Bear defense in the Rockies

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ArcherandShooter

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Getting ready for my elk hunt south of Yellowstone, I'm trying to decide which sidearm to take as a backup / critter defense gun. Here are the details of the hunt and my options as regards a sidearm:

- Hunting out of a base camp at 6000' in the Bridger-Teton National Forest
- Day trips on horseback up into the mountains hunting the elk, then stalk on foot
- Hunt is 2X1, so there will be three of us in the party
- My rifle will be a Remington 700 in .30-06
- I've been told that bears in the area could be either Black or Grizzly

My options for handgun include:
- Springfield 1911 in .45 ACP - not the strongest round, but I am very accurate with it
- S&W K-frame, 4" bbl in .357 mag - my guess as to the best "middle ground" choice
- Ruger Super RedHawk, 9" bbl in .44 mag - strongest handgun I own, but large and heavy to lug into the mountains

Thoughts?
 
Personally I'd go with the .45 with buffalo bore FMJ because my view on bears is 1 .45 in the brain is better than 1 .44 mag in the shoulder. I can shoot an auto much faster and more accurately as well (not to mention more comfortable carry). Also, your rifle will most likely be your first line of defense, and a handgun may not come into the equation until the bear is on top of you. In this case, you will want as much ammo as you can have in as few seconds as you can empty your gun. Just my opinions.
 
given your options, the 357 is the way to go. if you need an excuse for a new gun, a 3-4" 44 in a double action revolver is a better mousetrap.

i would not bet my life on a 45 acp piercing a bear's skull here (i hunt the same mountains, but live on the east side - you'll be on the west side).

your 9" gun will be too slow to get into action, the 45 too weak, and the 357 would be minimalist, but would probably work fine.

the reality is you will probably not see a bear, and are even less likely to have to fight one off, but if you get an elk down and have to take several hours or days to pack it out, that could change.

Also, your rifle will most likely be your first line of defense,
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yup.

good luck on your hunt!
 
Nope, get a .223. Kills everything up to elephant and even elephant if you can shoot, or that's what they tell me. How about one of them Kel Tec "pistols" for a side arm in .223? I hear it's overly destructive, though. Don't shoot anything ya wanna eat. I've been told it's FAR better than a magnum revolver, though.
 
About 25 years ago, a friend of mine went up to Alaska to help build a gold mine ore processing plant. Since he heard that grizzlies ran through the camp all the time, he purchased a brand new stainless steel Ruger Security Six with a 6" barrel in .357 mag. The first day he wore his pistol, an old timer also working on the site pulled him aside and asked if he could look at his pistol. The old guy inspected and examined it, and pronounced it a pretty fine piece of work, except that my friend needed to file off the front sight. When my friend asked why, "Was it so I can draw it faster?", the old timer said "No, so when the bear shoves it up where the sun don't shine, it won't hurt nearly as much".
The only time I would keep the pistol handy would be at night. Your 30-06 is way more powerful than any pistol, and I would be thinking of it as your bear defense weapon out in the field. Besides, with the altitude (if you aren't used to it) and the steep, all excess weight, like a pistol, should probably be discarded. This will probably become real obvious after a few days of hunting. I wish you luck, it's a beautiful place there.
 
the reality is you will probably not see a bear, and are even less likely to have to fight one off, but if you get an elk down and have to take several hours or days to pack it out, that could change.
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I've heard from people that hunt elk up there that it is quite possible that grizzlies have learned to identify a gun shot with a nice warm gut pile. It's like ringing the dinner bell. So I'd say be on your guard if you do get an elk, and transport it as quick as possible. Some hunters have even been followed by grizzlies anticipating a free elk.

Don't count on not seeing them. I've camped in the area a few times and I've seen grizzlies there on two separate occasions. Didn't have any troubles though.

If you are most confident with the .45, I'd go with that. You said you're more accurate, and I'm guessing you will be faster with follow up shots, drawing, and reloading.

Sounds like you've got an awesome hunt lined up!
 
Also check out .45 super conversion, it does not take much and it's like 10mm meets .45 auto.
 
The 45 or 357 would be fine. Also be sure to use the "heavy loads" in your head to be aware of your surroundings, and pay attention to signs/smells that you make or leave that may be interesting to big clawed and toothed, furry critters.

