Road Rage:Federal Agent Killed at Broward County FL,Post Office

Travis McGee said:

Many lessons here. Among them, road rage incidents must be avoided like the plague by CCW holders and other armed citizens because of the likelihood of escalation. Also, when followed in a car by a potential nut, avoid pulling into a dead-end or blocked exit situation. Keep your options open, park with forward space ahead to roll out immediately. Lastly, if blocked in by a potential nut, if you get out, get out armed and ready.

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I'll go even beyond that: Road rage situations are to be avoided at all costs, even if you aren't an armed citizen. Perhaps more so if you aren't an armed citizen. If you can't avoid one -- evade it. I'm less worried about an irate CCW holder pulling a gun on me than I am about a gang banger in a low rider. There's no way of knowing who is driving another vehicle, and if they drive irresponsibly you can probably be safe in assuming they don't take other laws very seriously, either.

In recent years, I have become the world's worst automotive chicken.

Ask yourself "what would Jesus do?"

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"Donkey rage" incidents are rare.

It's a sad story.
But as was said, we don't know why this escalated, who did what, or how. We only know what the outcome was in the parking lot (sort of).
While this is extremely tragic, there are far better options in road rage situations than pulling over to confront someone. That would not be an option for me. Especially if I have kids with me. Road rage by definition is a non-reasoning situation...get out of it by any means possible. Flee, get away, run, drive to the nearest police station, even purposely get pulled over by a cop...anything to avoid confrontation. This is of course, assuming you aren't the one raging.

It takes two to tango. Road Rage can only escalate into phyisical violence if both parties are sufficiently wond (sp) up.

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No it doesn't. It only takes two for there to be a victim, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the victim did anything conscious to provoke or enrage the attacker. Some folks are wound up when they open their eyes in the morning.

There are several sides to every story and because the victim was a federal LEO we may never know why the guy felt like he needed to shoot someone.

I'm sure the victim was a good guy but I hate how the press piles on the hype because the guy was a cop.

How could this possibly happen? It's against Federal Law to have a gun on Post Office property!

A sad, sad affair. Prayers to the families of all involved.

Both parties are to blame when road rage incidents end like this. It seems like he didn't do anything to stop the incident from escalating.

Sorry, but it was a stupid thing to do and even stupider with your daughter in the car.

I feel terrible for the girl and family.....

But am having a real hard time coming up with a scenario that would justify why a physically fit, off duty LEO and veteran would pull over and get out of his car to mix it up in a road rage scenario with a 60+ year old man who goes to dialysis (didn't look to intimidating to me).

I'm reminding myself that older people can...

1. be just as ornery as the rest of us

2. drive just as poorly as the rest of us (often made worse by deteriorating vission, hearing, etc...)

but...

3. are likely to scare easier (due to physical limitations)

He may have thought the LEO was getting out of his car to kick his @$$ into oblivion and hit the panic button. I certainly doubt he knew it was an LEO.

Despite the LEOs distinguished career, this certainly wasn't a cold blooded car jacking/bank robbery/gang banging type murder, which was the tone the intial reports presented the story with.

But am having a real hard time coming up with a scenario that would justify why a physically fit, off duty LEO and veteran would pull over and get out of his car to mix it up in a road rage scenario with a 60+ year old man who goes to dialysis (didn't look to intimidating to me).

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That assumes that the LEO was getting out of his car that reason, rather than he was at his destination and this guy followed him there.

this certainly wasn't a cold blooded car jacking/bank robbery/gang banging type murder

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No, it was a hot-blooded, hot-headed murder, but I really don't see a difference.

Travis McGee posted:

Lastly, if blocked in by a potential nut, if you get out, get out armed and ready.

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That didn't work out so well in Tulsa recently with a CHL holder being charged and convicted of manslaughter (suspended sentence) in a plea agreement. Here is the GlockTalk link with articles and further links for info (couldn't find any THR discussions when searching for Gumm):

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=896697&highlight=gumm

Segarra said more than 400 law enforcement officers and at least two Blackhawk helicopters had been scouring South Florida for the killer of 52-year-old customs agent Donald Pettit.

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Do all murders get this sort of investigation? Or just ones that happen to involve a federal agent?

Quote:
Segarra said more than 400 law enforcement officers and at least two Blackhawk helicopters had been scouring South Florida for the killer.


Do all murders get this sort of investigation? Or just ones that happen to involve a federal agent?

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What do you think?

Regardless of what the Fed did, he was unarmed and the shooter fled afterwards.

This will not end well for Mr. Wonder.

Traffic dispute = a man's life? No. Not ever.

How do they KNOW this is the guy? Whomever is responsible should be dead meat, but how do they know for sure? Not doubting, just asking.

Duelling One Finger Salutes

Reportedly, Wonder has admitted it.

Looks like there is a lot to be learned from this one. It really looks like a civilian/civilian interaction. The deceased's status as a federal employee does not seem to have been an important factor in the shooting.



Road Rage Cited In Events Leading To Pettit Murder

Officer, Murder Suspect Trade Finger Gestures On Highway Before Arguing, Report Says

DAVIE (CBS4) ― A police report on the death of federal agent Donald Pettit appears to blame road rage as the cause of the murder, and paints a picture of Pettit acting aggressively against the man who now admits he pulled the trigger.

A probable cause report released by the Pembroke Pines Police Department Thursday said an argument on the road spilled out into the parking lot at the Pembroke Pines post office, where suspect James Wonder and Pettit argued before Wonder pulled out a pistol and shot Pettit.

The report said Wonder and Pettit were involved in some exchange on Dykes road, where Wonder may have been driving erratically. The report said the two men exchanged places on the road, one cutting off the other car.

