA, manufacturing, marketing, etc. I'm always up for something newer/better.
In all seriousness, I found most posts to be useful and insightful. It's unfortunate that there are some immature people who troll around to ruin a good conversation by criticizing internet typos/grammar and make trifle points that are not useful.
As I said, I didn't mean to offend you 500 lovers. I don't think that many people have had a chance to compare a new design such as a Nova/Supernova with a somewhat dated design. I have to say that if you really insist that 500's design is simple, you have to see what "Benelli simple" is. I don't completely agree with if it's not broke, don't fix it theory either. There is a reason why Toyota is selling more cars with their spirit of KAIZEN, while some domestic auto manufacturers are leading the way for self-destruction by being too complacent and non-progressive, not just from design standpoing, but QA, manufacturing, marketing, etc. I'm always up for something newer/better.
Ash
Member
Man, no offense but your posts come off as being very effete and pompous. Even were I a dyed in the wool 870 guy, I would be very turned off by your contributions. You like the Nova? Fine by me. Get over the fact that not everybody believes the way you do. Others can actually like the 500, and I mean actually LIKE it, perform well with it (care to sit in a blind with me?) and actually prefer it over something else. It's not the end of the world if you fail, in your established wisdom (you are, after all, a surgeon - care to discuss IQ's?), to convince others of your passion.
Ash
Ash
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JNewell
Member
My take based on owning both - leaving aside issues like what fits (physically) or personal prefs for ergonomics:
870PM and somewhat older 870WM are better guns than the 500 by a big margin.
870 Express and maybe current production 870WM is closer to a draw and when you factor in the price differences probably really is a draw.
Earlier WMs are plentiful and so very reasonably priced and probably the best value of all of these choices. For new guns, the 500 is a good value on the price/performance scale.
YMMV...
870PM and somewhat older 870WM are better guns than the 500 by a big margin.
870 Express and maybe current production 870WM is closer to a draw and when you factor in the price differences probably really is a draw.
Earlier WMs are plentiful and so very reasonably priced and probably the best value of all of these choices. For new guns, the 500 is a good value on the price/performance scale.
YMMV...
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Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Play nice, guys, or watch this thread go away....
scythefwd
Member
Ivcat2004
To get the barrel off a little easier, completely open the action. Unscrew the retaining nut, and as you pull the barrel off, move the action towards closed. You will find that once the action is in the position it likes, the barrel will just come free. Taking the barrel off of the 500 shouldn't take you more than 30-40 seconds, depending on how tight you have the retaining nut.
To get the barrel off a little easier, completely open the action. Unscrew the retaining nut, and as you pull the barrel off, move the action towards closed. You will find that once the action is in the position it likes, the barrel will just come free. Taking the barrel off of the 500 shouldn't take you more than 30-40 seconds, depending on how tight you have the retaining nut.
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