Autoloader choices for bear "deterrence"?
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BlindJustice
Member
FYI - The Danish Army put two man patrols on Greenland for monitoring
territory and Polar bears. They are armed with a .30-06 sniper rifle as well
as a GLock 20 - the large frame 10MM in case I got the model number wrong.
Of course their job is to observe and dis-engage.
I think it's a 60 Day "patrol"
THere's still some interesting duty stations on the edge
of wilderness out there. seems even with the Internet to make
it not so small a world
Randall
territory and Polar bears. They are armed with a .30-06 sniper rifle as well
as a GLock 20 - the large frame 10MM in case I got the model number wrong.
Of course their job is to observe and dis-engage.
I think it's a 60 Day "patrol"
THere's still some interesting duty stations on the edge
of wilderness out there. seems even with the Internet to make
it not so small a world
Randall
Was watching one o' them nature shows on TV from somewhere out west (Yellowstone?) & the park ranger said if you're attacked by a grizzly ball up and play dead since he may just be checking you out/playing with you. If you're attacked by a black bear, he said fight, as when a black bear attacks it's usually to kill.
True or not, I can't say, and hope to never find out!
BTW...saw another bear show a few nights ago where they've found a number of black bears killed/decapitated, etc in Yellowstone, and they now think there are grizzlies killing black bears.
Two Cold Soakers
Member
I got a S&W 1066 (95%) for under 400 dollars used. No ftf or fte (yet)
Actually carries IWB quite nicely, single stack and all, but a wicked DA trigger. Stainless, too.
I've carried it in the bush.
My opinion.
Actually carries IWB quite nicely, single stack and all, but a wicked DA trigger. Stainless, too.
I've carried it in the bush.
My opinion.
357wheelgunner
Member
4" S&W model 629 .44 magnum and a lot of practice.
If you have to carry an autoloader get a Glock 20, no question. It's got high capacity, and with some hot loaded solids it's probably your best bet for a bear defense handgun.
Also, the plastic will be easier on the bear's stomach after it eats you and your gun. You wouldn't want to cause him indigestion with a full steel sidearm.
If you have to carry an autoloader get a Glock 20, no question. It's got high capacity, and with some hot loaded solids it's probably your best bet for a bear defense handgun.
Also, the plastic will be easier on the bear's stomach after it eats you and your gun. You wouldn't want to cause him indigestion with a full steel sidearm.
razorblade31
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If you have to use an auto, the hottest 45 ACP+P, 10mm, 45 super would be a good idea. 5.7 would be a really bad one, if you checked the brassfetcher link, the deepest penetration was still under 12 inches, and bears are a lot tougher than people, so you'd get even less. I think a revolver would be the way to go though.
racerrck
Member
Go Big And You'll Go Home, nothing less than 44 magnum Never under estimate an animal that gets meaner when its wounded ie.. bear, cape buffalo,lion etc
Feanaro
Member
.460 Rowland.
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm
Load up some 230 grain hardcasts at about 1,200-1,300 FPS. Serious medicine. Or just get a revolver in .44 Magnum.
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm
Load up some 230 grain hardcasts at about 1,200-1,300 FPS. Serious medicine. Or just get a revolver in .44 Magnum.
That is a common myth about the .357 Sig. While it fast, light bullet is more likely to penetrate a steel plate, it isn't going to go as far in flesh, as a heavier, slower bullet from the .40 S&W.
Of course, either of them are entirely insufficient for bear. Any handgun is a means of last resort and very likely to just p_ss a bear off more.
For an autoloader you'd have to go with the 10mm or something loaded for 44 mag or 454 Casull or the like.
bestseller92
Member
I disagree with the notion that "any handgun is insufficient" for BLACK bears.
We're not talking grizzlies here, and while black bears can be tough to kill and bring down, one doesn't need the level of firepower you'd need with a grizzly or brown bear.
I for one would feel entirely comfortable in BLACK bear territory with a good .357 Magnum and appropriate loads.
We're not talking grizzlies here, and while black bears can be tough to kill and bring down, one doesn't need the level of firepower you'd need with a grizzly or brown bear.
