TT-33 Questions

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kingpin008

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Howdy folks -

I've really been considering putting in the application for my C&R license lately, mostly because I've been daydreaming about picking up a TT-33 or two. For some reason, the second I first saw a picture of a TT-33, I've had it sitting in the back of my mind, waiting for some reason to finally get one.

I haven't done much reading on the TT-33 or the 7.62 Tokarev round in awhile, but everything I remember reading (decent to excellent performance for a pistol round, surplus ammo easily available) really makes me think that this might be my next purchase.

So, I have a few questions for you good folks -

First, what's the ammo situation looking like for 7.62 Tokarev lately? Has the supply been holding up, or is it starting to get scarce, possibly to the point where it's not as worth it anymore?

And as a follow-up to that question: what's the best ammo to look for? As far as surplus, and commercially produced?

And lastly, is there any advice ya'll can give me as to what to look out for when ordering my first TT-33? I've heard that the Chinese versions are known for beating themselves to pieces pretty rapidly, is this true?

Thanks for the help!
 
I have a Romanian and it has been a great pistol. I shoot the surplus ammo almost exclusively. It is cheap and pretty good. You can get the Romanian ammo for about 9 cents a round and the Bulgarian for 8 cents a round. Just be sure to clean the gun with some windex and then oil it well.
The only complaint that I have is the safety. It is terrible. Don't lose the pin, or you are in trouble.
The TOK shoots well and is fun.
K.
 
I bought my Romainian Tok from Bruce @ New Philly Sports.

I noticed recently he now has some Polish Toks: http://www.newphillysports.com/PolishTok.html

I'd buy a Polish one in a heart beat if I had some free cash. I've taken my Tok to the range every trip since I bought it. It's displaced my Runger Mk I as my cheap-to-shoot gun. Ammo doesn't seem to be a problem. I haven't found a local source but Aim has tons of it in stock.
 
I have a Polish TT33 and love it. It is a very well made pistol with an excellent finish. The pistol is SUPER accurate especially with privi or S&B ammo.

I have shot both bulgarian and romanian ammo w/o any problems. there seems to be a very good supply of it for reasonable prices (.08-.09 cents/round). Personally I grab a tin of romanian (1224 rounds) EVERY time I see a good price at a gun show, since it is surplus and thus a finite quantity!
 
I have the Romanian and really like it....very accurate... it actually fits my hand better than my CZ52 which I also like.

and I buy cheap surplus ammo....latest purchase was 1224 rounds for $115..yes the price of surplus has gone up like everything else.... still a good deal
 
Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll have to get off my butt and finally put my C&R application in.

FOOLISHNESS...COMPLETELY FALSE.

Ok, then how about telling me more about your experience, or evidence you've heard to the contrary, instead of doing what amounts to yelling. It helps if you actually have information to share, instead of just dropping in and calling someone foolish. :)
 
Not you, but internet rumors that get floated around are FOOLISHNESS. Military/captured PRC Tokarevs are not known for their great finish, but in years of owning, shooting, and studying Tokarevs (including Chinese) I have never heard of any excessive wear or beating problems with Chinese Tokarev pistols. Now CZ52s, that's another story.
 
For the extra $60 ($219 @ SOG vs $279 @ New Philly) I would get the Polish Tok over the Romanian! The safety on the polish versions is almost non existant in feel compared to the romanian! My 1954 Polish tok is just scary accurate with Privi or S&B ammo.
 
Jonnyc - Thanks for the clarification. I have read about instances of Chinese Tok's having issues, but it's entirely possible that it's less likely than I was brought to believe.

WnyCollector - I'll take that into consideration, thanks!
 
Jonnyc - I don't have any specific threads saved, this is just something I remember reading more than once in various places as I started researching various C&R pistols. Like I said, it could be wrong, it could be an exaggeration - I'm not sure. But I had heard of it being an issue, so I brought it up.

