Never again. From my cold, dead hands.

Might I politely suggest that you work on converting others of your ethnic/religious persuasion to your philosophy!

It is really apparent that there's major disconnect with many folks of your background on the issue and that simply should not be.......!

It's great that you feel such a passion for this topic. Most people on this forum share your views. Now use that passion for something good and spread the word.

If you haven't been: www.a-human-right.com

God bless!

Good for you Raystonn. I see your point clearly.

Much of the irrational fear of firearms comes from images, emblazoned into their minds forever, of Nazis using firearms to kill their families. Because the good citizens had already been stripped of firearms, you only saw them at that time as a tool of evil men. Unfortunately, this association remains today. It is very difficult to dislodge associations that are branded into the mind by deep emotional scars.

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I had honestly never really thought of that, and I can see where that would be the case.

For those of us who arent Jews, or who didnt have something like that happen to out families, friends, fellow people's, etc, it seems illogical to be a Jew who is anti-gun, but what you point out makes a lot of ense if you think about it. It isnt even CLOSE to the same as someone who is an "anti" because their nephew, thier friend, etc was hurt or killed by someone with a gun.The scale, and "goal/reasoning" of the Holocost is the key to that difference, IMHO.It still seems illogical to most of us (myself included), but I'll say that because of the difference in the "goal" and scale, it's a lot easier to see why many Jews might be anti-gun.Big difference between "my brother was shot and killed by a mugger, it's the guns fault, I'm anti-gun", and what happened to Jews with the holocost.

Very interesting.Good for you fr sing the light though, and working to help other Jews see it too. You do the a great service IMHO by showing them how, while what was done to them by evil men with guns was horrible and frightening beyond comprehension, that guns are the exact thing that can help them prevent it from ever happening again, to them, or any of us, because who knows, next time it might be whites, or Americans, or women, instead of Jews, so there is a lesson here for ALL of us, Jew and non-Jew alike.

Raystonn, welcome to THR. I think you'll find many fellow MOT here, myself included.

Another MOT checkin' in.

The search function will bring up interesting threads related to the intellectual and emotional posture of many (some) of our people, with respect to firearms.

And seconded - http://www.a-human-right.com/ is a good place to visit.

If you're ever near Houston, PM me and schedule a trip to the range.

Regards,
Andrew

Another Pro-RKBA jew checking in. BTW, whats MOT?

If there ever is another holocaust or nazi-style kicking in of doors, the bad guys will have to trip over .308 casings.

Jews especially should own at least one battle rifle.

Welcome to THR Raystonn!

I am completely with you! As well as everyone else here. I am Chinese. We also suffered genocide at the hands of Japanese imperialists in the 1930s. My grand-uncle was 8th Route Army resistance fighter. He can recount that he himself killed more than 1000 Japanese troops during the war, with grenade, rifle, and the dreadful Chinese ancient martial arts weapon, the Da Dao Broadsword.

That is why I fight for the 2nd Amendment, to make sure any fascists never raise their filthy heads out of their graves, EVER!

Welcome again, Raystonn. We are all comrades here.

If there ever is another holocaust or nazi-style kicking in of doors, the bad guys will have to trip over .308 casings.

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Trip over? You mean BITE the .308 casings.

It's important to convince them to own and bear arms, but it's also important to convince them to vote.
Most people in the U.S. don't vote. A great many already own a firearm.

At a minimum, a plurality of the Jews I know own guns for self-defense.

Immediately after 9/11, a friend's synagog could have put on a gunshow, just with what people were carrying concealed.

Raystonn said:

...Much of the irrational fear of firearms comes from images, emblazoned into their minds forever, of Nazis using firearms to kill their families. Because the good citizens had already been stripped of firearms, you only saw them at that time as a tool of evil men. Unfortunately, this association remains today. It is very difficult to dislodge associations that are branded into the mind by deep emotional scars.

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My wife was born and survived in Santiago, Chile. From 1970 through 1975, she saw a lot of ugly! To her, firearms were the devil's tools. It took me years to get it through to her understanding that firearms are not evil. People are evil.

She get's it now...nearly 24 years married. :banghead: Oh, sorry...wrong icon Nope...not that one either. There we go. Sheesh! Hope she doesn't see this post.

Doc2005

dodging230grainers,

MOT means "member of our tribe."

Regards,
Andrew

Yet another MOT checking in.

MOT means "member of our tribe."

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Nope: it means "Member of the Tribe." Never heard "MOT" used by anyone other than a Jew, or by someone who knew the meaning and used it in reference to a Jew. Otherwise, Arabs and other clannish people would use the term about themselves.

One of my wife's uncles (by marriage) is a survivor. He lost his entire family other than a few very distant cousins who were outside of Europe. He saw his father and brother killed in front of him. But he had the opposite reaction to most of what I call the "ghetto Jews" (the Jews who are afraid of speaking up, or affirmatively defending themselves). He carries a gun with him constantly, practices a lot and has a very fine collection including a couple full autos (and he lives in Mexico, where it is near impossible to find this stuff or to own it legally - but I guess he paid the correct permit fee to the correct official). Oh, and one more thing: after the war, he went back to his old neighborhood in Bialystok, Poland. It seems that the family that identified him and his family as Jews to the SS were living in his family's old house. As one of my wife's cousins phrased it, "They didn't see the next sunrise." I would hope that if, G-d forbid, something like that happened to me, I'd do the same.

