A random thought on EnBlocs...

Status
Not open for further replies.

lysander

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
585
Besides the Garand, have any other autoloaders used an EnBloc?

Further, what, I wonder, is the viability of a modern EnBloc design (perhaps one that is bottom load/eject) as a means of producing say an 8 or 10 shot, CA compliant type, "assault weapon"?
 
Last edited:
The .276 Pederson experimental military rifle, prior to the adoption of the M-1 Garand, is the only other semi-auto I can think of offhand.

Enblock clips were integral to the design of several early military bolt actions, including the Mannlichers, early 1888 Mauser, and Italian Carcano used in WWII.

rcmodel
 
The French had some semi-auto rifles in WWI that used Mannlicher clips. The Italians had a crew served machine gun that used the same clips that their rifle did.
 
The idea of a bottom loading enbloc for CA is really interesting. I'd like to see where a manufacturer would take that, and I hope that someone who has a better working knowledge of guns can tell us how well this would work.
 
The Pedersen was the only other one that I could find...but I am not much of a Cruffler...
 
Sadly, I doubt any major manufacturers would look at that sort of thing, since the California legislature has demonstrated they're more than happy to move the bar any time they feel like it. Too much risk they'd throw a bunch of money into a design, only to have the 2009 California government decide that it's no longer legal, even if the 2008 government signed off on it, etc.

The better solution, I'd say, is military invasion to bring a territory that's clearly in a state of insurrection vis a vis the US Constitution back into the Union, but that seems unlikely . . .
 
+1

I can't see any manufacture tyeing up R&D money for an end run around the Kalifornifacation guns laws.

To big an end-zone, and the goal-posts keep moving!

rcmodel
 
I can't see any manufacture tyeing up R&D money for an end run around the Kalifornifacation guns laws.

Bushmaster already did and made a CA legal AR, not that it really took much R&D to not cut a hole in the receiver for the mag well though.
 
The Italian Armaguerra, and the Russian Yasnikov, Ferdinand Mannlicher M1910 (VERY similar to the M1), and Austrian HALB-Automatische (auto-ejecting, manual chambering) modifications of the Steyr M-95 Mannlicher.
 
Ignore for a moment the viability of a larger manufacturer trying to go this direction...I'm just wondering if anyone who knows or thing or two about design can comment on whether or not the design would be feasible or practical.

I think everyone agrees that the Garand/M14 family of rifles are incredible platforms for irons...but they can be a bit difficult when it comes to mounting up modern optics. Sure we can have a "scout" style setup. Or we can mount the optics traditionally and then we run into trouble with cheek weld.

I was thinking that an inverted Garand type action might allow for a railed flattop format that could support both irons and modern optics. Using EnBlcos instead of box magazines might allow for a work around to CA laws for other EBR features. (pistol grips, flash hiders, collapsible/folding stocks, etc.)

...but whatever...I am not qualified to even draw the concept with a crayon.
 
Last edited:
I'm not saying it's impossible, but consider -

The Garand bolt serves as the "lid" for the en-bloc, keeping dirt out. It strips a round off the ears of the loader, and a tricky latch permits the clip to eject upwards when it is empty.

The main problem is spring direction. You load from the top, compressing a spring that feeds rounds upward toward the bolt. The magazine follower moves in a slot at the front of the en-bloc.

For a bottom-loading en-bloc, you have to provide a similar mechanism for spring tensioning, but you're upside down. All I can imagine is some kind of removable follower / bottom plate (which would also keep out dirt), that you would insert after the enbloc.

With all this in the way, I can't see how ejecting the enbloc on last round would even be feasible.

Someone else who knows more about Garand history can provide details, but I think the whole reason for the en-bloc was military mindset against removable magazines. Once that bump was passed, there was no reason to return to the cleverness of the en-bloc.

I believe, the more you sketch some kind of bottom inserting en-bloc, the more the result is going to look like a removable box magazine... :)
 
Basically, the MLE M1917 used a SKS style magazine floorplate/cover to retain the Berthier clip and provide upward feeding. I concur, any bottom feeding en-bloc is just an overcomplicated detachable mag with a cover over it.
 
I believe, the more you sketch some kind of bottom inserting en-bloc, the more the result is going to look like a removable box magazine...

...and as I have thought more on this...picturing the variations in my head I have begun to reach the same conclusion. Shades of a Rube Goldberg Garand are coming to mind.
 
You cant think inside the box on this one, if you want a bottom inserting enblock design your going to have to mod things a bit.

you can have a hinged floor plate, and a set of lifters for the enblock & cartridges that are built into the rifle however the should be perhaps a ratcheting design (the feed being advanced by the action of the gun when fired / action worked) but whatever it would not look like a garand enblock if you want it to work from the bottom. and say the floor plate automatically unlatches when the clip ejects or something so you just have to slap in your next clip and shut the floor plate.

I doubt it would be as reliable as a garand as the complexity would have increased by a power or two but it could be done.

-DR
 
If you're investigating alternatives to the detachable box mag, also have a look at the 1941 Johnson rifle. Its 10-round rotary magazine is loaded from the right side via stripper clips or single rounds.
 
Alright!
Why not a Kalifornicafacation "Assault Rifle" using the side-loading box mag from the Krag-Jørgensen bolt-action.

No Mags to Mash, or Clips to Pitch, just open the door on the Son Of A Bit--!

OOPS!
Nevermind! :what:

Just open the door and dump more loose rounds in the sucker!

rcmodel
 
I doubt it would be as reliable as a garand as the complexity would have increased by a power or two but it could be done.

....and engineering excellence comes from simplicity. :D So the box mag would probably win the day.
 
....and engineering excellence comes from simplicity. So the box mag would probably win the day.
Oh I agree completely, I was just saying it could be done, and i think it would be fairly neatocool etc. It also might sneak past the California retarderrr... lawmakers.
 
Why not have a side-loading enbloc rifle? Stick the clip in one side, and have it eject out the other perhaps?
 
You mean the empties ejecting out the other side right? Otherwise we'd be talking about a stripper clip of some sort.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top