I for one would feel entirely comfortable in BLACK bear territory with a good .357 Magnum and appropriate loads.
highlander 5
Member
Interesting discussion. I worked with a guy who was absolutely paranoid about running into black bears in the woods in Me. Asked my opinion on the subject told him "bear" minimum 357,if he can handle bigger even better. He settled on a 300gr cast bullet that he got from me that he fired from a 4" S&W. His biggest bitch was recoil. I am not a hunter but IMO if I were tramping around in the woods I'd want a revolver with the biggest,nastiest rounds I could shoot comfortably. Not to meant to be an insult to auto guys,but there are too many thing that MIGHT go wrong with an auto.YMMV
Drgong
Member
For Bear, I would not feel good if I did not say...
Get a wheel gun, .44 Mag or .45lc. This is something that wheelguns are well designed for. Autoloader rounds are great for soft skinned humans, not so great for Bear.
Or a lever gun with proper ammo.
Get a wheel gun, .44 Mag or .45lc. This is something that wheelguns are well designed for. Autoloader rounds are great for soft skinned humans, not so great for Bear.
Or a lever gun with proper ammo.
Orange_Magnum
member
An accurate 4" .357 magnum with a couple of loose speedloaders in your pocket beats an inaccurate .44 magnum. I think .357 magnum is for humans though. If I lived in bear country I'd own a 4" .44 magnum with speedloaders. In a semi-auto, look at Ruger P90 (.45 ACP). It was designed to eat +p. 10mm handguns tend to crack is my impression.
You want to carry the largest gun that you can afford, shoot accurately, reasonably carry and afford.
Ideally, you want a .30 rifle or 12 ga shotgun with slugs. I know of at least a couple of black bears that took several .308 rounds to the chest before collapsing. Even so, the .30-30 is a popular black bear hunting rifle.
So, if you are limited to a handgun you want one that best approaches .30 rifle performance. The .44 mag is pretty close to the .30-30 in terms of energy at close range, and throws a heavier, wider bullet. A 4" .44 mag with 270gr - 320 gr. bullets would be the ideal companion as a balance of size/weight and power.
If you don't want something that heavy and want an autoloader then go with bullets of most width and weight first, then speed. Weight equals penetration. Width equals tissue damage when using FMJ or hardcast SWC. The .45 ACP in 230 gr or the a 10mm in 200 gr would be the best common autoloader cartridges, especially if using high speed Double Tap or similar rounds.
Personally, here in the Pacific Northwest I think the chance of tangling with a black bear is low and humans pretty high, so I carry my G23 .40S&W with Double Tap 200 gr FMJ at about 1,000 fps, with backup mags using plain 180 gr FMJ at 950 fps. When I go into an area known to be infested with large black bears unafraid of humans then I carry a much heavier 4" .44 mag with 320 gr JSP or hardcast LSWC and consider the extra weigth as good physical conditioning.
Ideally, you want a .30 rifle or 12 ga shotgun with slugs. I know of at least a couple of black bears that took several .308 rounds to the chest before collapsing. Even so, the .30-30 is a popular black bear hunting rifle.
So, if you are limited to a handgun you want one that best approaches .30 rifle performance. The .44 mag is pretty close to the .30-30 in terms of energy at close range, and throws a heavier, wider bullet. A 4" .44 mag with 270gr - 320 gr. bullets would be the ideal companion as a balance of size/weight and power.
If you don't want something that heavy and want an autoloader then go with bullets of most width and weight first, then speed. Weight equals penetration. Width equals tissue damage when using FMJ or hardcast SWC. The .45 ACP in 230 gr or the a 10mm in 200 gr would be the best common autoloader cartridges, especially if using high speed Double Tap or similar rounds.
Personally, here in the Pacific Northwest I think the chance of tangling with a black bear is low and humans pretty high, so I carry my G23 .40S&W with Double Tap 200 gr FMJ at about 1,000 fps, with backup mags using plain 180 gr FMJ at 950 fps. When I go into an area known to be infested with large black bears unafraid of humans then I carry a much heavier 4" .44 mag with 320 gr JSP or hardcast LSWC and consider the extra weigth as good physical conditioning.