This Jew will NEVER, EVER give up his weapons. As a Jew, as an American and as a human being, I have an absolute, unchallengeable right to defend myself, my family, my liberty and my country against any and all comers, from petty thieves to world empires. Eff'em all - they may kill me, this Jew ain't going away for free.

Oh how they hated themselves for not standing up to Hitler as they roasted in the Camps, they could of over whelmed them but didn't. After the war they took all of The Nazi scientists to America to finish their work. Hitler's idea never died, it is alive an well here now in the new "Homeland". Never forget that. All the acts they have instituted here came from there. They parallel what Hitler did to the Jewish people. Will our children hate us in the future for not making a stand? Food for thought from a American.

After the war they took all of The Nazi scientists to America to finish their work. Hitler's idea never died, it is alive an well here now in the new "Homeland". Never forget that. All the acts they have instituted here came from there.

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The Gun Control Act of 1968 was modeled after Hitler's gun restrictions

Jew "by choice" myself. Tried a LOT of other paths, finally found one that I could grok. I grew up around guns. Both my parents grew up around guns. My Father fought in WWII as a US Marine. My older brother was in RVN as a Marine. Shooting outings were a family affair. I just can NOT get my head around the thinking of anti-gun Jews. IMHO; Any Jew who says "never again" and doesn't own a gun is a hypocrite. Any Jew who says "never again" and supports gun control is a collaborator.

Sam Adams,

"Nope: it means "Member of the Tribe.""

I stand corrected, thank you. Never heard it formally defined, just heard it used pretty often and figured I understood.

Interesting responses in this thread - the issue of why some so-called "leaders" of the Jewish community are so anti-gun has been kicked around THR a lot over the years, with more light than heat but I've never been truly satisfied with any particular explanation. Maybe no single explanation will do - maybe there are numerous explanations, just as there are numerous individuals.

I do think that "not fighting back" was a valid survival behavior - for the group, not the individual - in the old world. Fight back against a rowdy mob one day and see your village in ashes the next. Maybe that became so ingrained that the idea of standing up, fighting back, is identified with bringing down unsurvivable wrath. In retrospect, it did not take a trigger like standing up to persecution to bring it down, so we ought to have learned that not fighting back does not work - while fighting back may work if you fight hard enough.

Someone once said that "violence is the last resort of the incompetent" and I think that, like failed situational awareness, once a person has allowed the situation to deteriorate to the point he has to shoot his way out, he needs to look back and figure what he should have done, and when - to short-circuit the danger and avoid having to shoot his way out.

Sorry to ramble so... thanks for setting the definition straight.

Regards,
Andrew

Good thread; excellent topic. Unfortunately, not on-topic for the Legal forum.

Let's try the General forum and see if that's okay...

Raystonn, but what if they pass a law against your right to effectively defend yourself?

-Sans Authoritas

I too am Jewish...a German Jew

Double post, sorry

Cheers,

Not trying to jack this thread - but I've seen a very similar trait in a lot of the "Greatest Generation". I would guess that they saw/did so many totally repulsive things in combat that they too see all guns as evil and remind them of things they saw or did.

An example is my land-lord's father. I rent from an "American of Japanese descent" (and don't make the mistake I did of referring to them with the "hyphonated", PC term - they climbed me like a tree!) Sam, his father, is a veteran of the 442nd with probably more valor awards than I have Air Medals (RVN)

Anyway, my Lady and I were just back from the rifle range and we were unloading the Jeep when Sam saw some of our guns - he went OFF. Screaming and yelling about the guns and how we had to move off the property immediately. He was totally incoherent. Didn't foam at the mouth, but I expected it any time.

I told him that we didn't rent from him, but from his son. Well, it only took him a minute to drag Paul out of the house with Sam still screaming at the top of his lungs about those G-D guns and how he wasn't going to allow them here.

Only time I've ever seen Paul be anything but respectful of his father. He got right in Sam's face and dressed him down about who owned the property and he had no intention in having us move out.

Paul says that Sam won't even look at a gun - much less own any. Paul grew up without ever firing a weapon - until he joined the Air Force.

I guess the demons they got in that war are still haunting them. I also guess that's why we have so many anti's - they passed their hate/fear of guns on to their children.

My father flew bombardment in that war - he has never piloted another plane.
I figure he's got his own demons. God knows, I've got my own - but they involve fire and crashes - not guns or helicopters.

Genlte winds,
cr

I too am Jewish

A German Jew of all things! On my mother's side. Most of her family left Germany before Hitler got to power, the rest died in the camps.

When I think of people like Nancy Pelosi or the Brady's, I can only think of Fascists in the past and how they always start by disarming the people. Sure, today's Liberal-Fascists don't have the racial hatred that Hitler did, but they're Fascists nonetheless. I am sickened that as the world begins to embrace capitalism and democracy, we here in America turn increasingly facist...exactly the forces we fought to defeat in so many past wars. I will not worship the state and I will not stand for the Nanny culture so many of today's Liberals (Facists, really) espouse.

Truth is, I'm a Jew by birth, an Aethiest by choice but I have learned from my people's past, which is part of the reason I call myself a Libertarian. Either way, I KNOW the reason for the 2nd ammenmend and it's got nothing to do with duck hunting.

They slaughtered hundreds of thousands if not more with firearms. It was a HUGE genocide, ofcourse they (jews) would hate firearms. Many american jews do hate guns, many jews in the middle east LOVE firearms.