What if this had gone further than just words?

JWarren,

I believe you summed up my thoughts on the subject pretty nicely. It's very simple for a lot of people to just say "drive away and run the light problem solved", but let's look at that shall we?

Even if you are the first car with no one in front of you just hitting the gas in a panic and running a red light is not the greatest idea in the world. Traffic lights turn red for a very good reason, because cars are travelling in the other direction and don't expect to stop. If I have a highly aggitated attacker that just got out of his vehicle coming at me I'm not going to take my eyes off of him to look both ways and make sure I'm clear to run a red light.

In the time it takes for you to see if the roadway is clear he could have closed the distance and already be attacking you. After all if he's already next to you it's not like he's got a long way to go.

Therefore just blowing the redlight and driving away isn't the simple easy solution that many here present it to be.

IMO if you have an active threat that is closing the distance to you I would not recommend averting your attention from the situation. Even if you started to drive away....if the attacker has a gun you are not magically out of range and are in no position to anticipate his attack.

If I were in that situation I would first give a verbal warning using a command presence for the attacker to return to his vehicle. If he continued on I would draw my firearm and give him another verbal and visual command to stop. If he continues to attack then he just becomes another example of Darwin in action. I would not put others in danger by blowing through a red light and possibly crashing thereby injuring or killing an innocent person.

Leave the a** in the street

Drive away. The guy was a jerk and probably has real issues but killing is not easy nor is it the solution. Drive away and let it go.........remember that if you draw it means you plan to shoot, if you shoot shoot to kill, every situation is different but you should go to the gun only when there is no escape. P.S. No shoot out ends friendly

Only foolish people get shot or shoot in traffic altercations. It is so expensive either way.

Only foolish people get shot or shoot in traffic altercations. It is so expensive either way.

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It's not foolish to defend yourself. The only "foolish" thing is if you do something to initiate or escalate a bad situation. And even then, it's not foolish to defend yourself against the unjust aggressor. Even if his out-of-control aggression was sparked merely by which direction you were looking.

-Sans Authoritas

to quote a wise man a good run beats a bad stand

No doubt. And a good run beats a good stand, if it is possible. One is not always obliged to run, even if one can run.

-Sans Authoritas

Though often given as advice on gun forums, running away is not always the answer. I've never done it and here I am still alive. It can make a situation go out of control just as easily as standing up for one's self. And it generally provokes the other person to do the same thing again to someone else.

Gangsta-looking white kid in a Honda Accord with a preppy-looking girlfriend driving? I would have figured, "poseur gangsta-wanabee". The guy was all bluff and bluster, he figured you'd crumble up and get all emo, "Oh, please, Mr. Gangsta, don't hurt me," because that's how everyone he knows would react to that kind of noise. He was trying to impress Girlfriend with Rich Daddy. What a loser. Thoughts on the condition of his Fruit of the Looms after he saw the Glock? Girlfriend with Rich Daddy once they're out of sight: "Like, oh my God, what is that smell?"

extenuate


I suspect you meant "escalate" ...I didn't teven think "extenuate" was a word...

Main Entry: ex·ten·u·ate
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈsten-yə-ˌwāt, -yü-ˌāt\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ex·ten·u·at·ed; ex·ten·u·at·ing
Etymology: Latin extenuatus, past participle of extenuare, from ex- + tenuis thin — more at thin
Date: 1529
1 aarchaic : to make light of b: to lessen or to try to lessen the seriousness or extent of by making partial excuses : mitigate <extenuating circumstances> cobsolete : disparage
2 aarchaic : to make thin or emaciated b: to lessen the strength or effect of

My, it has been a long day, hasn't it? Thank you kindly.

-Sans Authoritas

Cound have been bad.

I had that happen to me and it is the reason I got my CHL.
And yes, I DID DRIVE AWAY! But driving away does not good if they follow you. The bozo followed me and I got caught in traffic at an intersection...with him right behind me. By now he is more enraged, he got out of his vehicle and started the tirade at my window. At the point where it appeared things were going to get physical, I remembered I was in a Jeep and I might be able to drive around the traffic. I did and left him standing in the road, since his vehicle couldn't follow. If he would have had a gun, it might have ended differently.
There have been too many road rage related shootings and beatings around here in the past few years. Some people are just crazy and I am too old to deal with them. I decided at that point to start carrying.
Jack

Seems like getting out of there fast would be advisable.

Don't open your window.

I would not want to talk to him, and I don't want to hear what he has to say.

People have an uncontrollable urge to "apologize" or expain their actions.

