Do heavier bullets drop faster than lighter bullets....

I like this discussion. Let's not limit it to the vacuum theory as the Original Post makes a comparison of only neglecting air resistance versus air resistance. Nothing is said about being in a vacuum.....

Let me ask this, as I shoot a lot of Cap and Ball. And maybe this will get us back on track with the OP...

Let's deal with sphere's....both fired horizontally at 6'....at the same weight and at the same velocity.

In Case 1: Negative Air resistance.
If I over spin a ball, it would still go straight and would have the same flight time before finding ground as a underspun ball.

In Case 2: Adding Air resistance.
Same overspun ball that slices upward through the air (as in a golf ball slice) And a underspun ball that just goes straight....

Obviously the effect of air resistance comes into play as the overspun ball gains altitude....

Do you think there would be.....no meaningful effect still?

Giz

With respect to time, both bullets drop at the same rate, so they hit the ground at the same time. With respect to distance, the higher velocity bullet hits the ground at a greater distance than the slower one, but still at the same time. Gravity affects the projectile at a 90 degree angle with respect to direction of travel, so it has no effect on accelerating/decelerating the projectile, unless fired at an extreme up/downward angle, and then the effect is negligible, given ordinary bullet velocities. Air resistance is a constant, it affects the projectile in both directions, forward and downward. Bullet design affects travel through air and makes the bullet more or less efficient which allows the bullet to travel a greater or lesser distance, but it does not overcome the force of gravity.

Another factor is the arc the round is fired in.
Most rounds fired at distance are not fired at a 90 degree angle, but are fired with the barrel pointing slightly upwards giving a trajectory that zeros at a given range. A round with a higher BC, the heavier loadings, is going to spend more time going up before it begins to fall for a given elevation.
So since rounds are not fired at 90 degree angles at distance, a heavier bullet will actualy spend more time in the air before it would fall to the ground, because the higher BC of the heavier round gives it a trajectory that accomplishes that at a given angle greater than 90.

So while the sights may be aligned at a 90 degree angle, the barrel is actualy pointing slightly upwards. That means the heavier round with the greater BC will begin its vertical descent after more time has elapsed, being less effected by the horizontal air resistance when fired at a given barrel elevation.
So the heavier bullets will usualy actualy spend more time in the air. Meaning they have both less bullet drop over distance in a given caliber and spend more time in flight. It is however a mathmatical curve, you can change the results by using a round so heavy that it leaves at significantly lower velocity.
The curve depends on the given round.

I guess next we will be hearing that centrifugal force is real. So for the record, it does not exist.

oh God. its back.

I didn't think it was all that bad of a thread.

Those who didn't know about the gravitational constant are now aware that it exists.

Those who hadn't thought about the resistance of air to a falling object are now aware of it.

We all picked up little bit of knowledge.

Random information: Galileo Galilei probably didn't do anything with weighted balls near any towers. If there is any credence to his involvement in the gravity affair, it was likely a thought experiment. Not a very original one at that. Theories that contradicted Aristotle's notions of gravity and acceleration were floating around in Europe from at least the 1300's.

Yeah, okay, while you guys worry about this and figure it out, I am going to the range to see if I can keep it so the bad guy drops instead of me.

All the best,
GB

Sounds like your equations have more to do with volume than mass.

I'm not going to read the entire thread... but I presume someone else has already chimed in.,

Allow me a brief phsyics aside. It is not actually true that a feather and a bowling ball dropped in a vacuum fall at the same velocity. The equation that determines the force of gravity takes into account the mass of BOTH the earth, and the other object. Because of the way that equation works out, the mass of the earth is so much larger, that the other mass becomes technically (but not theoretically) irrelevant.




Back to the topic at hand.


If I shoot a 55 grain bullet with a high Ballistic Coefficient out of my 220 Swift, at say.... 3800 fps. And a 40 grain bullet at 4000 fps. By the time they have traveled 500 yards, the 55 grain bullet will be traveling faster, have more retained energy, and a flatter trajectory than the 40 grain bullet that was initially moving faster. It will probably catch and pass the lighter bullet if you could fire them at the exact same time.

Drop a bullet from a given height and fire an identical bullet from that same height at that same instant. Both bullets will strike the ground at the same time. Yes, a heavier bullet will fall faster. In addition, since a heavier bullet cannot be driven as fast in a given caliber, a heavier bullet will fall further at a given range since, traveling more slowly, it takes longer to reach that range.