Bufford - Google (and Wikipedia) is your friend. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TT-33

Basically, the TT-33 is a semi-auto pistol designed to take the place of the Nagant revolvers. The round it fires is known for (among other things) it's ability to defeat soft body armor, and for just being a nice little round in general.
 
No problem. :) Yeah, it's interesting. I've never shot or even handled one before, but I love the looks of it, and pretty much everything I've read about the design and the cartridge it shoots has been positive.
 
Thanks kingpin008, The gun shoots really well, it's accurate once you get used to the heavy trigger.

The 7.62 X 25 round is a little screamer, fast & very loud with a huge "fun factor".:D
 
Get one. Get a few thousand rounds. You won't regret it (and go to Wal-Mart and buy some Windex Too)


Gee...I hope this doesn't get locked for a Wal-Mart reference:uhoh:
 
I have two polish TT-33 pistols. One I keep in the original 7.62x25 and the other has a surplus 9mm barrel in it. Both function flawlessly and are very accurate. The 762 ammo situation is still very good but be careful because a lot of it is corrosive. The 762 is very fun to shoot and has great penetration but in order for it to reach its potential you need hollow or soft point projectiles. I've been reloading my own from fired commercial ammo but I think I saw either Wolf or Silver Bear turning some out. You should definitely get one. Consider the 9mm barrel as well. I just drop it in and use the same magazines. When I first did this I anticipated some feeding problems but have experienced none. As for the Chinese version, my best friend had a Norinco and it did self destruct after several thousand rounds. It developed a crack on the slide just over the hammer and another on the frame along the front just under the slide. But, as a disclaimer, this is the only Norinco TT-33 I have any experience with.
 
I bought two of the Chinese Tokarevs in 9mm back more than 15 years ago. One is still in the box, the other is still going strong with more than 55,000 rounds through it. It is the most accurate and reliable pistol I own.
I've also bought one of the Romanians, and I've converted an extra 9mm barrel and bushing so as to fire the 9x23 Winchester round through it. This has ballistics equal to the 357 Magnum.
Great guns, I use them as my carry guns.
 
While Romanian TT-33s are more abundant nowadays than Russian, Polish, & Chinese TTs, the Polish & Norinco examples are of the best quality from what I've seen. Russian Tula Tokarevs are good, don't get me wrong; they are just a little rougher around the edges.

I started off my Tokarev collection with a '52 Radom Wz48 (Polish designation), which has the wart-like added safety.
In short order, I discovered what could be the Tokarev's only weakness; the slide-stop retaining clip.

Because the slide-stop relies upon the retaining clip's spring-action to keep it from jumping & catching the slide on recoil, the clip should only be installed open end towards the muzzle. When whoever drilled the frame to accept the add-on safety, not enough clearance was left for the raised end of the retaining clip to slide fully past the safety-lever flange. So whoever that was, they also nipped a corner off of the raised end of the retaining clip, so that it would slide past the safety-lever flange & fully seat.

That weakend the retaining clip. As I tried to slide the clip back and disassemble the pistol for the first time, the retaining clip snapped at the end portion which had been nipped (w/ a pair of dikes apparently :scrutiny: ). I wanted to at least fire the thing, because I had a day off and just bought a couple boxes of 7.62. I went to Home Depot and found some 1/4" e-clips that would snap nicely on the end of the slide-stop to retain it inside the frame. The Wz48 would fire, but because the e-clips didn't apply any tension onto the slide-stop, it would catch the slide after every 1 or 2 shots.

Eventually I got a replacement retaining clip from Marstar Canada, and I first tried to install the retaining clip w/ open end facing backwards. This made the slide-stop immovable. So to install it correctly & make it past the safety-lever flange, I had to relieve the raised corner on the retaining clip slightly. This I did with a dremel, and I only took enough off to barely make it past the flange. Since then it's fired over 500rds, disassembled many times for cleaning, and the retaining clip hasn't broken.

