I want a home defense dog, but don't want to keep it in the house.

Hi!

It would feel quite strange to me to have a family member sleep outside- especially if he has a short coat. The most important thing to remember about dogs is that they are pack animals, genetically bred to work, play, eat, and sleep with company. You do your dog a disservice if you keep him in the backyard alone all or most of the time. A dog wants to be part of a family! How long are your "short trips"? A dog isn't a simple safety accessoir- get a burglar alarm if you want to go the uncomplicated route. No carpet or cleaning bills can shorten the fun of dog ownership- but that may be just me.

Besides, leaving a dog in the garden is about as useless as having a gun in the safe in the cellar. Ever watched "there is something about Mary"? ... Burglars often drug or kill dogs with food thrown in the garden, then wait a little- voila... Even if you are at home- this will rob you of the precious few seconds warning time an indoor dog will give you.

My advise, adopt an older dog, which has already basic obedience training, is used to staying at home alone (for a few hours- anything else is cruel!), doesn't destroy things or ???? on the floor. But by all means give him time to adapt to his new home! Contact organizations like this one: http://www.pbrc.net/home.html

Regards

Cato

If you honestly like animals and don't want to be cruel to animals, don't buy a dog if you are going to keep it outside.
Dogs are pack animals. You can tell by a dog's behavior that this is a very strong instinct for them, and it obviously plays a very big role in their lives. Rather than incarcerateing an animal so that it can not exercise one of it's most fundamental drives, just don't get a dog at all.

Edit: I guess the previous post says basically the same thing, sorry, great minds think alike but maybe it does need repeating.

Please, if the dog isn't going to be indoors with your family, don't get the dog. It's not fair to the dog to banish it to the outdoors. It is a social animal and YOU are its pack. Besides, it'll do more good protecting your home if it is IN the home.

Then again...if you bought two dogs wouldn't they be there own pack and thus comfortable outside?

brad cook

Look at the thread title

"I want a home defense dog, but don't want to keep it in the house"

What good is it if it's outside when someone's breaking in?

Funny I think our dog.........

wants us to be outside so she can have the house to her self. Pack animal indeed.

Here she is alert and ready for action. Look at those steely eyes, that ready for action stance, that courageous look. Ahh we love her anyway.



I couldn't imagine leaving a member of our pack outside. She is a part of our family and is very well trained. She sleeps late, watches TV and guards the house all day long.

Dogs are very very social animals and they need companionship. Besides the best way to train a dog to act as a defender is to adopt them into your pack and that means making them a part of your daily routine. You train them a little and they train you a little and both of you get something out of the bargain.

Chris

I don't think you are ready for another dog. You want the benefits but don't want any potential downside of dog ownership.

Suggest you wire your house with quality alarm system instead.

"They generally make every thing smell like a dog, leave the occasional mess on your carpet, wear out furniture faster, leave hair everywhere, etc.

Hum. Sounds just like kids to me. Funny smell, messes, hard on the furniture, leave stuff everywhere... At least they don't shed until they're older.

Yeah, there are other ways to do it.

Get an alarm system that ties in to a monitoring service.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, pisses me off more than people who get a dog simply because having a dog is sort of the thing to do, and then essentially neglect it.

Odd. Looks like I'm with the majority on this one. Don't want a dog, don't get a dog. Want an alarm, get an alarm.



And please don't let your good old lab's experience determine how you treat your next dog. Ask yourself this: Why shoud your new dog be kept outside just because you didn't know any better with your old dog?

Now, if you want a GOOD dog (and alarm) who will be a good friend and die if you keep it away from the family, get a Fila.

Well, I am all about dogs. I have two of them and they come and go as they please via doggie doors. That was the best investment we ever made. Our dogs stay in most of the time because they like the A/C therefore they don't smell up the house with smelly dog sweat smell. Hair IS a problem but we have 100% tile in our house so we just sweep it up.

While I do not like the idea of leaving dogs outside, a great deal of people do. My grandfather once told me when I asked him why the coon dogs had to live in kennels that he would screw up a perfectly good dog by letting him associate with people while not working (hunting). I have jeard this from many other hunters about their dogs. They don't come inside, they get fed the same meal everyday at the same time, etc. That keeps them in tune to what they were bred for.

But, I wouldn't do it. My dogs are part of the family and I enjoy their company.





