Federal judge to hear challenge to Florida's guns-at-work law

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I can't bring in thumbdrives, cameras, voice recording devices, or a radio with a functional tape recorder. I also can't have firearms on the property. If I violate any of those conditions of employment, I will at the very least, be fired.

You nailed it.

People don't always get that the BoR is a set of limitations on what the government can and cannot do. Many us, if not all of us enter into employment agreements that limit constitutionally protected behavior (freedom of speech, assembly, etc.).

Civil rights actions extend that somewhat based on limited categories of gender, race, national origin, etc - in some sense what people are, not what they do. My employer would face penalties if they fired me because I am a Jew, but probably not if they fired me for showing up at work naked.

Mike
 
I never thought I'd see a time when Americans proclaimed a right of businesses to exploit them and dominate their lives.
 
I live and work in Florida. I keep a gun in my console whenever I drive, largely because I have been attacked while in my car stopped at a traffic light, and have been threatened while getting in and out of my car in parking lots. I don't frequent "bad neighborhoods". These incidents occurred in busy commercial districts - you know, the kinds of places where many people work.

Prohibiting employees from keeping their guns locked in their cars means that they are deprived of their legal means of self-defense for the duration of their travels whenever their daily drive includes a stop at work. Because of the nature of Florida's economy and population distribution, it is not unusual here for people to commute over 50 miles one way to work. That is a lot of mileage to drive disarmed every year. I hope the law stands. It does not stop employers from prohibiting guns in their buildings. It doesn't stop employers from prohibiting employees from taking the guns out of the cars in the parking lot. All it says is that I don't have to go disarmed to and from work.
 
People don't always get that the BoR is a set of limitations on what the government can and cannot do.

I get that perfectly. The law states that an employer cannot prohibit an employee from having a firearm in his car, and there is nothing in the constitution which prohibits the state legislature from passing such a law. Therefore, the law is constitutional and will survive the court challenge.
 
Many people do not understand what it takes to be an employer, let me tell you, it is not easy. there are more restrictions then you can shake a stick at. I beleave a employer has a right to frobid any object they want from thier place of biz. If you don't like it, tough, don't be an employee and/or don't go there.
 
I beleave a employer has a right to frobid any object they want from thier place of biz.

they do have that right, but my car is not their place of business
 
they do have that right, but my car is not their place of business
if you drive it onto my parking lot it is. nothing is stoping you from finding parking at a diffrent location.

Would you want me to drive on your property with a truck load of hazmat?
 
It forces employers to unwillingly allow guns on their property and does absolutely nothing to inhibit legal liability for an illegal act of an employee with a gun in the car.

That's not true! There is an immunity clause. Read the bill:

http://www.flsenate.gov/cgi-bin/vie...tory=session/2008/Senate/bills/billtext/html/

The cry wolf you hear from the FL Chambers of Commerce and the Brady bunch is nothing different than when Florida first established concealed carry, and later on passed the "no duty to retreat" law. It was going to be the Wild West, and blood would flow on the streets. Scare tactics that have no basis in reality.

Sadly, some folks here seem to agree with the Brady's albeit on different grounds.
 
So do all you "employer rights trump everything" crowd think it would be OK if the employer said you can't have a pro-life bumper sticker on your car? Or how about a policy of no heavy metal music CDs in your car while parked on company property?

And just for the record this law will be overturned much like Oklahoma's almost identical law was overturned based on OSHA safety in the work place rules. (still under appeal)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071006_1_A1_hHeis85083

And hey TAB please tell us what your business is so that we may boycott it.
 
If you don't like it, tough, don't be an employee and/or don't go there.

Really:confused: How about if you don't like the laws of Florida and do not respect the right of self-defense, don't be an employer and go get a job in Accounting firm or something.

Many people do not understand what it takes to be an employer, let me tell you, it is not easy. there are more restrictions then you can shake a stick at
Let me get this right, we have to surrender our rights to make it easy and comfortable for the businesses :confused:
 
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My stance on this is that it is a private property issue on both sides. Employers may regulate what is on there property (parking lot, inside buildings), but at the same time, the insides/contents of the vehicles are the EMPLOYEES private property.

I think people being aloud to keep a gun locked in their car, but allowing employers to prohibit them from removing it while on company property is the correct place to draw the line.
 
This Just In- Judge To Rule In July

June 25, 2008

Judge to rule on 'guns at work' in mid-July

BY BILL COTTERELL
FLORIDA TODAY

TALLAHASSEE -- A skeptical federal judge took shots Wednesday at both sides of a new Florida law permitting gun owners to keep weapons locked in their cars while at work, ruefully warning that it may misfire in some "stupid" ways.

U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle said it will be mid-July before he rules on a request by business organizations for a preliminary injunction against the law, which takes effect Tuesday. Hinkle listened to two hours and 20 minutes of arguments on the statute -- a major legislative trophy of the National Rifle Association in the 2008 session -- and peppered attorneys with questions and hypothetical situations.

The Florida Chamber of Commerce and Florida Retail Federation seek to block the law, saying it infringes on the private property rights of employers. Attorney Barry Richard also said it violates federal job-safety laws which require companies to maintain safe workplaces.

