Woman Shoots Motorcyclist: "Reasonable" or "Unreasonable?"

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You guys can sit here and beat you chest and deal with your testosterone high all you want(if you were a woman,blah,blah,blah). How many would draw and fire on someone within 20 ft of you with a knife? Closer than 20 feet and approaching my vehicle AFTER AN ON ROAD ALTERCATION and does not stop when told to do so-I will draw my firearm. If they get close enough to make me feel as if they may cause myself or my family harm-I WILL fire on them. End of discussion. I'm not going to become a statistic just because I didn't know if they were armed or not-if they do not stop-their intentions are very clear.
JL
 
I'm telling you, she's going to lose this case.

If I were the prosecutor my first question is, "Why, if you were afraid for you safety, did you get out of your car?"

What's her answer?

"So I could get a better shot at him."?

"So I could run away."?

She's not going to be able to get past that one question.

A reasonable person would have locked the doors and called 911. Now if he had pulled out a brick and started beating in her windows, then she might could have fired.
 
JDoe said:
The biker acted unreasonably by approaching the vehicle of an allegedly aggressive driver.
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Maybe this thread is a blessing in disguise, it sounds like folks have a lot to learn about bikers.

The guy who was my best man was also a bro from the club, and also a white collar worker. One afternoon he was called to Human Resources because someone had filed a complaint. A female co-worker was accusing him of looking at her "in a threatening manner."

The reason? While my friend couldn't even recollect who she was from the hundreds of people at that insurance company, the complaint was based on the natural formation of his eyebrows, supposedly in a grimace. Oh, and during statements, she admitted that this was an important feature since he also owned a Harley.

I'm a buscuit short of 275 pounds, and I don't care for bullies and idiots.

However, and please read this carefully, I didn't like bullies and idiots when I was a 140 pound eighth grader who didn't own any vehicle, at all.

The idea that this man has to undergo any more indepth scrutiny because he owns a bike teeters on bigotry.

Imagine this scenario. Let's suppose you and Bikerdoc tangle at the S.H.O.T. show, he's wiping the floor with you and I intervene to save your life. I had no knowledge of how the fight started and who was at fault but I said:

"Bikerdoc, you can go because you're also a biker and I know your values..."

And then I turned to you and said:

"Look you little weasel citizen, you ever try this stunt again and I'll call the club enforcers to really put you in your place!"

In a very real sense, this is how big bikers on black bikes get treated every day. And the biker in the OP took a bullet because of this nonsense.
 
First off, ibob, roadkinglarry, I'm a long time lurker on this site. You two are above this petty arguing.
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whats wrong with a little good natured petty arguing?
 
Fletcher wrote:
Was she stuck in traffic at the light?
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She followed (tailgated) him for 41 exits on hwy 62. That sounds like a few miles at the very least.

FCFC wrote:
Here is a case where the "R" word is crucial to determining whether her shooting was a good idea or not.

Did Yalanda Parrish think it was "reasonable" to shoot Wesley Mosier? I'm sure she did.
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If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, did it make a noise?

I'm not too worried about my reasoning skills because I'm not CrAAAaaaAAAzy like Yalanda Parrish.
 
I agree with everyone here that in the case of Parrish and Mosier-she should not have exited the vehicle,and probably was in the wrong. If he was threatening her-wait until he's at the vehicle close enough to cause harm if you needed a "better shot"-then she would be justified.
Truth is..NOBODY SITTING HERE TYPING ON THIS FORUM WAS THERE AS AN EYEWITNESS TO WHAT WAS HAPPENING,so nobody here can say what should/should not have happen.
JL
 
How many would draw and fire on someone within 20 ft of you with a knife? Closer than 20 feet and approaching my vehicle AFTER AN ON ROAD ALTERCATION and does not stop when told to do so
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You should simply drive away. At 20' I would- armed or not. I'm not looking to get into a fight though.... BTDT. YMMV
 
She followed (tailgated) him for 41 exits on hwy 62. That sounds like a few miles at the very least.
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I mean when they came to a stop at the light, and he dismounted and approached the vehicle, were other vehicles blocking an exit route?


