New C&R advice thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
AZAndy

AZAndy

Member
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
2,066
Location
Prescott, AZ, USA
Howdy friends,

There were a rash of C&R-related threads last year, and they convinced me I needed one. I got one, thanks to the help and motivation provided here, and have been gleefully employing it ever since-- three rifles, four handguns (one of which I actually got via UPS, which was a very satisfying experience), and quite a bit of savings through dealer discounts offered by some vendors (which I used for miscellaneous gun parts, reloading equipment, and so on).

So, for those of you who might be curious about the FFL 03 license, here's a refresher:

The Curio and Relics Collector license does not allow you to deal in guns. It's just for collecting purposes. Anytime you use the license to buy a gun, that transaction must be recorded in a bound book. The BATFE people have a right to inspect that book.

Having a license means that you can get a rifle in the mail. (I mean "mail" loosely, it might include other delivery methods besides the postal service.) It also means that you can get a handgun in the mail. Yes, really. Here's the catch: the rifle or pistol in question must be either (a) 50 or more years old or (b) on the ATF "collector's list."

Having a license also means that you can establish a "dealer's account" with a lot of providers of gun parts and sundries. Discounts are not limited to gun parts, mind you, they extend to just about everything a place like Midway (for example) has.

So, interested? Here's where to start: http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm


Select the form on the right panel that's labeled "F 7CR" and fill out the contact info on the main portion of the page. You will receive the application in the mail. If you need advice on how to fill out the form, don't hesitate to ask here on this most helpful site-- we crudgy crufflers will be glad to help, I have no doubt.

Let us all sing the praises of the C&R, that our unmet friends here might be helped unto its joys!
 
Last edited:
As unseemly as it may be to reply to my own Thread Starter Sourdough Yeast Kit, I forgot to mention this little benefit that many overlook: Your pals at the Treasury Department will, out of the kindness of their hearts, send you a stack of legal reading material shortly after you get the license. It includes the federal gun regulations. All of them. It also includes the latest state regulations, which will be out of date, of course, since the states change things more often than the feds do, but interesting reading nonetheless. Included, as a no-cost, totally free bonus to you because you're really special, will be address-change and renewal forms (retail value $4979.95!). Postage not included. Act now and get a free ice crusher.
 
any idea what to do if they just cash your check, take your money, and send you nothing in return for 4 months and counting?
 
Give them a call and ask for an update. Four months seems an unusually long tome, though not unheard of.

We inmates here in the Peoples Republic of Maryland seem to be getting the license in 3 - 4 weeks.
 
Nice post AZAndy. Many little perks for 10 bucks a year--and MANY more specialized ones depending on local laws, etc. And of course, copping some tickets to the SHOT SHOW if you are so inclined (I'm not). AND it works for the 'live fire' part of purchases from the CMP...

You can also impress people that have NO IDEA what a C/R is.
 
I think I need to look into this. I am just afraid of what it will do to my bank account. What are some of the goodies one can get with a C&R? SKS's Mosin's ect....
 
It took 2 and half months from the time they cashed my check to get the license. Now I'm debateing myself if I want to get an Enfield or a pair of Nagant revolvers. :)

Don't forgot that Midway, Brownells, and Numrich Gunparts will give you a discount on certain items; so make sure you send them a copy.
 
Could someone explain "live fire purchases from CMP"? Normally, you have to be a member of a club, have a certificate that you completed a shooting course, etc. Is all that negated by having a C&R FFL??? Can you just walk into the CMP store and buy a boatload of guns?
 
blkbrd666: No, not exactly that at all. However--the 2 things (apart from the not being a criminal, etc) needed to buy from CMP boil down to 1) joining a club (list on CMP site--you write a check--you're in a club (I joined the Illinois State Rifle Association, as an example) and 2) having fulfilled the 'live fire'/ shooting experience via proof of military service, safe shooting course, cmp clinic (big fun regardless if nearby)--also on the list is being a C/R type 3 FFL.

I mean, the logic being that 99.99 % of people who would bother to apply for and get a C/R are educated enough (through their own efforts or experience) to KNOW the safe functioning basics of firearms. In spite of this, the C/R could
be obtained by someone who in fact new nothing about firearms and in fact had never touched one.

The C/R affords one absolutely *NO* special anything with the CMP--EXCEPT that it can 'count' as the shooting requirement in lieu of doing a CMP clinic shoot, a DD-214, etc.
You have to do the NICS check like everyone else--but no big deal.
 
AZAndy, good summary! I think one point needs clarification, though. You said:

The Curio and Relics Collector license does not allow you to deal in guns. It's just for collecting purposes. Anytime you use the license to buy a gun, that transaction must be recorded in a bound book. The BATFE people have a right to inspect that book.
Click to expand...

I believe you must record any C&R-eligible firearm acquisition after you get the license, even if your C&R license played no part in getting it (inheriting a 65-year old rifle, for example). Also, you must record the disposition of any C&R-eligible firearm you get rid of, even if you owned it before you got the license. The bound book must be used to record all C&R acquisitions/disposals during the time the license is valid.