Jon Glogau, a special counsel for Attorney General Bill McCollum, and Chris Kise, representing the National Rifle Association, argued that the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms does not evaporate when gun owners go to work. Glogau conceded that the statute is "not a model of clarity," but urged Hinkle to read it as the Legislature intended rather than "stretching" for possible results that aren't likely to occur.

The judge said, for instance, that the law defines an "employee" as a person holding a concealed weapon permit and asked Glogau to consider two restaurants, side by side, each with 15 workers and a public parking lot. If one employee at one restaurant has a concealed-weapon permit but none at the other restaurant has one, Hinkle said, all employees of the first place would be allowed to keep guns in their cars but none at the second place would.
"What rational reason is there to treat those businesses differently?" he said. "Stupid, isn't it?"

Hinkle addressed Richard, too, saying employees with legal guns in their cars might retrieve them in time to stop a crime or to use them for self-defense.
"You're saying it's dangerous to employees, but the others say, 'No, it's safe because somebody could run out to the car and get a gun and shoot the bad guy,'" Hinkle said.

"There is no constitutional right, either in the federal or state Constitution, that guarantees the right to carry firearms on someone else's property," Richard said.

Kise said the Constitution favors individual rights.

"The Constitution does apply in all contexts," said Kise. "We have a Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution says 'We the People,' not 'We the Corporations.'"
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080625/BREAKINGNEWS/80625055/1086/news01
 
Private property does not really exist in the U.S. anyways, everything is the property of some corporation (local, state and also federal governments). Hence the existence of property taxes, building permits, etc., which could not exist if the property were truly privately owned. So the property rights argument fails IMHO.
 
I never thought I'd see a time when Americans proclaimed a right of businesses to exploit them and dominate their lives.

You've seen 4 of these Americans just on this thread.
It is enough to make you weep.
 
uhhhhh, we pay property tax, not because the govt owns our property, but because state must pay for services. While I like your theme towards our victory, lets not repeal the search and seizure protection we still enjoy.

Allodial title versus fee simple. True private ownership of real property does not exist in the U.S. and so the argument fails.
 
Would you want me to drive on your property with a truck load of hazmat?

It wouldn't bother me one bit as long as it was properly stored and/or contained. Leaking barrels should have some sort of overpack, I would hope.
 
It wouldn't bother me one bit as long as it was properly stored and/or contained. Leaking barrels should have some sort of overpack, I would hope.

lets just say in this case, open containers full of asbestos fibers, 15 mph wind. It really makes very little diffrence rather its contained or not... The point is if you want to deny it, you should be able too.



As to prolife bumber sticker ( or any political statement stickers) I don't have to let you car on to my property, so thats a non issue.
 
My husband and I both own businesses in Florida. We would never dream of playing Big Brother with employees the way that some business owners appear to want to. If they are good employees, meaning that they are honest, do their jobs, show up or call in, and don't anger or upset the customers, we certainly wouldn't want to antagonize them by restricting what legal items they keep locked in their cars. Why would employers think that what you keep locked in the car should be any of their business, anyway?

People who have CCW permits in Florida have gone through extensive background checks. They aren't felons. They don't run around shooting up businesses, as a rule. Of course, I guess if I were the kind of person who thought it was my right to go snooping around in my employees' locked trunks and gloveboxes, I might be right to worry that some employee would mistake me for a criminal breaking into a car ...
 
The best part about this debate is that it misses the point entirely of the law. It is perfectly legal for all employees in Florida (with a few exceptions) to carry a concealed weapon at work IN the building, the only consequence being that if discovered they could be fired as it is a right to work (be fired) state. In fact, very few businesses strip search employees (bad for moral I guess) ever, so you would likely be safer carrying a gun on your person than leaving it in your car in present circumstances.

All this law does is protect employees from having their cars searched by an employer anywhere (not just in the employers parking lot), that's right some employers have gone so far as to search vehicles that are not parked on their property!! What you refuse? Guess what you're fired, no recourse, right to work state. In fact, you can be asked, do you smoke tobacco, do you own guns, anything except a very few things covered by the equal opportunity laws, and if you refuse to answer or answer in the affirmative, yep you guessed it, your fired.

This law is actually good for employers as they lose nothing, and gain immunity for the actions of their employees if they happen to use a gun. Remember right now, your employee can carry at work with or without your permission, and you have no civil immunity for their actions.
 
the problem is, a gun in my car means that the gun remains in MY property until i remove it from the car... my car remains my property no matter where i park it unless it is sold, given away or seized by court order...

if they want to control what is in my car, they need to have a secure parking lot with guards and barricades... AND they need to accept all liability for any damages to my car while it is parked there... if they do not do that, then my car and the contents inside are still my property...

thats exactly what i was thinking,
 
LWGN, what about times when CCW would be dangerous to the employee and/or property. For example working from a harness in construction, or working in a power plant where ferrous metals can do alot of damage. Do those people still have a right to CCW?

Also what about those employees that work in places where firearms are illegal, by state or federal law... don't they still have a right to it? Many federal goverment jobs prevent people from having weapons on the grounds... in thier car in the parking lot is on the grounds.

you can't say: its ok for one group to have a weapon, but not ok for others.
 
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