This is a little extreme example, as this guy is clearly armed and violent, but here's what I'm trying to get at when people are saying "drive away". Yes, that's an excellent first option if you can (I've done this myself when I "cut off" someone going >65 in a 45 that I pulled out in front of, and he began to scream and pursue me - I was thankful all the lights were green until I was able to lose him in a local complex), but sometimes it just won't work (this was the subject of an old THR thread - possible NSFW due to language):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZmgE9csoMek
Skip to halfway through.
 
Stop This Senseless Insulting And Bickering Please!!!

Jeffersonville police said Yolanda Parrish, 39, shot Wesley Mosier Jr., 52, in the chest Tuesday afternoon after an argument near the intersection of State Highway 62 and Allison Lane.

A police report says witnesses observed Mosier Jr. weaving in out of traffic on his motorcycle with an "angry look on his face." The report said Mosier Jr. and Parrish stopped at a traffic light and that Mosier Jr. got off his motorcycle to approach Parrish's SUV.

One witness, who asked not to be identified, described what she saw next.

"The woman said, 'No you don't,' and opened up the door, tried to hit him with the door and she shot him," she said. "Point blank." The witness said she didn't believe Parrish was justified.

"I don't think she had the right to shoot him because he wasn't, he didn't do anything wrong," she said. "He just got off his bike and walked back there. He wasn't nasty with her or anything else."

The witness also said she saw Parrish's 15-year-old son exit the SUV and begin kicking and taunting Mosier after the shooting. Another witness on the report said he saw Parrish join in, too.

In an interview Tuesday outside University hospital, Mosier's parents said they were shocked by the incident. Hospital officials said Mosier, Jr. was in serious condition. His mother said he's in a medically induced coma.

"To just pull a gun out and shoot somebody makes you feel like she thinks she's got license to kill," said Mosier's father, Wesley Mosier, Sr. "I think it's terrible."

Clark County Prosecutor Steve Stewart said Indiana does have a self-defense law, but he said it's unclear whether it applies to this case.

"That can only reach the level of deadly force, that is you can protect yourself by pulling a gun and shooting someone, if you are in danger of serious bodily injury yourself," Stewart said.

Stewart said he'll explore the possibility of charges against everyone involved in the incident, including Parrish's teenage son. He said this incident should send a message to everyone.

"The message to the public is chill out," said Stewart. "All of us have to put up with things in life. If that means somebody cutting you in a lane of traffic to avoid incident like this, then so be it."

Parrish declined to comment on the case.
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SHE IS CLEARLY THE AGRESSOR IN THIS CASE.

You can not shoot some one who just walks up to your car. There is no indication of this guy being a threat other than you know he is pissed because you tail gated over a long distance. Would you shoot a guy for wanting to tell you your gas tank is open? Ordering others just because you have a gun and you think they might be a threat but havnt demonstrated a threat.............blow I wont stop if I were walking in a parking lot and some one tells me to stop. At most I might pause long enough to look around and make sure I am not endangered by something. Then keep on getting on.

Telling some one to stop is not a prejustifier for a shoot


Common sense here folks use common sense think about what you are saying here. I must asume that some of you are not thinking clearly.
 
Been ridin' a few years now:) Never hit anyone in a car that was in front of me but I have been run over from behind. Tailgater's suck! But I would never get in a confrontation with them- too many whack jobs out there. Too much to lose, to little to gain.
 
Good post, Tourist.

JLangton wrote:
You guys can sit here and beat you chest and deal with your testosterone high all you want(if you were a woman,blah,blah,blah). How many would draw and fire on someone within 20 ft of you with a knife? Closer than 20 feet and approaching my vehicle AFTER AN ON ROAD ALTERCATION and does not stop when told to do so-I will draw my firearm. If they get close enough to make me feel as if they may cause myself or my family harm-I WILL fire on them. End of discussion. I'm not going to become a statistic just because I didn't know if they were armed or not-if they do not stop-their intentions are very clear.
JL
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Well, I posted from the biker point of view previously. But, I can also tell you that I will, to some degree, take a tongue lashing from someone if I did something stupid. And, everytime they take a breath, I'll be apologizing for being stupid. At some point you have to not just reach for the gun and instead reach for mea culpa. She instigated this situation. An apology would have probably defused the whole thing.
Instead, she shot the guy for being offended that she put his life in danger.

