Rules about capping cylinders ???

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C

Cincinnati Slim

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I have one of the "Dick Dastardly" cylinder loaders and always load and then cap my C&B revolvers' cylinders at the bench then assemble or insert the cylinders at the firing table. I use a soft wood dowel to seat the caps with the cylinders on a rag facing down on the loading bench. This works great for me and I never get a misfire, chain fire or lost cap this way.

So I'm out at the pistol line at Friendship last week, minding my own business, not bothering the other shooters who were having a match at the other end of the firing line. I follow the directions of the range officer and thought I was being a safe considerate shooter. But I am soon distracted buy a succession of old greybeard types who one after the other start giving me sh*t. First, "I heard you fire six shots, we only load five here for safety !"
OK, I've been a sixgun shooter since about ten years old, I know enough not to holster carry with six live chambers. But I'm shooting from a BENCH just doing a little practice. Anyway, I agree to only load five. Next, some other guy starts talking to me while I'm trying to load my cylinders. Not a good time to be distracted but I'm polite. Then he starts questioning my 'HOT LOAD". "You should be using cornmeal or creme of wheat filler" says he. Now I've spent a lot of time getting the load/sight combo on my pistols just right. They shoot to POA @ 25 yards when I do my part. Then another fellow comes up, sees my now loaded and capped cylinders sitting next to my revolver on the firing line and FREAKS !:what:

"You're not putting capped cylinder into your revolver are you ? Those are like bombs, waiting to go off" !!!:rolleyes:

YOU MAY ONLY CAP THE CYLINDER ONCE IT IS IN THE REVOLVER !!!:fire:

Ummm in theory, If I slammed one onto concrete really hard a cap MIGHT fire. Without any barrel the ball would not have a lot of velocity. I test I've seen where they deliberately tried to create a chain-fire using a fuse into the cap hole resulted in a velocity of about 220-280 feet per second from a call fired from a bare cylinder chamber. That's like a really weak BB gun. Only with a lot more noise and smoke and a heavier projectile.

Now I always point the revolver downrange when inserting a cylinder. I just don't see this practice as very risky. I've been doing it for years. Is this the practice at SASS cowboy action shoots ? I know some of these guys carry extra cylinders. Do they carry 'em capped or do they only cap them once in the gun ? I don't think what I'm doing is unsafe. But what, are the rules really ?:scrutiny:

Cheers,

Cincinnati Slim

p.s. I had thought of actually entering into pistol competition at Friendship this June. I am a NMLRA member and so far really enjoy shooting at their range. But I shoot for fun and this last encounter seems like a bunch of kill-joys. Seriously, If I wanted to be hassled I can always spend more time at work !:rolleyes:
 
To me, unless I was going to holster the revolver "which I would load just 5 chambers" I normally load all six during practice, & as far as loading caps onto the nipples without the cylinder being in the gun, I sometimes do that as well but again this is me & it also depends on the rules of the range too, but I've never been to a CAS or SASS shoot to observe any one shooting C&B before.
 
First, were any of these helpful folks officials of the meet, like a Range Safety Officer?

If so, you say thanks for reminding me, retire to the back and look in the written SOP for where it says you can't do that. If you can't find it, ask them for help, and apologize for not having remembered where it was.

If they were not RSO's, ask them to send one over, and ask the RSO for an opinion. If he agrees you weren't doing anything wrong, then ask him to help remove the distraction.

I've never been to Friendship. I've just joined NMLRA, and I'm afraid that one of the reasons I've delayed joining is that it has the reputation of being a group of elitists who make your life miserable if you don't do things their way. Maybe I made a mistake. I hope not.

We allow fully loaded revolvers and semi-auto pistols at our range. Thus you can load 6 in your revolver. I'm aware of other ranges that only allow 5. I don't mind that and comply when I'm aware of it. Off the line I carry with 5 loaded.

Also at our range, off the firing line loaded handguns must holstered at all times. That includes c&b revolvers. We do not allow capping anywhere but on the firing line. If you leave the line with a capped gun it must be either in a holster or a closed case.

At our range if an RSO (or a member) observed you capping a cylinder off the line you would be politely asked to hold off until on the line. If an RSO needed to deliver a second request it would be in the form of a requirement; a third infraction would be accompanied by a demand to leave the premises.