GT

Get a Fila only if you hate the mailman, the plumber, the garbageman, and assorted extended relatives...


My dogs are also part of my family, and I enjoy their company MORE than that of the vast majority of lesser beings whom I know.

Here's my general answer to your questions...

I got my dog in 1997. At the time my roommate had a cat. Ruger (yep, that's her name for a variety of reasons) did well until my roommate moved, and she was alone.

After a couple of weeks I began to realize that she simply wasn't doing well being left alone for 8 hours while I was at work.

So, I got her a companion. I didn't want another dog, but I got another dog.

Whether a dog will do alright outside by itself a large part of the day depends a lot on its mentality. Some dogs are better able to deal with not having constant pack companionship than other dogs.

If you really want a dog (and I still advise against it), get two.


You're right, some alone time is fine, but extended periods of alone time every day is a big problem.

"And even if you do let the dog inside, what's the minimum amount of time it should be left alone? A few hours was mentioned above, so does that mean it's cruel to leave the dog at home while you go to work?"

I work as a firefighter. We work 24 hour shifts, in addition I have a drive time of about three hours total. I leave my dog in the house, 12 days a month. Never an accident. A lot of people ask me about this and for years I didn't have an answer as to why this is. Then I had an out of work friend and his family stay with me for a few months. I told them to just leave the dog alone, I put him in my bedroom and told them to not bother him. They didn't listen, they tried to feed him, tried to take him outside etc. Turns out, that if I am not home, he will not eat, drink, or go outside for any reason. In fact, he would lie on my bed and would not get off the bed until I came home. He was raised that way, trained if you will, and it works out fine. As the owner of a dog, you have to take the responsibility to train the dog. It won't figure this stuff out by itself any more than a baby would.
Another thing that a lot of people don't punch in to is why dogs are destructive to your stuff. As a puppy, they are like human babies, the want to chew on everything. And they are not house broken. The dog dosn't know any better, just like a child. So, you keep the dog in a cage unless you are giving the dog your undivided attention. If you don't, something bad could happen. As an adult, dogs that are destructive are simply bored. If they are alone, or if they are ignored they entertain themselves by chewing up your stuff, and tearing up your yard. Dogs are intelligent animals. If you put them out in the yards with nothing to do and no companionship, they will get into trouble eventually.

I guess it's all where you live. My dog has the run of the farm and stays outside 24/7. If he wants company he can visit the cows. He is very happy with the arraignment, if not, he is free to go back to being a stray. Yes I do pat him etc. he's my sidekick when I'm outside and he guards the place while I'm inside or gone.

He is a very good watchdog, a good friend, but he is not aloud into my "den" he is a dog, not a human.


You could just as easily say: those who don’t have sufficient land, to let a dog run free, shouldn’t have a dog. It dose seems that most of the inside dogs are obese…it’s a trade off no matter how you look at it, so whose to say he shouldn’t get a dog?

You're right, Horseman, it's a difference of where you live.

Your farm is likely large enough that your dog is stimulated at all times. Enclose him in the typical suburban back yard, with a fence that he can't see through, and an area where he really can't get up much of a head of steam running, or where his view is constantly the same, and you're going to stifle him.

"he is a dog, not a human."

Which is precisely why I like dogs more than humans.

"You could just as easily say: those who don’t have sufficient land, to let a dog run free, shouldn’t have a dog."

Actually, no, those people (and I'm one) should get up off their lazy ing butts and walk their dogs, take them to the dog park if one is available, etc.

Human and dog will be much happier.

I walk my dogs a minimum of twice a day during the week, and at least once on the weekends, which normally also includes at least one trip to the dog park where they can recreate with their friends.

I walk my dogs a minimum of twice a day during the week, and at least once on the weekends, which normally also includes at least one trip to the dog park where they can recreate with their friends.

Click to expand...

Thumbs up!! THAT is how a dog should live!

Regards

Cato

Depends on where you live.

At the moment in a student house in Durham (UK), people behind us have a very large Rottweiler that lives out doors in an enclosed area. Barks like mad a lot of the time, interspersed with some solid growling. Always figured it was at me when I was in the garden. The other day I was climbing a tree that overhangs their garden to trim it down (garden was neglected by previous tenants) and the dog didn't care. That night the kid that lives there came out to talk to me when I was sawing wood in the garden and said that all the barking is for cats. That makes the dog a bit of a nuisance to me, I feel that part of the barking is to try and get the owners indoors attention.