I was driving down a 6 lane road and this fellow started to come into my lane. I would like to think he saw me (I was driving a big white pickup) but in reality he probably didn't because he was on the phone. As he was changing lanes I was on the brakes and the horn (I figured maybe I was in his blind spot and I tried to warn him it was not safe to change lanes). So he whips in behind me. Silly me thought eveything was fine, accident avoided, all good. Well I look in the rear view and he is shaking his fist and giving me the finger all the while STILL on the phone. I decided to take the long way home and cut through the neighborhood, and he follows. I know there are children in the neighborhood so I drive at 20mph not terribly slow but slow enough I would have a chance to react. Now he is blowing his horn, he has the window down, and he is so close I can't see his hood. This goes on for a few blocks until we reach the part of the neightborhood that hasn't been developed yet just barren ground no houses no trees and you can see for a good ways. I sped up to about 35mph and he kept tailgating...until we came to the speed bumps. I'm in a truck so a speed bump is a suggestion, not so for the fellow in a mini-van. The next day I went home the same way and there was a fresh streak of motor oil for about 100 feet.

There is a ‘Florida Gun Owner’s Guide’ available.
Buy a copy and read it.

Law is NOT just the written statute law, but also the case (AKA ‘common’) law that shows how the statute law has been interpreted by the courts.
The case law is just as binding, and deals with the nuances of real cases.
It can help define things like what is reasonable fear as the court has viewed them.
While new cases continuously modify the case law, at least knowing what the existing limits are gives you a better starting point.

This should be in S&T.....

There was a guy like this in Topeka awhile back. He drove a white car and if he thought you had done something he didnt like he would just roll down the window and start shooting at you with a 12g. Let me see if I can find a link in the Topeka Capitol Journal.

I think this part of the case. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20080213/ai_n21417072

Castle doctrine also applies to your vehicle.If someone is foolish enough to attack you in your vehicle they deserve what they get.I don't advocate doing anything but minding your own business and not try to escalate the situation.Simply drive away if safely possible.The last issue I had was as a passenger in a veh driven by my lovely wife.A biker felt the need to follow alongside us from stoplight to stoplight swearing at me and insulting my wife because she got our vehicle between him and his brother biker in traffic.She wanted to run, but traffic said no way.The biker crossed the line when he stuck his helmeted head into my window to continue the verbal barrage.My 1911 said "enough, this is over.

You are invited to be the next test case about 'reasonable fear' under FL law.

Read up on FL law.
You cannot respond to just a verbal attack with lethal force.

What if the ONLY direction that you can run away is directly through a busy intersection where you have a red light? The chance of avoiding a collision and getting hurt-- or hurting someone else is a very likely possibility here.


I'd love to hear your comments or views on this.

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There are 5 steps to a good shoot

1 You did not cause the situation
2 You believe you were in imminent danger or death or serious bodily injury
3 You didnt violate any opportunity to retreat or avoid danger
4 You exhausted all other means to avoid using deadly force
5 Your use of force presents no danger to innocents

If you meet all 5 criteria you should be warded a good shoot... Not to say you wont have to go through a court but you SHOULD in all likelyhood be vindicated of any charge

Quote:
Only foolish people get shot or shoot in traffic altercations. It is so expensive either way.

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It's not foolish to defend yourself.

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No, it's not foolish to defend yourself. But that wasn't the point. With a vehicle and a cell phone there are almost no situations that can't be dealt with by leaving the scene.

Avoidance of situations that will escalate into SD situations is much, much wiser than entering into them on some self-righteous and ad hoc "just" basis.

Only foolish people get shot or shoot in traffic altercations.

Drive away safely and purposefully. Get on the cell phone and report it if there is a threat.

How about when he was honking while you stopped for the pedestrian, shut the engine off, walk back and hand him the keys. Tell him "here you run them over I don't have the guts for it."

There are 5 steps to a good shoot

1 You did not cause the situation
2 You believe you were in imminent danger or death or serious bodily injury
3 You didnt violate any opportunity to retreat or avoid danger
4 You exhausted all other means to avoid using deadly force
5 Your use of force presents no danger to innocents

If you meet all 5 criteria you should be warded a good shoot... Not to say you wont have to go through a court but you SHOULD in all likelyhood be vindicated of any charge

Click to expand...

I'm in FL which has a "stand your ground" law in addition to a good Castle Doctrine law. But, if circumstances allowed me to, I'd still adhere to the 5 things you mention. You escape the worst of the aftermath consequences if you have all 5 of these, but that's only if the legal system works the way it's supposed to. In my layman's understanding of the law, attempting to retreat and the bad guy not allowing you to, really tilts the legal odds in your favor should you later decide to use deadly force. Even if retreating is not required by local law.

350z?