I understand you believe you are being perfectly safe, and it sounds like you are doing everything one could ask. And I understand you've never had a problem. Unfortunately nobody ever has a problem until it happens. And the consequences are too catastrophic to allow any possibility of a problem occuring. Thus the rule about capping on the line only.

We know full well that a capped cylinder is NOT a 'bomb'. But it CAN hurt someone. You think you've thought of everything, and I'm sure I can't successfully trade ancecdotes about capped cylinders being dropped or hit or falling in campfires, so I won't try. Just please try to accept that the rule attempts to make people safe; it's not there to make your life miserable. Sometimes you just have to accept the rules and live with them, even if you don't agree with them.

However, you don't have to live with rude people. Go to the RSO and ask for help. And live with his decisions.
 
I load 6 when target shooting all the time. As far as the light loads go, they used to load them up with powder leaving enough room for a round ball. I would have probably told the guy telling me to use a filler to go away in not so polite words, and the older men that it is just peachy to fire 6 from the line and keep doing it if it wasn't against the rules. I don't have time to play games with people.

I think that capping the cylinder when it is on the gun is the only thing that I agree with.
 
Good, comprehensive answer, mykeal.

As for loading five instead of six, I cannot see any possible safety difference when target shooting. When you're capping in preperation to fire, the hammer is at half-cock and you can have the gun pointed down range. You bring the gun up to fire, and then bring it to full cock. Hence, at no time is there a cocked hammer over a loaded chamber until you're pointed downrange, ready to fire. If five is the rule, I'd consider protesting the rule with those who make the rules. In so doing I would also state that some people are going to be just as likely to sweep the muzzle in the wrong place while fiddling around trying to place the empty chamber in the correct position, then cocking and lowering the hammer over it. To me, unless you've carefully reheahersed the five-beans-in-the-wheel-routine (the NRA Basic Pistol course doesn't even mention it) it would seem safer to load six and not fiddle-fart around.

I don't remember who it was, but whoever made the spare cylinder for my Remmington made a big point of telling the user never to cap a spare cylinder. The way they were used back in the day is an entirely different matter, I'm sure.

And yes, a loaded and capped cartridge is probably about as likely to go bang when you drop it, except for the fact the cylinder is going to hit with greater force, and that it will also contain the pressure and spit out a ball, thoughbeit at a reduced velocity. A cartridge will blow bits of brass like a matalic firecracker, but won't propel the ball at dangerous velocity. Ask me how I know.
 
Standard procedure in North-South Skirmish Association revolver team events is to load six, but not cap until directed to do so...with the cylinder in the gun.
 
I would encourage anyone to lobby for changing a rule requiring an empty chamber on the firing line. Many people have made Omnivore's argument successfully. As I said above, our club allows loading all chambers on the firing line.

But, if your's doesn't, then figure out how to live with it until it's changed.
 
Sounds like a bunch of killjoys looking to ruin somebody's day. They rolled over to you in a bad way and started barking orders at you without being polite. I would have responded in kind, though without profanity, and told them to shoot there own guns their own way, but these are my shootin' irons and I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me how to shoot them!

Even though the reduced pressures and very slow fps (220?) it will still hurt someone because of the weight of the lead ball. Won't kill anyone though. So you capped a cylinder when it was out of the frame...big deal. As long as you're experienced and know how to put the cylinder in without hurting yourself or others I say do it your way...like Burger king.

Normally I don't cap a cylinder out of the gun but there are some instances where I may have done it in the past. No big deal if you know what you're doing.

Those old guys think they own the range and don't take kindly to new people, especially people who "do things the wrong way" meaning not their way. Next time ignore them and have a good time. If they keep pestering you then call the range officer.
 
I don't have a beard, grey or otherwise, but IMHO there is a good reason not to cap a cylinder off the gun. I have seen a capped cylinder roll off a bench and fall onto the concrete below the bench. Fortunately, nothing happened, but had the cylinder landed the wrong way, a cap could have fired.