This isn't to say that I'm going to let the guy wail on me, break my car windows, or endanger anyone. I'll just give peace a chance before I start slinging lead.

And, that's where I think she went wrong. She started it, she yapped like a lap dog when confronted, got out of the vehicle to escalate things, and she shot a guy.
bad choices all around.
 
A reasonable person would have locked the doors and called 911. Now if he had pulled out a brick and started beating in her windows, then she might could have fired.
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The stories are not completely clear about the door. One of them says she opened it, another seems to indicate he did.

For those of you willing to have your wife wait by the side of the road until this guy beats her brains in before she does anything, I suggest you think what your wife should do in the same situation. She is approached by some big guy you don't know, in an aggressive way, and has no easy out. It is easy after the fact to say close the window and let him beat on it or throw a brick first, but not so easy for her to do in reality. Its also real easy after the fact to say "she should have done XXX", but just what would you have done any different? I especially appreciate the guy that thinks its a good idea to duke it out with him.

Calling the cops is a good idea, but they won't be there until long after it is over anyway, and she did call after it was over.

From reading the various stories it seems neither of them is exactly an angel. The shooter is a convicted felon, and the shooter pulled a gun in a road rage incident once before.
 
Approaching someone after an altercation on the road ALWAYS ends up a bad situation. The person approaching risks everything,with nothing to gain but a little venting-and that he can do at home or at work over lunch.
JL
 
the whole thing was started by the motorcyclist getting off his bike and accosting the woman.
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No, the whole thing was started by a driver who convinced the biker that she was willing to assault him with a deadly weapon - her car.

BTDT, and I know EXACTLY how this feels. I have also been literally punched by a grill onto the road by an overly aggressive (also female, coincidentally) driver.

The threat of assault started with the aggressive actions of the SUV driver. The rest of the scenario escalated from that.
 
Approaching someone after an altercation on the road ALWAYS ends up a bad situation. The person approaching risks everything,with nothing to gain but a little venting-and that he can do at home or at work over lunch.
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+1. The kind of people that tailgate bikers are the kind that tailgate everyone. They are terrible drivers and should not be allowed on the road, but nothing you can do or say to them will change anything - it's just who they are. Also, as mentioned, if you approach to chew out a bad driver, as much as he/she may deserve it, and it goes bad, you get the short end either way. If the driver gets violent and you're forced to defend yourself, you technically initiated/instigated the conflict and might get smacked around legally. If you don't defend yourself, you get a little beating at best.

IMO, people who tailgate, swerve all over the road with no warning, etc. should be the ones getting licenses revoked and jailtime. It makes no sense to me that you can negligently hit someone with a car and maybe get a little suspension and small penalty, but if you attack them and do the same damage if you ran into said individual on the street, you'll get locked up for sure. But, that's a rant and discussion for another time.

I stand by my initial opinion - both people were stupid here, and both are going to pay for it.
 
It doesn't matter who in the hell "started it". End result was somebody left their vehicle to "discuss" it with another person.
Bad idea,and ended in a bad and potentially fatal situation.
JL
 
1) she should have just driven away
2) she walked back to where he was to shoot him
3) she and teenage boy kicked and taunted him after shooting him.

I think she is going to lose then get a civil suit applied after being found guilty to the tune of all her family has and then some.
 
STRAMBO-
If no paint is traded,then I wouldn't approach anyone (if it was, it would only be to trade information). What's the point? To tell them they drive poorly...
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If anyone drove two feet from my hind end while I'm on a bike, I consider that placing my life in grave danger. There is no way a four wheeler can stop/avoid a bike when in that proximity. Just a lane change is dangerous. (this ain't NASCAR!) You can bet that I would approach that tailgater at the next opportunity. People shouldn't be able to get away with that.

On to the subject at hand, from what I've read, it appears that she was not justified. It appears that she had opportunity to drive away -even if he was approaching in an aggressive manner. (I'd have been ticked to, so I guess I'd have been shot) It appears that she may have provoked the situation. She still didn't have justification to shoot.

Not yet. It could have gone there, but with the information we have, the situation hadn't escalated to the point where she needed to defend her and her son's life. Had the man brandished a weapon, short of a gun, she still wasn't justified. She had the upper hand with the vehicle as protection and means of fleeing the scene. Had he brandished a gun, then even though she may have provoked the situation, she may have had a bit of justification to shoot, but not enough justification to exit the vehicle to do so. If she had that much time, she'd have had time to drive away.