Then I bought a stainless steel Norinco Model-213 9mm in unfired condition. Polish Tokarev-clones are known for their quality, yet the Chicom 213 has a tighter slide-to-frame & barrel-bushing fit than my Wz48. On both handguns, I could find no burrs or rough milling on any internal surfaces, most especially the feed-ramps, cartridge guides, mag well, and recoil-spring frame recess. Both have the ATF-mandated added safeties, but the Model-213 has a small lever at the rear of the frame, under the hammer. This safety is not only more attractive, but also easier & quicker to manipulate than the wart-like lever found on other Combloc Tokarevs.

In the 4 months (or so) that I've owned the 213, I've fired about 1k rounds with it (give/take 100rds), and tested a wide variety of defensive cartridges, along with mostly Blazer CCI FMJ for practice. The Norinco has never failed to feed, fire, extract, or eject.

Though it has a small magazine capacity & is primitive compared to modern 9mm handguns, the Model-213 is currently my carry piece. That the Tokarev design is simple, accurate, robust and reliable makes it good enough for me. I would like to find a Norinco Model-213A, which accepts a double-stack 14rd magazine, but I have yet to see one for-sale.
And as Mastiff has done, there's the relatively easy option to chamber a 9mm barrel for 9x23 Win. I'm sooooo there, as soon as I can scrape enough quarters & dimes together for a spare barrel.

Some sources I've read have stated that Tokarevs are unsafe to carry in condition-1, due to the lack of any manual safety/firing-pin/hammer block. But along with others who are familiar with the Tokarev & carry it as their primary sidearm, I don't see anything lacking in the design which makes it unsafe. This is due not only to the added safety which blocks or disconnects the trigger/sear, but the half-cock feature as well. If the handgun is dropped/jarred enough to release the hammer from full-cock, as long as there is no constant pressure on the trigger/sear it will catch at the half-cock notch.
Carrying a Tokarev at half-cock with one in the chamber IS dangerous, however; I've heard of it being done, and it defeats the purpose of the half-cock notch. The Russians tested the Tokarev's half-cock safety by dropping them off of 3-story buildings onto concrete, and one collector I know of has tested a TT-33 by repeatedly & directly beating the cocked hammer with a mallet & 2x4; both failed in trying to get the hammer/sear to release. I myself have tested the half-cock with my Wz48, and the hammer never fell past the safety notch. I did this with a replacement hammer/sear unit on-hand, which I used to replace the original unit. By replacing it after repeatedly letting the hammer slam into the half-cock notch, I didn't want to risk carrying with a stressed safety mechanisim.

Anyways, I've found the Tokarev to be a comfortable carry handgun. It's slender so it doesn't print easily or surgically jab me in the kidneys upon sitting, it's not too heavy, and I like the fact that it naturally shoots a little low. Mozambique drills are a snap because of that I've found, and while the sights are easily adequate, it's easy to finger-point aim or sight down the slide. All that, for $170. But the Tokarev is the most fun at the range, and will provide many, many hours/years of shooting enjoyment. :)

Another forum member helped me get a muzzle-compensator for my Wz48 from Makarov.com before they went under, which was very cool. As mentioned by others here, 7.62x25 TT-33s have very little recoil as is, but the compensator makes it negligible.... and even more fun, especially in low-light. :D

Wz48_Comp_Sm.jpg
 
How about longevity and gunsmithing?

I am interested in one of these, for the fun and history factor, as well as some cheaper plinking. Do they hold up to use? How many cases of ammo would you purchase with one? Have people reported cracked frames or slides? And if you get a lemon which isn't ready to fire after you clean it and strip it, who would you recommend sending it to for repairs if you aren't handy enough to do yourself?

For some reason I'm ok using my Mosin, assuming it will last forever. Something about semi auto pistols strike me as a bit more delicate to stand up to real use.

Any thoughts? AIM has Polish in stock...
 
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