An unpopular fellow

Thanks, I do too. It's a pay cut but I feel like it would be a more rewarding career choice.

You, if you are a cop, are entrusted by the state with powers that an average Joe doesn't have. You're darn right you are held to a higher standard. If you can't figure that out I'd suggest another line of work. There's the old saying, if you can't handle the heat...

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Of course we're held to a higher standard. Now go ahead and read the very next line of my post and we'll take it from there.

A common theme around here is that police officer's shouldn't have any additional powers.

See the double standard? We should be scrutinized but not for any reason in particular.

So let me get this right.

We should be held to a higher standard, but we shouldn't be given any special priveleges because we should be like everyone else.

So we're just your average Joes who are held to a higher standard, which actually would actually make us a persecuted class.

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In a nutshell, yes.

A sworn peace officer has a duty to not only abide by all laws, but also to enforce said laws by issuing citations and/or arresting those who violate them. There are specific procedures to be followed in pursuit of these ends, and if the officer cannot follow these procedures, he has no business being an officer. Likewise, if the officer cannot remain courteous and respectful of the people he deals with, he has no business being an officer.

It's a tough job (and often dangerous), but it's not like you got drafted into it. People have bad things to say about the police because they are the ones who have legal authority to infringe on their rights, and sometimes some police officers infringe on those rights unlawfully, under the guise of it being lawful (mostly because they know they can get away with it).

A peace officer should not have any special privileges. The only thing that separates a peace officer from a normal person is that the peace officer took an oath, and is granted the power of arrest and detainment under broader circumstances than a normal person. They are compensated for their time spent pursuant to this matter.

MASTEROFMALICE said:

So let me get this right.

We should be held to a higher standard, but we shouldn't be given any special priveleges because we should be like everyone else.

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Wrong.

You clearly need special powers to do your job, however you should use those powers only as necessary. You should always remember the reason your job exists, you are there to protect the rights of the people - everything else derives from that.

If you ever find yourself thinking of the general public as your adversaries, that's your cue to resign.

That's what I expect from LEOs.

I don't think of the general public as adversaries, but some people make it really easy to dislike them.

General Geoff, I could not have said that better. Very well done.


-T.

some people make it really easy to dislike them.

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That's fine, officers are human beings too, and not everybody gets along. Nobody asks you to like everyone you're involved with, just that you show them respect and act in a professional manner.



I suppose the underlying problem here is that police officers have far too much on their plate to handle. There are hundreds of thousands of laws, many of which are sure to conflict in many circumstances. Such a patchwork of arbitrary rules leads to the lack of enforcement of many more superfluous laws.

Because of this, officers tend to use their own discretion to lighten their work load and give a break to the average joe who's not hurting anyone, yet they may be violating some silly law.

The root of the problem is not the officers, it's the fact that there are far too many laws.

jnyork, Welcome! Thanks for doing the hard jobs. I hope you like it here, and can add reality to the discussions. Sometimes we get lost in supposition when it comes to police and military matters--a touch or two of "well, I don't know about everywhere, but I can tell you it works in my town" sure helps to clear up a discussion when people's imagination starts getting the better of them. Please, pull up a chair, relax, have a cold one. New guy buys the first round.

A peace officer should not have any special privileges. The only thing that separates a peace officer from a normal person is that the peace officer took an oath, and is granted the power of arrest and detainment under broader circumstances than a normal person. They are compensated for their time spent pursuant to this matter.

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And so we shouldn't have any additional equipment? Perhaps we shouldn't be allowed to put flashing lights on our cars which allow us to exceed the speed limit and circumvent other traffic laws. Is that about right?

And so we shouldn't have any additional equipment?

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Not that I am not allowed to have as well.

Perhaps we shouldn't be allowed to put flashing lights on our cars which allow us to exceed the speed limit and circumvent other traffic laws.

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As needed. You can't just break the speed limit (or any other law) whenever you want. Only when it is necessary.


-T.

so is it still okay to bash the post office? <grin>.

And so we shouldn't have any additional equipment? Perhaps we shouldn't be allowed to put flashing lights on our cars which allow us to exceed the speed limit and circumvent other traffic laws. Is that about right?

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Such equipment is not a special privilege. It is a duty, that you must use such equipment. If it was a privilege, that would imply that you can use it any time you want for any reason you want. Such equipment is there as an aid for you to more efficiently catch and cite people for violating traffic laws.

There are many good cops out there. What taints the entire profession is the "professional courtesy" thing, where cops close ranks to protect their own.

The additional powers needed to do their job are necessary and proper. What isn't necessary is the ability of a cop from Florida on vacation in New York having the ability to carry a weapon to defend himself and his family while I do not. The cop in that situation has no more authority to stop a crime than I do, so he does not need any powers in that situation. What isn't necessary is numerous cops in my area have given rides home to other cops caught DUI.