A capped cylinder is really a short barrel pistol and would be dangerous if a chamber were fired. In the old days, troops carried spare loaded cylinders for rapid reloading, but few of us today are using cap and ball revolvers in deadly combat, so, again IMHO, such practices are not necessary.

Tightgroups, your statement that "these are my shootin' irons and I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me how to shoot them!" won't wash.

I hope you have a big backyard to shoot in, because with that attitude you sure won't be allowed on any range that I know. On ranges, you will damned well be told how and when to load them, where to point them, and how and when to shoot them. If you choose to do things your way, you will be not so politely "asked" to leave, permanently.

You sound like you have a real problem with both safety and any authority. Grow up and get over it!

Jim
 
I agree Jim, it's not the Civil war or the wild west, but with the proper attention and experience it is the preference of the shooter and his/her choice as to the way the gun is handled. Firearms are dangerous in general and I've seen an empty center fire case land on a box of ammo and cause a cartridge to go off. Things happen regardless of how careful you are being.

There wasn't any rule against what slim was doing, and from what he wrote he was being safe and responsible. I don't cap cylinders when they are out of the frame because I usually load up my guns using the loading lever. Some people load using a bench loader and they cap them before putting the cylinder back into the frame. There isn't anything wrong with this as long as the person is responsible and has experience with C&B revolvers.

I like older shooters and have learned a lot of very valuable information from them. I've also been to the range and have run into a "click" of older guys. They tend to be rude and ignorant sometimes and think they own the range. They should have minded their business and let the young man have fun. If he was being unsafe it would have been a different story but from what I read he was doing a fine job of being safe.

Again, firearms can be intrinsically dangerous and it is good practice to be as safe as possible in every respect. But it isn't right to nitpic another shooter because they aren't doing it "your way." I mind my business when I'm at the range. If I decided to talk to people I'm pleasant and respectful. The only reason a person should admonish another on the range (or on a forum) is if another shooter is acting unsafe and putting the rest of the shooters in danger.

TG.
 
Tightgroups - you have half the story. You don't know the side from the people at the range. Cincinnati Slim may be telling it exactly the way it happened or embellished from his point of view. Frankly, he used several pejoratives when relating what they said, which suggests he's telling you how he interpreted their tone, and that's often more opinion than fact. They may well have been very polite and he just didn't like hearing what they were saying. Or, as he suggests, they may have been total jackasses. We just don't know.

I admit that I don't have all the facts either. That's why I suggested in my first post that he get a copy of the written rules or refer to an RSO for adjudication. Many ranges, mine included, would not have allowed at least some of what he was doing, and I strongly suspect that Friendship is at least as conservative as my local range in those areas.

Jim is absolutely right regarding your "I would have responded in kind, though without profanity, and told them to shoot there own guns their own way, but these are my shootin' irons and I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me how to shoot them!" attitude. Use that at our range and you will get an escort to the road immediately.
 
The only time I shoot a single action of any sort is for SASS. There it is five loaded.
C&B cylinders may be charged off the line but must be capped at the loading table where breechloaders are loaded. There is an exemption for a stage calling for a "one shot reload" into the empty chamber of a cartridge gun, for the C&B to have the sixth chamber charged but not capped until executing the CoF on the clock.
I don't put non-gunpowder crap in my ammunition, but it is a popular dodge for the tenderfoot.
 
Glad I'm not going to be shooting at your range anytime soon. The truth be told I have experienced similar treatment from a group of old curmudgeons! I always handle my firearms safely and treat people with the proper respect and manners. That ends immediately when people don't show me the same respect in return. Jim is right in your opinion, not mine. This is the kind of behavior I am talking about. You chime in because you didn't like my comment and then tell me how I'd be escorted from your range. Those kinds of comments aren't exactly friendly or hospitable, now are they? Maybe when I have a post count of 900 I'll feel like I can say rude things to new members also...hmmph!!!

Again Jim, I agree with you, no cream of wheat or corn meal for me either.

P.S.,

As long as a person follows the range rules he or she is free to shoot in any manner they like!
 
How is :
...these are my shootin' irons and I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me how to shoot them!
Click to expand...
compatible with:
As long as a person follows the range rules he or she is free to shoot in any manner they like!
Click to expand...

I think those are two very different attitudes.

