WA State AFL issue, FBI "fumbling the ball"

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Waverace: Could you please PM both me and MD_Willington on this issue? We need an open line of communication on this issue to make sure that this can be planned out.

I myself have no standing to challenge this law. Waverace and MD_Willington do. The licensing ITSELF is completely unconstitutional, even if they were being issued. The way to attack this is an equal protection lawsuit. Chan v. City of Troy, People v. Rappard, and a few other cases can throw out the entire licensing law (RCW 9.41.170 I believe it is).

Chan v. City of Troy

People v. Rappard
 
Ideally if we could get everyone who has been denied the license to join the appeal, having a large group appearing as plaintiffs may be beneficial.. but IDK, I'm not a lawyer...
 
Ive not actually applied for one i just called the office , do you think i should apply even though i know i'm not going to get one ?
 
You can certainly apply, but I'm not sure why it would be helpful. It's prima-facie unconstitutional. You can't treat permanent resident aliens differently from citizens when it comes to gun issues.
 
well as far as I am aware both ,
The Bill of Rights
and
The Constitution
apply to all people on US soil under US jurisdiction.
SOOOO unless we are not classed as people then it should apply to us too , including but not limited to the second , I dont think that I need to quote that here as I'm sure everyone has it memorized lol
 
Well anyone paying attention, don't apply for an AFL...

Read the attached PDF...


If you apply for a WA State AFL, DOL will send your money back, When they figure out how they will do that, :scrutiny:

Everyone that has applied, fill out the form and get your money back, better yet fill it out and hope some news outlet ppicks up on their incompetence.

In other words

"Stop bugging the DOL, here's your money back when we figure out how to send it to you, shut your yaps."

:cuss:
 

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?????

dunno if i'm just misinterpreting your post here are you just being sarcastic or do you really mean that we should not put up some sort of resistance :scrutiny:
 
Oh no, we should definitely fight this...


DOL is just passing the buck here and trying to write off the issue...


It is not about getting money back for me... I want this fixed !
 
Phew!!!

Thank all that is good for that , did you see my post in activism/planning ? ;)
 
Ref nov 5th

yeah its a good ironic date dont wanna end up like mr Fawkes though :what:
 
Certainly DOL is fumbling the ball. The problem is that the underlying statute is flatly unconstitutional and should be challenged.

If someone can contact that representative Mark....whatever his name here, and find out who the Czech guy is.
 
Nov 5th history lesson (brief)

For those of you who dont know here is a brief outline of what Nov 5th means to us Brits ,
A man named Guy Fawkes and a group of (patriots ?) were unhappy with the British parliment so they made a plan to smuggle a whole bunch of gunpowder into the basement of the houses of parliment with the view to blowing it up ,they were (unfortunately ?) discovered and the whole gang were hung, drawn and quartered , since then this has been known as the gunpowder plot and every Nov 5th we have Guy Fawkes night where we build bonfires on top of which is a dummy or scarecrow meant to represent mr Fawkes and we shoot off fireworks in (celebration ?) of this historical event .:rolleyes:
 
Here ya go, these are my local Reps, all 3 up for re-election too.

**********************************************************
Senator Mark Schoesler
Republican Floor Leader
(R) 9th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT
Olympia Office:
110 Irv Newhouse Building
PO Box 40409
Olympia, WA 98504-0409
(360) 786-7620
Fax: (360) 786-1999
(509) 659-1909
[email protected]


Rep. Steve Hailey
Assistant Minority Whip
(R) 9th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT
Olympia Office:
438 John L. O'Brien Building
PO Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504-0600
(360) 786-7942

District Office:
111 F Street
Cheney, WA 99004
(509) 235-8722

(509) 265-4282
[email protected]

Rep. Joe Schmick
(R) 9th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT
Olympia Office:
419 John L. O'Brien Building
PO Box 40600
Olympia, WA 98504-0600
(360) 786-7844

(509) 879-2078
[email protected]

*********************************************************

Cathy McMorris Rogers
Washington, DC
1708 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
phone: 202-225-2006
fax: 202-225-3392

District Offices
10 North Post, 6th Floor
Spokane, WA 99201
phone: 509-353-2374
fax: 509-353-2412

