Travis McGee
Member
Tell him that he's lucky he wasn't shot as a home invader. Knock or ring the darn bell. DON'T just walk in, EVER!
I was almost involved in 2 shootings (part 2 of 2)
- Thread starter Eric F
- Start date
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rainbowbob said:
You nailed it - the casual acceptance of killing a completely innocent human being leads to be to believe that the original post was bogus.
I'll be honest - I wonder if the original post was an anti troll. The whole story is a poster for the Brady Campaign. What is the strongest argument against the use of handguns for self-defense in the home? That you'll shoot a relative or friend of you kids by accident.
The original post sounds like a paint-by-numbers story produced by the Brady Campaign.
Mike
rainbowbob
Member
Eric F is no "anti troll". But I think the Brady Bunch probably loves reading these kinds of posts nonetheless.
Ignition Override
Member
The father-in-law, or better yet, your wife, should find an old article about the Louisiana father who heard unexpected footsteps after midnight about 10 years ago.
His daughter had come home totally unannounced and the father assumed that the sounds were from an unarmed intruder. He only saw/heard a figure in the dark (knowing that his wife was behind him in bed) and quickly shot his only daughter in the throat. Her last words reportedly were "I love you Daddy".
Your father-in-law is/was (?) not only a 1,000% ignoramus clod but also:
1) was somehow lacking basic, common manners and
2) has little respect for his in-law's privacy.
Is it safe to assume that he was sober?
His daughter had come home totally unannounced and the father assumed that the sounds were from an unarmed intruder. He only saw/heard a figure in the dark (knowing that his wife was behind him in bed) and quickly shot his only daughter in the throat. Her last words reportedly were "I love you Daddy".
Your father-in-law is/was (?) not only a 1,000% ignoramus clod but also:
1) was somehow lacking basic, common manners and
2) has little respect for his in-law's privacy.
Is it safe to assume that he was sober?
Lots of new posters here. Any one of which could be a Brady Bunch mole. Well within the realm of possibility.
And to those who just can't resist telling me to take off the tin foil hat all I've got to say is:
Have you sent in your annual contribution yet? The Brady Bunch is already begging really, really hard.
paramedic70002
Member
Forget the push button keyless entry. Anybody can remember a code. Go for fingerprint ID with key backup, and you have the only key, or the new key fobs that work like car remotes.
Get a restraining order! Hahahahaha!
Get a restraining order! Hahahahaha!
jerkface11
Member
Eric was almost shot a couple of days before this. Of course he was a bit jumpy. His father in law should have knocked and should not have come into the house without permission. Eric did nothing wrong. After all he pointed a gun at a person who was in his home without permission. He didn't hurt anyone he didn't even break a law. The very same people criticizing him for drawing his gun and acting in this situation criticized him for NOT acting in the other shooting. Get off his back.
rainbowbob
With that said I was ready to put a hole in the target until I saw the target was my FIL thats the bueaty of the situation You dont have to pull the trigger when you realize the traget is a nonthreat! I think it is you who are dangerous in by twisting and manipulating the conversation into trying to make me look like a bad guy.
Yeah and keep looking into my other posts you will also find that I had a para that I carried with a 12 oz. trigger in the past also. I have been carrying light triggers and training with them for about 15-16 years now and have never had an accidental discharge. Say what you want I have never had a problem with light triggers on a 1911 as long as the job was done right, I have seen a few that were not done right so you have to either do it yourself or have a compitent gunsmith do it and not many will. And your whole could have been the worst day of my life statement well what ever I did not shoot so no big deal. I have had very few bad days in my life and it is kept that way be mental position in life and knowing what I am doing and not pulling the trigger is covered by both.
The moral of this particular post is Identify your trage before you shoot over all.
RPCVYemen
Hey rainbowbob let me introduce one of your tactics right back to you.
rainbowbob
How so common Lets play the word game and micro pic everything until it gets twisted into what ever your looking for it to say.
With that said I was ready to put a hole in the target until I saw the target was my FIL thats the bueaty of the situation You dont have to pull the trigger when you realize the traget is a nonthreat! I think it is you who are dangerous in by twisting and manipulating the conversation into trying to make me look like a bad guy.