You don't have to add any C&R firearms you already possessed when you got the license (unless you dispose of one).
 
What surprised me about the application is that it asks if you possess a hunting license. Then it says if you don't you probably shouldn't have the C&R.

What's up with that?
 
What surprised me about the application is that it asks if you possess a hunting license. Then it says if you don't you probably shouldn't have the C&R.

What's up with that?


Huh??? I don't remember THAT part AT ALL???

Are you sure it's not part of the form that applies only to foreign nationals residing in the US seeking a C/R??
 
I filled out the forms last night, and I am going to address the envelops in about an hour and get them in the mail tomorrow.

That question 10, about the non immigrant Alien certification part did confuse me a little. It does not say to skip it if you are not an Alien. I followed along with a step by step thing I found on the internet and it said to put your name for 10. A, and then skip parts B and C. So that is what I did.

Does that sound right?
 
It also means that you can get a handgun in the mail.
Click to expand...

No, no, and again no. An 03 (C&R FFL) does not allow you to mail handguns. The USPS and ATF are very clear on this.

What the feds say:

Such articles (handguns) also may be conveyed in the mails to manufacturers of firearms or bona fide dealers therein in customary trade shipments, including such articles for repairs or eplacement of parts, from one to the other, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe.


What the Postal Service says:

11.1.3 Authorized Persons

Subject to 11.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:
a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.
b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.
c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.
e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.
f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e.

11.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee

Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 11.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:
a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.
b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.
c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.
d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e, Authorized Persons.

11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers

Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

Some people point to this and say: Ah ha! "Curios" are mailable, and I have a Curio and relic license!

11.2 Antique Firearms

Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6.

But this does not work because it refers to antique firearms only and antiques are defined as:

"Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

As you correctly pointed out, an 03 FFL is not a dealer, sorry.
 
I have been considering applying for the 03 FFL as well. A friend of mine had his FFL (he was a home based dealer) let it expire because he didn't want the ATF coming into his home for inspections. Anyway, he said that with the 03, they can come in at any time to do an inspection. Is this true? I don't like the idea of the government being able to come into my home any time they want to. I was mostly looking into this for the discounts at Midway, Brownell's, etc. anyway.

So, for those of you with an 03 FFL, have you had to go through inspections? How often do they happen? How bad are they? Would it be worth it just for the discounts?

Thanks
 
The ATF rarely does inspections of type-3 FFL's. And no, they can't come in at 'any time' they want; in fact, if they select you for a once-a-year inspection they offer to let you go to their field office to comply at your option (easier for them). Offentimes, they do their thing via a phone interview.

Obviously, if someone does something illegal and stupid (like ordering crates of milsurps on their C/R and selling them out the backdoor) they would have problems with the ATF.

As I see it, an ATF agent charged with inspecting type-3's has a nice gig; not risky and good bennefits--WHY would they want to reduce the number of folks seeking type 3's by being especially nasty about things?
If we stop renewing en masse, they loose what (I imagine) is a pretty safe recession-proof job.

Yes, it's worth it.
 
The BATFE took my $30 for my C7R renewal in Feb. Promptly lost it, never contact me, and when I finally called about it last week told me the money was sitting in my account and I should re-apply for a brand new license. So if it has been more than 3-4 months, CALL. Their taking of your money means nothing other than they received your packet and the "step one" monkey cashed the check or debited the account.
 
Gator: Perhaps you missed this part of what I said: "I mean "mail" loosely, it might include other delivery methods besides the postal service." I was using "mail" in a generic sort of way, like "Kleenex" for "tissues." You can certainly receive a handgun via UPS. I just did, last week. Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part.
 
I've got the forms right here on my desk for mine. My only concern is the number of addresses I've had in the last 5 years (which is 5). Should I keep writing in the address column into the next row or put the ones that don't fit in the box on a different sheet of paper? And if so, does it matter how I do that? I just don't want it to get sent back over something stupid like that.
 
You can certainly receive a handgun via UPS. I just did, last week. Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part.
Click to expand...

Of course you can, I never said otherwise. USPS is the only service that "mails" anything, everyone else ships. Words mean things, and its important for new "Crufflers" to know the difference. :)
 
"The Curio and Relics Collector license does not allow you to deal in guns. It's just for collecting purposes. Anytime you use the license to buy a gun, that transaction must be recorded in a bound book. The BATFE people have a right to inspect that book."

The only nit I can pick is that the BATFE doesn't have the "right" to inspection. They have the authority.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
C&R license - any "discounts" given?
Replies
23
Views
1K
cliffstanc
C
D
  • Locked
Not sure where else to put this: C&R license question (mixup)
Replies
8
Views
591
Deer Hunter
D
Y
  • Locked
Midway USA and C&R licenses
Replies
22
Views
4K
vandal968
V
L
  • Locked
The Ultimate C&R Dealer/Distributor list
Replies
20
Views
38K
RustyFN
R
J
  • Locked
A few C&R questions
Replies
11
Views
844
AmbulanceDriver
A
Back
Top