The report went on to say both men traded insulting middle finger gestures while on the road, which ended when Wonder pulled into the post office. Pettit passed the post office, the report said, and then turned back into the post office where Wonder had parked.

Both men got out of their car, according to the report, and continued their argument. The probabe cause report said Wonder admitted reaching into his waistband, pulled out a handgun, and shot Pettit once in the head.

Deputy Chief Mike Segarra said Pettit was shot once in the back of the head.

In an afternoon news conference, Segarra offered little detail about the incident, and was unable to say if Pettit had business in the post office and pulled in to do that business, or if he was there only because of the confrontation with Wonder.

Pettit's 12-year-old daughter was a witness to the shooting, and Segarra had praised the information she provided as instrumental in Wonder's arrest. However at Thursday's news conference, Segarra could not say if the daughter knew why her father was at the post office, or what was said in the parking lot that might have touched off the shooting.

Segarra did offer details of the steps Wonder took to elude capture, including dyeing his hair after he heard a description mentioning gray hair, and using a rental car to keep a dialysis appointment the next day, parking and concealing the car he was driving at the time of the shooting.

Segarra declined to discuss reporter questions about Wonder's state of mind at the time of the shooting, saying the investigation would address claims that Wonder was affected by missing a dialysis appointment before the road rage incident.

When Segarra declined to discuss the officer's behavior on the road and in the parking lot, CBS4 reporter Gary Nelson asked Pembroke Pines Mayor Frank Ortis, who had attended the meeting to praise the officers, if the finger gestures and anger were appropriate behavior for a 35 year officer.
Ortis said simply that road rage is a serious problem and people need to be more careful about controlling their temper.

When the two men argued Pettit was officially on duty, according to his employer, US Customs and Border Protection. Chief Segarra could not say what Pettit was doing with his 12-year-old daughter in his government-issued car while he was officially on duty, and in response to reporters questions, would not detail what duties Pettit was performing, saying that is all a part of the investigation.

Wonder was taken into custody by investigators Wednesday at the Universal Kidney Center in Davie, showing up en masse at a Davie strip mall located at Hiatus Road and SR-84 around 2:30 p.m.

Pines police say they did recover several guns from Wonder's home. Police say one of those guns matches the caliber of the firearm used in the shooting.

Wonder remains jailed on a charge of first degree murder.

http://cbs4.com/local/killer.post.office.2.790345.html

When the two men argued Pettit was officially on duty, according to his employer, US Customs and Border Protection. Chief Segarra could not say what Pettit was doing with his 12-year-old daughter in his government-issued car while he was officially on duty, and in response to reporters questions, would not detail what duties Pettit was performing, saying that is all a part of the investigation.

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Thats interesting.

If the story is accurate it sounds like a couple people old enough to know better decided to act stupid.

Clearly, the decedent was to some extent the aggressor, following the shooter to the location, and clearly a claim of self-defense will be made as a result. Don't know if it will fly or not. Depends on the 12 year old's testimony and whether there were any other witnesses.

The police chief claims that the decedent was shot in the BACK of the head, which flies in the face of a self-defense shooting, if true. But the police chief has a strong interest in painting the accused in a bad light, so that's not particularly believable until an autopsy report is forthcoming.

If the guy is found guilty, this this is just about the worst possible case for CCW holders, and plays directly into the the hands of the anti-gunners. If he is guilty, this this exactly, precisely what the gun banners claim will happen (licensed CCW goes hothead, commits murder out of the blue, no criminal record - the mere presence of a gun did it). I'm frankly going to be shocked if this is the case (that he is guilty - no self defense validity - and that he is indeed a CCW holder) - shocked because I wouldn't believe that it could /can happen like that. Are the gun banners right?

The shot in the back of the head thing could mean he turned tail as soon as the gun was presented. Either way, it sounds like both guys acted immaturely, and unfortunately one lost his life. Federal agent or not, I dont really see how that had much to do with this shooting. It looks more like 2 hotheads rather than an agent and a hothead. Unless some detail has been left out, it looks like Wonder is gonna get crucified though. This does not bode well for our CC arguments....

I don't know why people on our side think that a basic records check is enough to make a CCW holder a "certified good guy" (a term that's used a lot here) yet we can accept the fact that people who have passed extensive special background investigations, psychological testing, polygraph tests, and periodic rechecks can betray their country and oath of office. There are no "certified good guys" there are just human beings with all of their failings.

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Which is why IMO the CCW permit system is just a big waste of time and money. There is no evidence that Vermont or Alaska have problems with their no-permit-required system. For that matter, legal car carry states like Montana, Colorado, and Arizona don't seem to have any greater problems with road rage, AFAIK.

For all the national "federal officer killed" hoopla over this incident, I think Wonder will probably end up pleading to a manslaughter charge. It seems pretty clear at this time (and I thought so from the beginning but decided to refrain from speculating on THR) that the deceased contributed to the altercation.

Wonder remains jailed on a charge of first degree murder.

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Best bet for something like this is to be the first one to call the cops. Never run obviously.

The first degree murder charge won't stick. Let him plead guilty to a second degree charge. That'll save the expense and adverse publicity of a trial.

I don't think the guy would be wise to plead "self-defense" and demand a jury trial. I believe he'd be convicted by a jury, and the judge would most likely hit him with the maximum sentence. He'd be smart to plead guilty to second degree, in exchange for a reduced sentence.

According to all the news reports I've seen, the deceased left his firearm in the car when he got out to engage in the confrontation with the accused. Shooting an unarmed man during a heated argument isn't likely to get you a verdict of innocent, especially if the victim was shot in the back of the head, as the police claim.

If he pleads to second degree, he has a chance of getting out of prison before he dies. Not that I want him to.