Yeah and keep looking into my other posts you will also find that I had a para that I carried with a 12 oz. trigger in the past also. I have been carrying light triggers and training with them for about 15-16 years now and have never had an accidental discharge. Say what you want I have never had a problem with light triggers on a 1911 as long as the job was done right, I have seen a few that were not done right so you have to either do it yourself or have a compitent gunsmith do it and not many will. And your whole could have been the worst day of my life statement well what ever I did not shoot so no big deal. I have had very few bad days in my life and it is kept that way be mental position in life and knowing what I am doing and not pulling the trigger is covered by both.
Absolutly not I really dont need a slap on the back from any one to make me feel better 8 hours of sleep playing with my daughter and doing what I do work fine for me thanks for the concern.
The moral of this particular post is Identify your trage before you shoot over all.
again atacking me well no not really but picking apart my post until you get the answer you are looking for is what you are doing.
Yeah look at that one your self! Infact why dont you tell us all how you treat people unexpectedly walking into your home unanounced and with out permission Had my fatherinlaw been a bg with a knife or a gun and I did shoot him would you be saying great job or maybe and more likely would it be you bastard you just gave the anti's more ammunition be defending your home with a pistol.Please I envite you to tell us all what should I have done do that instead of just saying everything I have done is wrong........PLEASE INSTRUCT ME OH GREAT ONE!So lets go ahead and agree with you so you can move on with your life. Should you have a finger on the trigger when there is an uknown threat ok for you and you only NO! Will I have my finger on the trigger again next time.......maybe but every situation is diffrent. There you go I did it are you satisified now?
RPCVYemen
Have you read the whole thing? Did you see where FIL was not suposed to come into my locked home? That makes him not completely innocent.
Hey rainbowbob let me introduce one of your tactics right back to you.
rainbowbob
After all you posted you liked this statement in a diffrent thread right? So therefore you think that if a homeowner defends themselves WE ALL LOOSE.
rainbowbob
Member
For the record: I agree that the first incident would have made anybody jumpy. I did not crticize the OP for anything he did or did not do in that event.
However, I did suggest that pointing a gun at his FIL - with his finger on a 2lb, 2oz trigger - was poor form and could very easily have ended in a tragedy that would have had horrific consequences for the OP and his family.
The OP and others repeatedly insist there is nothing wrong with pointing a gun at someone you don't mean to shoot with your finger on a 2lb trigger. He remarks that shooting his FIL would have been justifed. And he believes such a shooting wouldn't have been a disastrous and defining moment that would have changed his life for the worse - forever.
I think he is wrong about that.
I also believe we owe it to each other to critique each other's actions if we see something in a post that seems glaringly dangerous. I have personally learned some valuable lessons and insights from reading such criticism of my own actions, as well as that of others.
When we experience a high-stress incident such as described in this and many other posts at THR, it is often difficult for the OP to be objective about what happened. Objective criticism can often be instructive and even life-changing for those willing to consider the feed-back they are being offered.
I expect you High Roaders to get on my back (and you have) when I post about something I did that was less than wise. And I'll do the same for you if I can.
This is a high-stakes game. Cheerleaders might make you feel better - but if all you listen to are the cheers - you might miss out on some good coaching.
loop
Member
The OP ran like a scared little girl when there was actual gunfire at an unfamiliar location.
Then, on his home turf, he has finger on trigger before he has a target. Then his target is his father-in-law.
If there ever was a candidate for "not allowed to own a gun," the OP is it.
Gun fight you run. Father-in-law you fight with your wife - after you point your gun, finger on trigger, at the man your wife respects more than any other man in the world.
Great judgment.
Sell your guns. You won't use them when someone is actually shooting, but you will point them, finger on trigger, at family members.
Sell your guns or grow up.
You point a gun at a threat. You put your finger on the trigger AFTER you have identified the threat.
Respond to me when you have matured. I would have beaten you to a pulp if I were your father-in-law.
Addendum: learn to spell.
Then, on his home turf, he has finger on trigger before he has a target. Then his target is his father-in-law.