555 South Main Street
Colville, WA 99114
phone: 509-684-3481
fax: 509-684-3482

29 S. Palouse Street
Walla Walla, WA 99362
phone: 509-529-9358
fax: 509-529-9379
 
Noob

Good day! I surfed in on a web search and registered today as this particular topic is of interest to me as my wife is an immigrant from Panama.
Anyhoo,I work for Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration (airport screeners), and we have a similar problem dealing with the airport police department. I am a federal officer, but we are not classified as a law enforcement officer, therefore when the PD runs a background check, they cannot share the results with us even though it is a reporting requirement for us to the big giant head in DC. We had to create nationwide a TSA Law enforcement officer position so we can legally receive this information via a this liaison.
How can we get a DOL person to be declared a Law enforcement officer so they can do the background checks via the FBI? If we could, would this work?
Or, get the DOL out of the business all together and have the sheriff's office do all the checks, as they do with the concealed pistol licenses?
There is more than one way to skin a cat, as my grandfather was fond of saying..;)
 
welcome opiemuyo,
If you read through the rest of the posts on this subject the DOL has already got a state ammendment passed that technically allows it to recieve this information but the FBI are still refusing to cooperate whether this is because they have a hidden agenda (when dont they ?) or there is just some anti gun /anti immigrant liberal in charge of that operation we dont know and probably never will .
As to any other possibility , as it stands we have to wait until state law changes are made which might not be till next year if at all , until then all we can do is try and make the folks in charge see how many law abiding responsible people are affected by this and explain in a calm fashion (see my post "AFL awareness day") that we are not happy with the situation and that we will not just go away .
The other possibility is that either directly or due to being arrested that someone brings this to court , this would be great (not for the poor schmuck that has to do it) because if won it would set a couple of of important precedents ;
1. it would affirm legal residents rights under the constitution and the bill of rights .
2. (most important for everyone else) it would set a good precedent against licencing firearms owners period ...
also in some small way it might set a precedent against states setting up they're own unconstitutional gun laws , (AWB's, CCW bans the list goes on)
there are some strong feelings here both from citizens that understand that we are fellow shooters regardless of where we were born and from us legal permanent residents ourselves .
I would urge anyone out there who has concerns over gun rights , regardless of your views on immigration (that is so off topic here) to join with us on this .
you are entitled to your opinion on immigration fully 100% just not here please , there are other forums for that .WE are not the ENEMY !! we are fellow shooters that are being wronged .
 
Or, get the DOL out of the business all together and have the sheriff's office do all the checks, as they do with the concealed pistol licenses?

Anyone worth their salt would have done this in the first place.

opiemuyo, sounds like you have personal experience with the "my little kingdom, I don't share" attitude that is quite prevalent within the different agencies here in the US.

I have experienced this first hand as well.

Originally while I researched the issue of the AFL back in 2001-2002 I called FBI, BATF, Local Police, Local DOL, Border Patrol and finally someone at the Border patrol put me in contact with the WA State DOL... and that is how I applied for my original AFL...

No wonder all sorts of illegal stuff goes on, some times deliberate, some times accidentally due to people not knowing or getting the "I'm just passing the buck" from agencies.

I know this is not the case for everyone that works within these agencies, seems like for the most part, .GOV agencies don't exactly want to make it very user friendly!
 
I was allowed to shoot this

:neener:When I was younger I was in the British Army They considered me ok to play with one of these....Can I get a concealed carry permit for a 120mm ?
 

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I have said it before and I will say it again, this is obviously an anti gun/anti immigrant gun grab. I am more sure of it now then ever before, since the FBI is still refusing to cooperate.

Our representatives need to call the DOJ and complain about this. WE need to call the DOJ to complain about this.

Regardless of wether you qualify for citizenship in a couple years or not, this is unconstitutional and just wrong. We need to fight this.

And for those of you who think qualifying for citizenship in a few years is your solution, think again. There is a 3-5 year backlog of citizenship applicants...you heard that right, it will take at least 3-5 years from the day you apply....
 
Enough talk

Ok so this has been batted around quite a bit so what can we actualy do ?
Lonnie would be a good guy to have on board hes already well known due to his support on concealed carry (he's even named in police training circulars !)
I can be fairly eloquent when I need to be but my handwriting sucks ! other than that letters seem to have the same effect as phone calls ... none !
Has anybody out there other than the czech guy actually had any legal action on this ? Ive done some searching but cant even find him .
My wife wont let me go off on a one man crusade on this either something about having a wife and kids to look after :rolleyes:, but I will definately add my name and voice to the numbers if we can get a class action going or something similar.
By the way MD just get me the paperwork for the 120mm and let me worry about the logistics :D
 
sorry Lonnie

Sorry Lonnie me bad:eek:
Would love it if you jumped on board with us though :D
people v zerillo ..... heres another case that upholds like chan v troy that we have rights under the 14th :neener:
 
lawsuit

I had my application resubmitted to the DOL by a lawyer earlier this year, hoping this might help. It did not.
I also contacted a number of representatives without any result.
I truly doubt that any of our representatives is really interested in resolving the issue. Our number is simply too small that anyone would care. If I remember correctly, the DOL issued less than 200 AFL per year, compared to several thousand CCP. Most of those people whose AFL expire are probably not too interested in sticking their neck out and risk to be deported a felons.
The cost of a lawsuit could easily reach 10 grand or more. Even if we win, the state may simply appeal it.
Nevertheless, a lawsuit may be the only way out of this.

So, who is interested in spending some money for the cause ?
 
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