Gravity, it's a law, not just a darned good idea! (is that language PC enough?)

John

What is heavier-a pound of feathers or a pound of bullets??

No

Simply, the answer is no. Everything falls at the same rate. Slower bullets just go slower, so by the time they get to a target they have dropped more than faster bullets. You can demonstrate this with reloads. Use the same bullets, and load a minimum load and a maximum load. Shoot them at a target using the same sight picture.
Also, the rate at which bullets slow down, even if they were going the same speed at the muzzle, matters. If one is slowing down faster, then it's average speed to the target must be considered.
Lots of math involved. A lot of physics around acceleration, velocity, energy, and trajectory was worked out doing ballistics calculations in the middle ages.

Stop!! This needs to go no further!!!!!

I would think that a heavier bullet would have more momentum due to it's weight. I charged a 168 gr Sie and a 180gr bullet and shot them and they were hitting almost in the same spot on the target.

Allow me a brief phsyics aside. It is not actually true that a feather and a bowling ball dropped in a vacuum fall at the same velocity. The equation that determines the force of gravity takes into account the mass of BOTH the earth, and the other object. Because of the way that equation works out, the mass of the earth is so much larger, that the other mass becomes technically (but not theoretically) irrelevant.

Click to expand...

Here's a thought experiment for you: "How many times do you have to cut the bowling ball in half before all of it's parts dropped at once fall slower than the bowling ball fell when it was whole?"

Back to the thread at hand:
If you have a heavy bullet in one hand and a light bullet in the other hand, and you drop them at the same time, they will hit the ground at the same time. I urge you to try it yourself, even in your mind. You know as well as I know that if you dropped a shotgun slug from one hand and a .177 airgun pellet from the other hand, you are not going to be able to tell the difference on when they hit. Now, there is air resistance on falling objects, and this will affect the pellet more because the smaller an object gets, the greater it's ratio of surface area to mass. However, the air resistance to the two falling bullets is negligible in this case of dropping a few feet to the ground.

The same thing is true if you fired both bullets from two guns at the same time. If the barrels are level (which is not usually the case when shooting), and both bullets head out at the same time, their speed nor their mass make any difference at all about when they hit the ground. Where they hit the ground depends on their speed, because they have so much time to get as far as they can before they come to the ground.

In fact, if it were possible for you to fire a bullet from a level barrel, and drop a second bullet from the same height as the barrel at the exact same time that the projected bullet was fired, they would both hit the ground at the same time.

Here's a thought experiment for you: "How many times do you have to cut the bowling ball in half before all of it's parts dropped at once fall slower than the bowling ball fell when it was whole?"

Click to expand...

In the atmosphere, just once... if you drop them from a high enough distance.

Proof Positive

Do heavier bullets drop faster than lighter bullets....

Click to expand...

The correct answer is yes. Irrefutable proof comes in the form of the abundance of instances where aggressors have been felled instantly by a single haphazardly placed shot from a .45. On balance, the lighter 9mm routinely fails to drop at all despite multiple attempts and careful aim.

It's not just physics, it's the laws of physics.

Do lighter bullets fall faster: in real life NO.

I mean YES

Test 1. Compare .224 Dia HPBT Match King Bullets

X1 = 69 Grain

Y2= 52 Grain

Givens:
VE = 3000 ft per second for both bullets

Distance to test point = 300 yrds

Data

Energy
X1= 700 Ft/Lbs
Y2= 400 Ft/Lbs

Bullet path

X1= -7.5 inches @ 300 yrds
Y2= -9.2 inches @ 300 yrds

Time in flight

X1= 0.35621
Y2= 0.38450


Looks like to make Y shoot to X will require ½ minute UP elevation for the 52 grain HPBT Match King to strike at the same point as the 69 grain at 300 yards.

Scattergun Bob said:

Looks like to make Y shoot to X will require ½ minute UP elevation for the 52 grain HPBT Match King to strike at the same point as the 69 grain at 300 yards.

Click to expand...

They hit the ground at the same time when fired level to the ground. There is no meaningful difference. Due to velocity, they hit the ground at different distances.

Elevation changes the numbers by allowing higher velocity projectiles to stay in the air longer. It does not, however, change the laws of gravity.


-T.

If 1 fat guy and one skinny guy running 20 mph, jump off a roof at the same time, will the fat guy hit the ground first?

I think this is done.