Enjoy the trip, post pictures here please and be safe

Patty
 
Might have to build me a custom holster, but the caliber, well, nuf said. :D

DisplayPic.aspx
 
Given what you listed, take the .44 . . . if you have an unfriendly encounter with a Griz, use your rifle.
 
ArcherandShooter,

I just read this article and I'm having second thoughts about the .45:

http://www.predatorxtreme.com/articles.asp?ArticleID=276

TV often portrays black bears as cute, cuddly “teddy bears.” Aaron Wyckoff and friends know better.



Fifteen-year-old Chris Moen, of Glide, Oregon, had a bear tag, so his father Pete took him hunting recently, about seven miles east of town, in the rugged foothills of the Cascade Mountains. Chris spotted a large bear and knocked it down with a shoulder hit from his .338. But the big bruin bounced back up and was swallowed by the area’s dense rain-forest brush.

Chris and Pete searched awhile, then decided they needed help. Since a state anti-hunting law doesn’t allow the use of dogs for bear hunting, they rounded up three friends.

Aaron Wyckoff, Justin Norton and Eddie Swartz, all from Glide, returned with Pete and Chris to the scene and spread out to search for the dead bear.

Here’s what happened next according to Swartz:

Wyckoff climbed a low rocky bluff to get a better view. It seems that bear had a similar idea. Wyckoff heard a grunt behind him, whirled, made a fast-draw of his .45 A.C.P. and planted a bullet on the forehead of the charging bear. The bear flattened Wyckoff and jumped on top of him.

Wyckoff, a lefty, fired three more quick rounds into the bear as it chewed on his right arm. Wyckoff then jammed the pistol under the bear’s chin, but inadvertently ejected the pistol’s magazine, rendering the gun useless.

Wyckoff next tried to escape by rolling off the bluff, but the bear grabbed his leg, pulled him back up and went for Wyckoff’s groin. Wyckoff rammed his empty pistol and hand into the bear’s mouth to protect the rest of himself.

The other men immediately rushed in to help, and upon seeing the melee, Norton fired a round from his .44 Magnum revolver into the bear’s body. He then stepped right up to the struggling mass of bear and man, shoved his revolver’s muzzle behind the bear’s ear—and ended the fight.

Although Wyckoff feared the bear’s attack on his groin had severed his femoral artery, a quick inspection revealed shredded jeans but little blood.

The others rushed Wyckoff to the hospital, where surgeons repaired the damage to his arm, leg and groin. After a couple of days in the hospital, Wyckoff is resting at home, grateful for the quick actions of his friends—and Norton’s .44 Magnum.
The bear weighed 260 pounds, field dressed, and its hide is at a taxidermist, being turned into a trophy rug. Will these men hunt bears again?

“Oh sure, Wyckoff said, “the fall season opens August 1.”

Author’s note: That first bullet from Aaron Wyckoff’s .45 A.C.P. lodged in the bear’s forehead, with little penetration. His wife has given him permission to buy and carry a larger handgun.
Click to expand...
 
Your rifle is your best bet, along with understanding and abiding by the rules of bear avoidance/deterrence, including use of the buddy system during any wet work or meat handling. The .45 ACP is no good, especially against a grizzly skull, the .357 is better, but a K frame S&W may not stand up to the pounding of max loads, which you will need to use AND be proficient(practice,practice) with. .44Mag is better, but you will be about as likely to bring your rifle into play as a 9inch revolver. Remember, until you get into the seriously heavy revolvers (S&W .500 or .460 Mags, for example) do you even begin to get on the scale of mild rifle power. I hope the .223 advice was not to be taken seriously, as most bears wouldn't....yes,yes, I know you can kill anything with anything on a good day, which you won't be having in the unlikely event of an attack by an 800lb bear!
 
That's where the buddy system in bear country comes in...you do not get involved in field dressing w/o a sentinel who remains armed. You would be unlikely to be able to effectively handle a handgun while bloody to the elbows either!
 
Depends. How far from the horse will you be stalking each day? If not more than a couple miles, I'd take the .44 mag. There's brown bear in yellowstone, and AFAIK, no fence to keep them in! :eek:
 
Here's how to choose between your guns:

1. If you really aren't sure if you'll need it or not, don't pack a handgun. It's hard enough climbing mountains without extra weight.

2. If you think you might need it, envision yourself with your foot in an angry bears mouth. At that time, of all your guns, which one would you wish to have? That's the one you should take.

KeithCarter
NRA Life
 
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