If there ever was a candidate for "not allowed to own a gun," the OP is it.
Gun fight you run. Father-in-law you fight with your wife - after you point your gun, finger on trigger, at the man your wife respects more than any other man in the world.
Great judgment.
Sell your guns. You won't use them when someone is actually shooting, but you will point them, finger on trigger, at family members.
Sell your guns or grow up.
You point a gun at a threat. You put your finger on the trigger AFTER you have identified the threat.
Respond to me when you have matured. I would have beaten you to a pulp if I were your father-in-law.
Addendum: learn to spell.
jrfoxx
Member
The thing is, until he saw who it was, he didnt know it was someone he "didnt mean to shoot". It's not like he was sitting at the BBQ and decided to whip out the gun and point it at someone he could already see and identify.
Ever see LEO/military do a felony stop, or clear a building? In all the video I have ever seen,they sure dont keep thier guns holstered or even pointed at the ground or the ceiling while they are doing it.They have them leveled and ready to fire. By your definition, they are all doing it wrong, as they will end up pointing a gun at someone they may end up not needing to shoot. I suspect there is a reason they are all trained to do it the way that they do, as opposed to what you seem to be suggesting. My guess, is that it's because when you are in a situation where you dont know who is there, where they are, and what kind of threat they may be,but certainly arent expecting them to be "friendlies", that having the gun pointed at the ground when you encounter them, is liable to get you killed, as it will take extra time to level the gun, aim, and fire.
So, I think having the gun up, and ready to go, was just fine.As far as having a finger on the trigger, I can see the up and down sides to that detail, and dont know what LEO/military training is on that specific fact, so I wont say which is right or wrong (as if all situations were always black and white anyways).In most situations, the rule is dont put your finger in the trigger guard until you are about to fire, but it's a little different when you are at the range, or hunting, or carrying you gun from one place to another, VS KNOWING you are 1 second away from an encounter with an unknown intruder, who may be armed, and willing to kill you.
just my opinion though.never been in a situation where I even thought I may need to use my gun, nor am I LEO or military trained in house clearing, or dealing with potentially hostile/armed suspects.
Rich K
Member
My daughter has a key to my house. She often comes over when I am hhome, and ALWAYS knocks or CALLS to let me know she is there. She never enters my home unannounced. It is called respect.
Eric's father in law was wrong 100%, and is very fortunate he wasn't shot in the process.
Eric's father in law was wrong 100%, and is very fortunate he wasn't shot in the process.
loop
Member
Did you read the OP? How he ran away when there was gunfire?
Let me see, "I run from gunfire, but I point a gun at family members."
I wear a gun while a wash dishes, but I only respond when I hear noises in my house?
I am a first responder. I am a fire fighter. I fear nothing, except my father in law's squeaky noises.
Let me see, "I run from gunfire, but I point a gun at family members."
I wear a gun while a wash dishes, but I only respond when I hear noises in my house?
I am a first responder. I am a fire fighter. I fear nothing, except my father in law's squeaky noises.
Obviously you did not read my OP at all either. I never ran from a gun fight. I retreated back to my origional position until the gunfight was, what I thought, over then I ran so I never ran from a gun fight. None the less its better than getting involved with it.
Do you not respont to noises in your house?
As far as that goes
fire can be a dangerous thing I have equipment to help me protect myself.
Intruders in my house can be a dangerous thing I have equipment to protect myself.see how that works?
both do not go with out fear. I have been in many fires and have been scared a few times. I did not know it was my father in law entering my house unexpectedly there fore he was treated as an unexpected intruder. Had he called out called the house phone first knocked or other wise let me know it was him I would have has a fit but not drawn my gun.
follow yor own advice
like wise good judgement beat the guy up that has a gun pointed at you....right!
I have never fought with my wife we tend to agree most of the time and once again we have agreed on how to handle this situation
um I did use my gun again see below
learn to read before you put your foot in your mouth
bottom line 3 guys on here think I did the wrong thing..........that carries about zero weight with me fifteen or so folks think I did the right thing that carries a little weight.........I did what I thought was right the outcome is good no one got hurt I made my point that carries all the weight in the world with me. Loop folks like you should have never been introduced to the internet. like rainbowbob please instead of flapping the keyboard tell us what you would have done.