Most state laws do reference a reasonable belief of imminent bodily harm to one's self or family. Most laws read that force can be met with equal force which means she still wouldn't have been justified by driving over the guy in what she calls self defense. Or, to shoot the guy. Even if the guy was smashing the sheet metal of the SUV with his fists, doesn't mean he had intent to harm the occupants.

Since he didn't brandish a firearm or other weapon, she had no justification to shoot. None.

-Steve
 



This has devolved into a biker versus car driver quarrel WO regard to the original thread.

From past personal experience, bikers can often be very aggressive in their riding. The same can be said for car drivers. I've been in both situations. I truly hate young punks on rice rockets who run at 80 in a 60MPH zone or split lanes - that's using the stripe between two cars going in the same direction as a bike lane.

Personally, form what little that has come to light here, I hope the jury finds her not guilty on the shooting charge but guilty of assault for the kicking the guy after he was down.

I quit riding because car drivers don't look for motorcycles. The Harley I was riding got totalled and the driver never saw me until the crash.

​
 
ilbob said:
unambiguous...he got off his bike...reason is unclear
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Oh, I can give you a real good guess...

Why is it hard to understand that a biker goin' down the highway, not hurting anyone, gets a tad ticked after being threatened and killed with a +two ton vehicle?

There has to be bikers in your area. When you go home tonight, try and run one of them off the road. Write us back tomorrow from the ICU.
 
All I know

Is that she was a black woman tailgating a white man on a motorcycle with handicap plates. Sometimes within feet of him. He got off his bike to ask her why she was driving like that and she shot him then her son took the opportunity to kick him while he was down.

They both need to be taken out of society. What I can't figure out was why it took Indiana so long to take her gun permit away from her. This woman has serious issues and really does not belong in society till she has dealt with those issues and if she has taught her son to be the same kind of animal she is he should be locked up until he is house trained too. Yet I read the guy was a thug. If he was a thug he wouldn't have gotten off his bike to talk to her because all the power was on her side. If he had been a thug he would have drawn a sawed off shotgun and put a slug in her radiator. Maybe then she would have kept a more reasonable distance between her and other bikers.

Could it be that SUV drivers are thugs? I mean some of my best friends are SUV drivers could I have been wrong about them. My brother rides a bike wearing his colors and a bandanna instead of a helmet and is the gentlest most giving person I know. Could I be wrong, is he really a thug? Boy the things you can learn on The High Road.
 
From past personal experience, bikers can often be very aggressive in their riding. The same can be said for car drivers. I've been in both situations. I truly hate young punks on rice rockets who run at 80 in a 60MPH zone or split lanes - that's using the stripe between two cars going in the same direction as a bike lane.
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meaningless to the discussion.
He wasn't doing any of that if she was tailgating him.
 
Let me tell you my road rage story.

I was in the process of moving and stopped at a McDonald's drive-though on the way from the old apartment to the new apartment to get some breakfast.

I start to pull up to drive off and some guy comes zooming around me and then pulls in front of me and slams on his brakes. Then he gets out of the car and pounds on the hood of my car yelling about his coffee. He had coffee stains on his white shirt and tie so I am guessing he spilled his coffee on himself. Then he demands I get out of the car. I of course being slow to wrath, know it is not in my best interests to do anything of the sort. I could not get out even were I so dumb as to do so, seeing as my door is still up against the building.

Then he starts yelling about me buying him another cup of coffee. I remain silent and pretend he is not there. He pounds on the hood of my car a few more times, than kicks my tire, gets back in his car and drives off with a nice tire screech.

Ironically, on the front seat of my car under a pile of blankets and clothes is a zippered case with my unloaded 45 and a couple of loaded mags. Never occurred to me to reach for it, or anything else for that matter. I am more stunned by what is going on than anything else. I cannot ever recall having that gun on the front seat next to me before or since. I just put it there because it was a convenient place when I loaded the car. I never really felt threatened so much as curious about why he is yelling at me. My first thought is what the heck did I do to the guy?

To this day I have no idea what set him off. Normal looking guy, white shirt and tie, nice car. Could have been a doctor or lawyer for all I know.
 
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