It's very simple: if you take former attitude you will not be allowed to shoot at our range. Or anybody else's. If you take the latter, you'll be welcome, and I'll buy the coffee and doughnuts.
 
Listen,

This is getting stupid. For some reason or another you hooked onto my earlier post and took it out of context, then said I wouldn't be welcome at your range. No big deal either way. Let's forget about arguing back and forth and call it a day, cool?

The earlier statement would have been directed at a person or persons who didn't show me respect. I tend to turn the other check more so then pick fights over foolish things. Yes, they are different attitudes, but they do not contradict each other if you take each in the proper context.

Coffee and donuts are always welcome. I'd rather call a person my friend then my enemy.

TG.
 
I apologize for being overly sensitive. if we ever meet in this life I'll bring the coffee, you take care of the donuts! I actually think I'm going to go out and get some donuts, right at this very minute. I've got some excellent coffee to go with it too!

Ummmm...donuts...drool (Homer Simpson)
 
It sounds mostly like a bunch of "buzzkills" that just wanted to ruin somebody's day. But a capped cylinder sitting on the bench is not very safe.

My advice: Get a speed capper (I think that's what they are called.) Load all six however you want; with the loading lever or a bench loader, doesn't matter. Cap once the cylinder is in the gun, using the speed capper.

BTW, if you have a Ruger Old Army or (I believe) an old Remington C&B, you can carry safely with all 6 chambers loaded and capped, but you have to rest the hammer in a notch cut between the nipples.
 
Capping rules-thanks for the input folks !

Just got a chance to look at this forum to see some of the responses to my post. You can always count on some interesting and (usually) intelligent discussion around here ! Thought I would jump back in...

Firstly...Mykeal, don't regret joining the NMLRA. I love shooting at the range at Friendship. I've been out there a couple of dozen times in the past. With the exception of that last visit the folks shooting there have been really friendly, helpful and generous. That is what made this last experience so surprising. The other shooters were involved in an organized shoot and were getting ready for the big National Match in June. The pressure of competition can make people edgy and critical. I shoot to relax and have fun. I fear these official matches are a little too organized for me !:rolleyes:

Second...Mike OTDP, thanks for the input regarding revolver use in the N/SSA.
Very interesting that all six chambers are loaded. I know DGW and others sell "period correct" spare cylinder boxes for Remington and Rogers and Spencer shooters. Do any of the N/SSA participants make use of them and if so how ?

Third...Jim Watson I've only been to one SASS shoot so far but what you mentioned confirms what I've seen. Do any "Frontiersman" cap&ball shooters ever do a "Pale Rider" style cylinder swap reload on their Remmies at SASS events ? I've discovered Cabela's sells a twin belt pouch sold for storing extra Ruger 10/22 clips which fits spare Remington cap&ball cylinders perfectly. It's only about twenty bucks.

Now, whether it is safe, prudent or allowable under various range rules to carry loaded and CAPPED extra cylinders in a belt pouch with snap tops is up for debate. I think it is worth noting that the nipples on a Remington cylinder are so totally recessed that capper access is difficult. The caps are really quite well protected.

If I ever wind up with a "scrap" spare Remington Cap & Ball revolver cylinder perhaps I'll load up the nipples with caps, put on some eye protection and spend some time tossing it onto the sidewalk to see if it is even possible to set off a cap by dropping or throwing a capped cylinder onto a hard surface.:scrutiny: If anybody out there has a "scrap" cylinder, perhaps one with bolt notch damage or something, feel free to try this. Or PM me and mail it to me to perform the "out-of-gun-capped-cylinder" drop test !:cool:

Thanks for your input and opinions everyone !

Slim
 
Cincinatti, the answer is no. We load and shoot 6 rounds. Swapping cylinders was always more of a stunt than a practical move - during the Great Unpleasantness, many troopers carried 2 or more revolvers.
 
to add to mike OTDp post at, NSSA you load at the bench which is also the fireing line. when done you call at a low voice or raise a hand for a safty office to check your gun first the nipples to make sure there is no caps on them then the chambers to make sure they are empty. No loaded wepons are alowed to leave the fireing line in Nssa comp. this includes all long guns. you need to be cleared by a safty officer.
 
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