WA_SIG
Member
When I was in the Navy stationed on Kodiak in the 60's, we were not allowed to go hiking without at least a .44 mag revolver. I still have that gun.
Some guys carried '06 rifles or slugged shotguns.
Some guys carried '06 rifles or slugged shotguns.
KBintheSLC
Member
You said you would rather stay away from Glocks, but I believe that the G20 in 10mm is a fantastic option. I have one for my backpacking gun, and it is perfect for enduring the elements... and reliable, high cap, accurate, affordable, and easy to shoot well with.
I don't really see much to "stay away" from.
Uhh... not all of 'em.
That depends on the caliber and the ammo choice. A 115gr 9mm FMJ would suck against a Black Bear, but a hot 10mm auto flinging 200grs FMJ-FP at 1250fps will most certainly do the job. Hell, you are approaching a full 24" of penetration and 700+ft/lbs with that round. I see no problem using it... Lets not forget that I can squeeze off about five of those in the time I can push out one 44 mag out of a big revolver.
After buying my Glock 20, I will no longer carry my 44 anywhere in the lower 48.
Drgong
Member
10mm might be the only one that could approch the idea of stopping a bear. And does have the advantage of quicker firing/reloading
If your just worried about black bear, you might be able to get by with .357Mag or a 10mm. For other types of bear, .44 Mag. I prefer to have .44 Mag if it was my hide.
If your just worried about black bear, you might be able to get by with .357Mag or a 10mm. For other types of bear, .44 Mag. I prefer to have .44 Mag if it was my hide.
Comanche180
Member
Bear defense
I live in the East, I don't hunt. I have spent a bunch of time in the west(Canadian Rockies) in the back country. We made sure to educate ourselves about how to behave in grizzly country. It paid off. We met Mr Grizz in the woods and we all went away alive. At 71 feet distance he was big, especially when up on his hind feet. No gun was needed that day which was good because we didn't have one with us. If I thought it was necessary I would want a big bore and high velocity, something on the lines of a .44 magnum. I'm a semi auto shooter and don't own any wheel guns but I would make that exception. To tell the truth I would be more afraid of a black bear. And those are plentiful up here in Maine. The .44 magnum would go to that show too.
I live in the East, I don't hunt. I have spent a bunch of time in the west(Canadian Rockies) in the back country. We made sure to educate ourselves about how to behave in grizzly country. It paid off. We met Mr Grizz in the woods and we all went away alive. At 71 feet distance he was big, especially when up on his hind feet. No gun was needed that day which was good because we didn't have one with us. If I thought it was necessary I would want a big bore and high velocity, something on the lines of a .44 magnum. I'm a semi auto shooter and don't own any wheel guns but I would make that exception. To tell the truth I would be more afraid of a black bear. And those are plentiful up here in Maine. The .44 magnum would go to that show too.
Two Cold Soakers
Member
Frankly, I'm more sceerd of skunks than bears.
Drgong
Member
Still say .44 mag...
weisse52
Member
My gosh, I do not think some of you have hunted anything! I have shot deer with 12 guage slugs through the lungs that keep running, and they were not thinking about killing me. I saw a buck take a slug through the heart and it still ran 50 yards before it realized it was dead. A shotgun slug has more power than most of the calibers that have been mentioned here.
About the bottom line caliber wise.
Do any of you really think you are going to have time to reload if you are charged? If you do your research you will find they come fast, at short distances and you have seconds to react.
Check out the link:
http://dwb.adn.com/front/story/5591480p-5522882c.html
Took five rounds from a .44 mag to stop this bear. Some of these suggestions are just reckless. I would love to see even one bear guide that would even consider taking someone on a hunt with some of the suggestions that have been made.
I have heard some stories of people killing bears with some pretty small calibers. I have read of Eskimo's killing Polar Bears with .22 hornet. But I do believe these where ambush kills.
If you are really serious about stopping a bear then you better plan on going big. It is really unlikely that you will need to stop a charging bear, but if you do, do you really want to go with something that "should have stopped that bear"? Your life is no place to work on theory...
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