That is what taints the profession. If good cops turned in the bad ones, it would be a better situation for everyone.

Not that I am not allowed to have as well.

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Exactly what I was looking for.

So my job should be to hunt down the worst of the worst, the most violent offenders, the human predator whos existence is defined by his aggression and lack of morality.......but I should do it on equal footing?

Long story short, you want an underequiped "nice guy" cop to seek out and pleasantly arrest the Hannibal Lecters of the world.

Good luck with that!

well that depends....

were you chaising a golf ball around an air force base for 4 years...

or going on 4 month deployments .... with no comunication home at all.

One will get you respect....the other will get you????

promoted

so is it still okay to bash the post office?

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Yes, the DMV is fair game, too.

Exactly what I was looking for.

So my job should be to hunt down the worst of the worst, the most violent offenders, the human predator whos existence is defined by his aggression and lack of morality.......but I should do it on equal footing?

Long story short, you want an underequiped "nice guy" cop to seek out and pleasantly arrest the Hannibal Lecters of the world.

Good luck with that!

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Nobody said you should be underequipped, just that there should not be a class division with special equipment provided to officers as an exemption from what normal people can have. Thus the end result would be that officers should have the same equipment that is freely available on the open market; what they should also have is top-notch training to utilize such equipment, and the knowledge of when to call for backup.

One Hannibal Lecter does not beat twelve armed officers.

This falls back to the point of punishing people for actions, not for owning harmless inanimate objects.

So my job should be to hunt down the worst of the worst, the most violent offenders, the human predator whos existence is defined by his aggression and lack of morality.......but I should do it on equal footing?

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Yes. If the offender is not a felon, he (I) should be allowed to have any item you have. Batons, weapons, stop strips, even the lights on the car right down to the wigwags.

The difference is that you have been granted the power to use these items in an official capacity to aid you in the completion of your job. I have not. As such, I cannot lawfully use these tools as you can. And even you cannot use them lawfully without a very good reason to do so.

Do not forget that you are a public servant. By choice, I might add.


-T.

Long story short, you want an underequiped "nice guy" cop to seek out and pleasantly arrest the Hannibal Lecters of the world.

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I think the para-military emphasis in the modern LE organizations is mostly a response to officers deciding that they want to go home alive to their wives and kids at the end of the day. And to a lesser degree, a "big boys with big toys" influence.

This could have been made an unnecessary developement if the judicial system had any interest in justice and punishing evil doers.

Thank the ACLU for the emphasis on rights of the criminal...

the cops are just dealing with the mess that has been dealt to them as best as they can.

It seems to me that Master of Malice is deliberately misunderstanding what others are saying.
He seems to like having power over other peoples lives. He seems to love the fact that he can ruin another persons life with just a few words. That kind of person is not the kind the citizens should want enforcing the laws.
The attitude I see him display on this forum make me never to want to know him in person as I have absolutely no tolerance for that kind of person. Of course this is just my opinion, and you are all fully free to ignore me, but I just had to say something about this.

Perhaps I'm not understanding you. Isn't the training available to us also available to anyone who wants it?

Where, again, is the upper hand we're supposed to have over the criminals?

Oh, and if you think cops outnumber criminals you're wrong.

It seems to me that Master of Malice is deliberately misunderstanding what others are saying.
He seems to like having power over other peoples lives. He seems to love the fact that he can ruin another persons life with just a few words. That kind of person is not the kind the citizens should want enforcing the laws.
The attitude I see him display on this forum make me never to want to know him in person as I have absolutely no tolerance for that kind of person. Of course this is just my opinion, and you are all fully free to ignore me, but I just had to say something about this.

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He seems to think you have no idea what you're talking about. If you ever met me in real life you'd never even know I was a cop.

Where, again, is the upper hand we're supposed to have over the criminals?

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Your upper hand is that you're (supposed to be) friends with the rest of us, i.e. the unnamed masses, which are primarily comprised of good people with good intentions.

Oh, and if you think cops outnumber criminals you're wrong.

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If there were fewer laws, perhaps there would be fewer criminals. Why should you have to worry about drug addicts when you could spend your time going after murderers and rapists?

I'm trying to figure out why Hannibal Lector is not going to own an illegal firearm. Law's don't stop the bad guys. They only stop the law abiding citizens.

I remember reading a quote from a DC politician stating that there are no legitimate reasons to have a hand gun in that city. I think all the LEO's in that city beg to differ.

From reading the many posts on this forum for the last few months, I have decided that a fellow who was an Armed Forces recruiter and later became a cop probably shouldnt mention his background here.

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Well, you certainly won't find LEO apologists here like you do at officer.com. I generally try to be supportive of LE, but seeing the attitudes exhibited on the forums there makes it challenging at times. For example, any attempt to duscuss the confiscation of firearms during Katrina is met with "you weren't there, you can't be expected to understand" and any further attempt at dialogue is cut off.