Apple a Day
Member
Okay, there seem to be a lot of different opinions about how much fault goes in which direction.
If it's come down to taunting
Then there's really not much DISCUSSION going on. Step back. Deep breath. I don't see much point in continued bickering.
E F. I would be interested in hearing your FIL's response and how he behaves later.
Everybody spread love.
If it's come down to taunting
and ignoring other people's replies to your post
Then there's really not much DISCUSSION going on. Step back. Deep breath. I don't see much point in continued bickering.
E F. I would be interested in hearing your FIL's response and how he behaves later.
Everybody spread love.
Wow, I'm amazed at how this thread has devolved.
I'm particularly "impressed" by loop's comments:
What is your problem?
****************
Anyway, I don't know why this has become such a pissing match. It all seems pretty simple to me - Op hears a noise in his house and suspects that SOMEONE is in the house. Knowing the house was locked and the whereabouts of his immediate family (the only people that should be entering the premises) he grabs his gun to check the noise turns the corner and there's the intruder, which happens to be his FIL. OP does NOT shoot him but lowers the weapon, makes it safe, and "holsters" it in his waistband.
The FIL was expected to come to the house and pick up stuff OUTSIDE but did not have permission to enter the house. Turns out the FIL had let himself in the house with the spare key he had been given. However, being given a key to hold for emergencies like someone getting locked out does not equate to permission to use the key to enter the locked residence any time he feels like it.
The FIL should never have entered the house without permission. Period. Everything else that occurred stemmed from that action. My father has a key to my house and I have one to his BUT we don't let ourselves in without an invitation and even when we are invited we announce ourselves upon entry. If I let myself into his home without invitation and unannounced I would not be at all surprised to find dear old Dad pointing a gun at me AND I'm sure I'd get a good scolding for almost getting myself shot.
On more than one occasion I have heard noises in my house and armed myself before going to check the source, the only difference between me doing that and what the OP did is that I don't clear with my finger on the trigger but that is how I have been trained. If he does it some other way that is up to him.
I'm particularly "impressed" by loop's comments:
What is your problem?
****************
Anyway, I don't know why this has become such a pissing match. It all seems pretty simple to me - Op hears a noise in his house and suspects that SOMEONE is in the house. Knowing the house was locked and the whereabouts of his immediate family (the only people that should be entering the premises) he grabs his gun to check the noise turns the corner and there's the intruder, which happens to be his FIL. OP does NOT shoot him but lowers the weapon, makes it safe, and "holsters" it in his waistband.
The FIL was expected to come to the house and pick up stuff OUTSIDE but did not have permission to enter the house. Turns out the FIL had let himself in the house with the spare key he had been given. However, being given a key to hold for emergencies like someone getting locked out does not equate to permission to use the key to enter the locked residence any time he feels like it.
The FIL should never have entered the house without permission. Period. Everything else that occurred stemmed from that action. My father has a key to my house and I have one to his BUT we don't let ourselves in without an invitation and even when we are invited we announce ourselves upon entry. If I let myself into his home without invitation and unannounced I would not be at all surprised to find dear old Dad pointing a gun at me AND I'm sure I'd get a good scolding for almost getting myself shot.
On more than one occasion I have heard noises in my house and armed myself before going to check the source, the only difference between me doing that and what the OP did is that I don't clear with my finger on the trigger but that is how I have been trained. If he does it some other way that is up to him.
XD Fan
Member
The ugliness of some responses is unwarranted and inappropriate. Back off people. Critique, but be courteous.
A lot of guys here seem to be all ate up with following the 4 rules.
Good rules to follow at the range, or in any non-threatening environment.
But if you're in a life threatening situation blindly following rules 2 and 3 could get you killed.
I for one am no Jerry Miculek. I didn't have lightening reflexes when I was younger and they've slowed considerably now that I'm older. I'm not going to wait to point my gun until I've identified the target. It's gonna be up and ready. I for one am not going to wait to put my finger on the trigger until I'm ready to shoot.
