Is the 12 really needed?

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Now, it's easy enough to get a nice 7 lb. 12 Gauge from various vendors in any configuration you want. I wouldn't buy an 8 lb.

Remington claims their 12 gauge Wingmaster with a 30" barrel weighs 7.5 pounds. I just weighed my 18" barreled Wingmaster and it's at 8 pounds with five rounds of 3" 000 buck in it. That's about as light as I want to go with a 12 gauge pump. I've handled some lighter pumps, and I can only speculate that they are unpleasant to shoot with anything heavier than a 1 ounce load, at least in the context of something you plan on shooting all day. Even with a good recoil pad, recoil fatigue will set in after a while.

Remington also claims their 20 gauge Wingmaster weighs 6.5 pounds. I'm not pulling mine out of the safe to check, but it feels LOTS lighter than the 12. It swings faster and is a whole lot more pleasant to carry all day. I never have warmed up to it since it's field performance is seriously lacking in my hands. Breaking clays isn't much of a problem, but live birds are a different matter.

Oddly enough, I just checked my 1958 production 16 gauge Wingmaster and found it to weigh in at 6 pounds, even though it's built on the same receiver as the 12 gauge. I'll make a guess that the utility grade walnut furniture and short ribbed fore end are mostly the reason why. My gun was the very basic model and not one of the nicer ones...back then several grades of the Wingmaster were offered. Remington no longer offers the 16 gauge in the Wingmaster, so there isn't anything to compare mine to(unless you consider the Express comparable, and I don't).

Not long ago I had the chance to pick up a brand new 1100 in 16 gauge for around $400. It appears I should have because the Remington website no longer lists them. :(

If you want to get into doubles, the real beauty of the 16 comes out. Some of these are built on a 20 gauge frame, making them even lighter and more lively in the hands.

As I said in my previous post, manufacturers have done nearly everything possible to kill the 16. The only pump I can find chambered for it is the Remington 870 Express.:barf: Autoloaders? Gone. Over/unders? Maybe. SxS? There are a few left.

*Note--I don't address autoloaders because I don't use them much. My ideal dove gun would be Franchi 48AL in 16 with a full set of fixed choke barrels, so long as it was scaled down properly and not built on a 12 gauge receiver. Even if it was, I could probably get along with it since they're already pretty light. Of course, Franchi no longer offers the 48AL in 12 gauge, with the only two chamberings being 20 and 28 gauge.
 
I just posted this because it's been a few days since I saw a "what's the use for a 20, 16 or 10 gauge?"

Great thread Okie, I love to hear ya'll come out swinging for your favorites. I own and hunt with them all from 10 to 410 and love every one of them for a different reason. I got an Ithaca 37 Ultrafeatherlight 20 ga. I'm Itchin to try on Dove this year.:)


Okay, so today I ordered and paid for a 10 gauge. It will be for geese.

Okay MC, which 10 did you order? The suspence is killin' me.:confused:
 
If I need more power out of a 20 gauge light gun, I can always stick 3" loads in it. They don't pattern THAT bad and carry a 1 1/4 oz lead charge. I have a 12 gauge double with 3" chambers that is under 7 lbs and I used it a lot on ducks and geese back in the days of lead legality.

I like light shotguns, but some jobs, you just don't need light. Geese and turkey come to mind. More weight means less recoil, a good thing in 10 gauge or 12 gauge 3.5". Gas guns do help.
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Okay, so today I ordered and paid for a 10 gauge. It will be for geese.

Okay MC, which 10 did you order? The suspence is killin' me.

I went cheap and got the H&R single shot. Came with a screw in choke, 30" barrel, 9 lbs. I figure I'll use it now and look for a deal on a used BPS at a gun show in the future should I like it on geese. It was a bit over 200 bucks. I checked out the NEF site, offer a rifle sight slug barrel, 24", for just 60 bucks. I know how bad 12 gauge slugs kick in that light weight double 12 and that's 2 3/4" ones. I'm wondering if I'll need one of those gymnastics pads behind me if I cap off a 3.5" 10 gauge slug in that thing. OUCH! LOL
 
Yeah, shoot that turkey at 40 yards with a 20 gauge and get back to me.

Strangely enough thats just about exactly how I took my first turkey. I walked it out to around 120 feet from where I shot to where the turkey got hit. This was with a 3" shell if that makes any difference.
 
3" 20 does a good job on ducks. People say it doesn't pattern. I guess it depends on the gun. My little Spartan shoots a pretty tight pattern with the I/C choke and Number 4 3" high speed. It's MORE than enough for teal. It don't pack enough big steel shot for serious consideration on bigger waterfowl, but you generally are shooting lead 6s on turkey. The 3" 20 will hold as much shot as the 2 3/4" heavy 12 gauge load so long as it patterns well. Some say it won't, don't know about other guns, just mine.
 
What's the point of the 12ga?

Well, I don't know. Whats the point of the 20 ga?

My opinion is that there are only 3 shotguns that are really necessary...the 10ga, the 16ga, and the 28ga. And the 16 will handle 75% of everything you need a shotgun for. The big ten probably 20%, and the 28ga is of limited use.

People start thinking the 20ga isn't quite enough for them so what do they do? they invent the 20ga magnum! That's just silly when all you had to do was move up to the 16. They did the same thing with the 12. Now we have 3.5" magnums. It makes no sense. people should've just moved up to the ten instead of the 3.5" shells.

imo, the ideal all around shotgun shell would be a short 10ga only 2" long or maybe even slightly shorter.
 
I do not hunt anymore and I have given up on buckshot. I really just like the size of the holes that 12 gauge slugs make and the distance I can make them from.
 
machinisttx-

Just look at something besides a Remington or certain Brownings.