At my house in Kidderminster we have a home dog, soft as hell but barks like an animal possessed when he isn't happy about who is at the door. Genuine pack critter though, doesn't like being on his own for too long.

His parents live with my aunt on a farm on Cornwall (both gundogs) along with his sister, brother, half sister and sisters pups. They all live outdoors and are a pack to themselves, don't need humans. They bark, but no-one else lives within two miles so it doesn't matter.

I figure you need to have a think about why you want a dog. After all who wants a burglar alarm that needs feeding and cleaning up after? modern electronics negate that need. If you want a dog however, that is a different matter.

Strange, how things change. The Rottweiler was used - and developped to its high standards - as a herding dog and was generally kept outdoors, as dogs have been kept until lately.

I have two German Mastiffs and a femal Rottweiler in my yard. The Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training will give you an idea about how to poison-proof you dogs in some extent.

I find Rottweilers hardy and easy to be kept outdoors but would not leave a dog out all alone for the day.

Even though, they are out, our dogs are a part of the family.

The Sargeant sent me out at 40F below to be on guard, that was my reason for being where I was...

Geuss I am in the minority here. I have 'inside' and 'outside ' dogs.

The Lab and Beagle, stay inside, when I am around and even when I am gone mostly.

My Chow/Labs all live outside, I don't think I would have walking room if they were all inside.

All the dogs get plenty of attention and have each to play with when I am working.

I only see an issue with keeping an outside dog if it is the only dog. Good chances it will get bored and tear things up

Hmmm. Our dog spends more time inside the house than outside as a rule. Walks, potty trips, and the occassional rides is all he gets out. We have nice furniture & carpet that is a hair magnet, but the house don't smell like dogs unless he comes in wet, there's the clue for bath time.

I think two dogs to be kept outside wont constitute a pack for them because the leader of the pack is in the house. Dogs are smarter than that. Its a trade off, I think. You can have hair, the occassional mess, and a safe house, or you can have a false sense of security and leave him outside. (I'm not talking landowner here.)

An inside dog just requires more attention. The more he's allowed in, the more he'll learn to exhibit acceptable behavior to the pack. I think that the more you treat him as one of the fam, the more loyal and protective he'll be, b/c he'll really feel like one of the pack. Dogs have emotions too and if you play on this he'll learn faster and be more eager to please. Lots and lots of praise and rewards, and no relenting when he does wrong. Don't let him 'get away with it' when he does something wrong or he'll pick up on it and try to play you for a sucker! (Pack mentality, trying to raise one's status in the pack.) I think thats why a lot of peoples dogs wont listen & obey. They think their the boss b/c they've been allowed to get away with things. Confusing to the dog, frustrating to the owner.

The Shep/Lab that we used to have, would get stood in the corner when he was bad, wipe his feet before he came in the house (!) (This after coming in with wet feet and tracking across the Kit. floor. My wife yelled at him, cleaned it up, and took him out to the doormat and wiped his paws on it and then let him back in. One time. After that he'd always wipe his feet, even if dry outside.) That was extra cool and always freaked people out who came over to visit. "I could swear I just seen your dog wipe his feet before he came in!"

We'd let him on the furniture with us when he was good, and not when he wasn't. If he was real bad, he'd go to the corner just like the kids. You just gotta treat em like family. The more you put into it, the greater the benefits.

Not all dogs are as possessive of their human as are labs. Labs and their cousins retrievers literally own their humans. Strongest bond I've ever seen.

I suggest getting the smallest yapper you can find. Small dogs are a minute fraction of the trouble a larger saddle bearing breed is.

Laso Apso (questionable spelling) was bred to be a body alarm for royalty. Its a long haired, small breed that has considerable noise / pound. My daughter acquired a Laso Poo, the results of an unintended encounter between a Laso and a standard poodle. End result is a dog with short curly hair, does not shed, non-alergine hair formula, makes more noise than you can imagine and is a natural sentinental. I kid you not. This dog positions himself in the house at the only spot where he can watch the front door, back door, and the end door. Only one place that is possible and he found it. He is also the most intelligent dog I've ever seen.

Big dogs help spend the testosterone, but it's the yapper that makes the alarm.