Seconds count. The OP didn't do anything wrong in my opinion. To those who think he did - you are of course free to handle a similar situation any way you want. Here's hoping when you find your self in one it isn't the real deal with a real bad guy who has a real gun and he's intending to kill you with it because you slower guys may not have time to follow rules 2 and 3.
Good rules to follow at the range, or in any non-threatening environment.
But if you're in a life threatening situation blindly following rules 2 and 3 could get you killed.
I for one am no Jerry Miculek. I didn't have lightening reflexes when I was younger and they've slowed considerably now that I'm older. I'm not going to wait to point my gun until I've identified the target. It's gonna be up and ready. I for one am not going to wait to put my finger on the trigger until I'm ready to shoot.
Seconds count. The OP didn't do anything wrong in my opinion. To those who think he did - you are of course free to handle a similar situation any way you want. Here's hoping when you find your self in one it isn't the real deal with a real bad guy who has a real gun and he's intending to kill you with it because you slower guys may not have time to follow rules 2 and 3.
I'll echo what WC145 said.
But I wanted to add this:
Guys, while everyone is commenting on the trigger control, we are missing the primary issue: The FIL coming in the house and the response.
This is a fact that you may not like, but it is what it is. Trigger control? Well, it his house, he can put his finger whereever he wants. It may not be the safest way of doing things, and accidents very well could happen. Hell, he could pick his nose with the barrel of a handgun if he wanted to do so.
This, in NO way, eclipses the fact that he had an intruder-- even if it was his FIL who is a twit. He responded. This situation would not have even existed if the FIL had more than 2 neurons bouncing an electron between them for a brain.
I suppose that it would somehow be my fault if you entered my house uninvited and I forgot to put away my shoes causing you to fall and break your leg.
When we are placing fault, its a good idea to start at the beginning.
-- John
But I wanted to add this:
Guys, while everyone is commenting on the trigger control, we are missing the primary issue: The FIL coming in the house and the response.
This is a fact that you may not like, but it is what it is. Trigger control? Well, it his house, he can put his finger whereever he wants. It may not be the safest way of doing things, and accidents very well could happen. Hell, he could pick his nose with the barrel of a handgun if he wanted to do so.
This, in NO way, eclipses the fact that he had an intruder-- even if it was his FIL who is a twit. He responded. This situation would not have even existed if the FIL had more than 2 neurons bouncing an electron between them for a brain.
I suppose that it would somehow be my fault if you entered my house uninvited and I forgot to put away my shoes causing you to fall and break your leg.
When we are placing fault, its a good idea to start at the beginning.
-- John
XD Fan
Member
Well put, JWarren.
Loop, why would he get involved in a gun fight that he had nothing to do with. A CCW is for self defence not to go out and defend a posible drug dealer or murderer. you are just trying to get his goat and is not the way of the Highraod. This can be said for many of you and should knock it off. When he pulled his gun in his own house, that is his God given right. I don't care if he took a crap in his hand and was going to through it at the intruder, its his house and if he hears a squeak in the floor, he can pull out his bazzoka as far as the law is concerned.
Who cares if the gun has a -300 pound trigger pull, Who cares if the gun pulls its own trigger when pointed. He felt theatened and protected his self and home.
Many of you are making yourselfs out to look not so bright.
By the way I am as left wing as they come and I say Eric F did nothing wrong.
Who cares if the gun has a -300 pound trigger pull, Who cares if the gun pulls its own trigger when pointed. He felt theatened and protected his self and home.
Many of you are making yourselfs out to look not so bright.
By the way I am as left wing as they come and I say Eric F did nothing wrong.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
This thread has degenerated and gotten into the 'round and 'round and'round chase through the boonies; too wretched to deal with on a Sunday. Go watch TV or something...
Art
Art
Some of you will be getting PMs for uncivil behavior and name-calling.
Some won't be around THR tomorrow.
It might do everyone a lot of good to reread the Forum Rules occasionally and always keep in mind that you're supposed to attack the argument and not the individual.
Some won't be around THR tomorrow.
It might do everyone a lot of good to reread the Forum Rules occasionally and always keep in mind that you're supposed to attack the argument and not the individual.
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