Those ARE guns from 1958, or earlier.

The 105CTi from Remington is a 7 lb. 28" 12 Gauge. It's a modern gun.

The 870 hails from 1950; the 11-87 is a direct descendant of the Sportsman 58.

Look at modern guns like Benellis, Berettas (even an all-steel 28" 12 Gauge O/U is under 7 lb.), etc. Franchi's lightweight O/U's come in even lighter. Ruger's Gold Label SxS 12 Gauge weighs 6.5 lb.

imo, the ideal all around shotgun shell would be a short 10ga only 2" long or maybe even slightly shorter.

People get too hung up on the shell when it's the gun that matters more. Handling matters, and I have no interest in a 10 Gauge, no matter what the shell length is. If I take up goose hunting where shots are long, I might suck it up and get a 10, but probably not otherwise.
 
I use a .410 for 90% of my shotgun hunting and chores....the 12ga. does 10% of my hunting/chores and 100% of my homestead defense....get rid of a 12?.....for a 10?....or 16?....or 20?.....why?.....I certainly can't buy 10ga/16ga shells very easily, 20 is lacking in many ways just as certainly as the .410 is, and 12ga. is cheapest/most-available.....no brainer, here.....and Loomis, a .410 pretty much dupes a 28 on paper and in the field, press be hanged.
 
No, none are really needed, as long as you eliminate just every other one. 16 and 10 would suffice, as well as the smaller ones.

I use:

--12 gauge for home defense, turkeys, and waterfowl (2.75" for home defense, 3.0" for turkeys, and either type for waterfowl, depending)
--20 gauge for pheasant, quail, dove, rabbit, squirrel
--.410 - don't really use it, except for clearing feeders of raiders like squirrels, crows, & such (short range, not wing shooting).

14 gauge? Cool; had never heard of that...interesting.
 
Guns are a little like women. None are quite the same, not all are best at one particular task. They come in all shapes and sizes and somebody loves most every one of them.

Also, in order to meet societal standards, we are all required to choose just one and stick by through good times and bad.

At least, you'd think so from threads like this.
 
Absolutely. A 12 gauge shotgun is the most versitile gun of all the gauges. There is absolutely no hunting you cannot do with a 12 gauge shotgun.
 
As a 20 gauge shooter.. I will admit the 12 is dominant.. You cannot find a wider range of loadings, game, or fun loads (bird bombs, rubber) to shoot out of anything besides the 12...
 
The 12 does everything better than the 20 for both hunting and clay targets.

But, if you want a small framed shotgun, then the 20 is a good option. You can buy 12's that weigh the same as a 20, but it has a larger frame...if that matters.

Of course, I'd argue the 28 is the way to go with a smaller frame. ;)
 
...

... when i first went hunting in Appalachia...
many choices for guns were there, as everyone
seems to have a collection of wood-tools....

...from all the singles, semi-autos and 870s i held,
the nice fox-savage 16ga doublebarrel did it best for me.

(are there semi-auto 16 ga´s?)
 
Jake, think of it as a group of hunting buddies sitting around a potbellied stove shooting the bull, chewing the rag, etc.

And some of us have our tongues firmly inserted in our respective cheeks.

I'm quite promiscuous, shotgun wise. I've met few indeed I didn't like, regardless of gauge, action type etc.

I might not have taken them all home to meet Mom, but that's the way things go.

A couple things.....

A decade or so past, a friend and I were hunting. He had a 16 gauge Fox, a nice Philly gun and I, if memory serves, was toting Frankenstein. After taking a few quail and ringneck, we decided to swap guns for the remainder of the day.

After swapping the guns and ammo, we hit into a very nice covey. Both of us took a double on the flush and followed up with a single each. 6 shots, 6 birds. Doesn't get any better.

A short barreled 870 and a 26" barreled, finely made SxS handle differently. Since then, I've yearned for a Fox like that, and my friend now has an 870 Special Field in 20 gauge he hunts with sometimes.

The point is, there's more than one way to get there.

The differences in gauge and actions can be fun to argue over as we are doing but most any decent shotgunner can make any decent shotgun work.....
 
Many times I'll post things just to see what happens, like this one. (have to admit, I really didn't expect it to turn into a who needs a 16 thread). My next one will be a PGO thread, but I figure I should wait until Dave is completely rehabbed.:D
 
Jake, think of it as a group of hunting buddies sitting around a potbellied stove shooting the bull, chewing the rag, etc.

As usual, Mr. McCracken is right on target. Taking silly cheap shots just for fun. Dishing it out and taking it. Just a bunch of folks with a common interest, and a million opinions, sitting around B...S...'in. :)

I went cheap and got the H&R single shot.

Well, "Good For You" I'm looking forward to pictures and a range report. After you get the use of your arm back. (LOL)
 
I'm already thinkning of reshaping the stock and buying a limb saver to fit to it.:what:

They sell a 24" rifle sighted slug barrel on the H&R site. I've fired a 2 3/4" slug from my 6.5 lb 12 before, wound up pointing at 6 o'clock after recoil. Damned thing HURT! I found a 1 5/8, I think it was, ounce 3.5" 10 gauge slug load on midwayusa.com. MY GAWD! I might get one of those barrels for it, so cheap, but I ain't real sure I wanna shoot it. LOL! Depending on accuracy, though, I could shoot through three hogs at once with that thing. I ain't sure I wanna sight it in from the bench, though. I can't afford the medical bills.
 
I just thought I would weigh in.

I use a 12g BPS for Turkey, Goose, and duck, and a 28g Double, handed down to me by my grandfather for everything else.

Until my grandfather gave me his 28, I used the Browning 12g for everything across the board since i was 12 yrs old.
 
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