Sniper, rifle, what do I need...

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I would suggest the Remington SPS Tactical, chambered in .308 Win, with a 20" barrel. At $450.00, it's a steal! Be sure to use a steel picatinny rail base so you can interchange scopes with ease between DPMS (and others). Also, my Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .223 Rem is extraordinarily accurate with factory ammo. It cost $515ish. It groups 0.182" at 100 yards. So, we could call it a varmint rifle, or a sniper rifle, or we could call it a precision rifle. Doesn't much matter what title, when a target crosses the bullets' flight-path, it gets impacted. :)

Doc2005
 
Suppose I practise for weeks on end, sight accurately, and then 'assassinate' a target with extreme precision, am I not a 'sniper' then

Well, no. Semantically speaking, If you aren't in the military, and if you aren't law enforcement, really all you would be is a murderer, or more likely "the shooter". Much like going to a CPR class doesn't make you an EMT, driving a sweet 1991 IROC doesn't make you a NASCAR driver and pwning MS Flight Simulator doesn't make you a pilot, simply shooting a tactical rifle well doesn't make you a sniper.

Semantically speaking, of course.
 
I ordered a FAR 50, but it hasn't come in yet. Does this suffice? Or should I buy another 'tack' driver to qualify as my 'sniper' rifle?

The FAR-50 has a hand-lapped target barrel, and with optional match chamber, has in fact the same quality barrel as on an $8000 EDM Arms 50BMG. The question of whether or not it is a tack driver in the right hands is certain; it is very much so.

However, this will likely not be a rifle you will be able to shoot well, unless you are an experienced shooter. I have talked to a few individuals with 30" barrel models, and the recoil is similar to a 12GA slug gun, or a 375H&H magnum. You will find that at these recoil levels, it will be quite a task for you to shoot it well at all, and you probably won't be fond of it for a precision rifle.

To get the most performance from this gun, you MUST handload the ammunition with high-BC bullets. Those are about $1.75 and up, just for each projectile. These bullets are going to show off their abilities at over 1000 yards, a distance most people do not have access to. At 600 yards or less, it doesn't make much sense to use.

So while there is nothing wrong with getting a 50BMG before it's too late, I just want you to know beforehand, it may not be your cup of tea once it arrives.

I would say that instead, learn how to reload, and buy a Savage F-Class rifle in 6.5-284 Norma. A bolt-action is going to be your ticket to precision, along with lots of shooting practice.
 
Cancel the purchase of the .50 BMG rifle. The ammo is horrendously expensive(about $6US a shot for low end ammo from Midway) and the felt recoil isn't light either. Plus most ranges won't let to you shoot it.
Scoping a rifle doesn't make it a sniper's rifle either. Nor does having one make any shooter a sniper.
"...am I not a 'sniper' then..." Not even close. Snipers are very highly trained in much more than just shooting.
Forget the SHTF BS and look into NRA high power, CMP service rifle or Palma shooting. Separates the men from the boys. There's a learning curve. Go with your Da and your brother.
 
Well, no. Semantically speaking, If you aren't in the military, and if you aren't law enforcement, really all you would be is a murderer, or more likely "the shooter". Much like going to a CPR class doesn't make you an EMT, driving a sweet 1991 IROC doesn't make you a NASCAR driver and pwning MS Flight Simulator doesn't make you a pilot, simply shooting a tactical rifle well doesn't make you a sniper.

Semantically speaking, of course.

He didn't say he wanted to be a sniper, he said he wanted a sniper rifle, which is nothing more than a very accurate rifle capable of precise shots. Why all the BS in this thread over him using the term "sniper rifle"? :banghead:
 
This is a somewhat different way of answering the question:

Three components that will get you where you want to go are
- match-grade .308 ammo with ballistics chart
- mil-dot reticle with Mil-Dot Master sliderule
- 20MOA-sloped scope mount.
Assembled with obvious supporting equipment*, you'll be able to hit man-sized targets at unknown distances to 1000m with moderate practice (less than 500 rounds). Focus on those three things, and you'll end up with the "sniper rifle" you're looking for**.

* - you will quickly settle on a quality bolt-action, 10x high-grade scope, easily-adjustable elevation/windage turrets, bipod, and some other stuff that people usually get wrapped up with to the obfuscation of those few key components listed.

** - people will bicker over all kinds of other stuff (.50BMG, hunting rifles, "anything", etc.), but we know what the intent of the question is.
 
Get your self a Tikka T3 Super Varmint in .260 Remington.
You will have a very accurate rifle with better ballistics than the .308 and lower recoil to boot.
 
Cold barrelled shots are nearly always 10x hits, but during the fury of a firefight, a barrel gets HOT. Often I cannot wait till my barrel cools for the next flight of fury. Should I stand under a waterfall for my next shot?

It really depends on what kind of "precision" we're talking about. Do you need your first round and every round thereafter to simply be a hit in the torso? If that's the case, then cold bore shots don't matter much. Do you need your first shot to take out the medulla of a human sized target? Then you better know where you're hitting on that cold bore first shot. Do you often get in fire fights? ;)

On a deer sized target, the inch or so (depending on distance) you may be off with your cold bore shot ain't gonna matter much. If you're trying to hit a prairie dog with your first shot, no biggie if you miss. If it's a hostage situation and you're trying to save a life, BIG difference.

The biggest reason I don't and won't call myself a "sniper" is because being a sniper entails a lot more than just being a precision marksman. You can't be a sniper without being a precision marksman, but you can certainly be a precision marksman without being a sniper. Call it picky, but precision of thought and terminology are important.

As far as the question about trigger groups:

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/?cat=1505

You won't be able to use the Jard trigger, but you've got a couple good choices on that page.
 
"sniper rifle, what do I need" Well, a lot of skill to use it.

but serious. Could buy a sniper rifle, old mosin. Still under $500.

For accuracy I am building an AR, for a reasonable price, you could build a new upper for that .308. Or you could build a new .223. because as accuracy goes .223 is a great round.
 
there are a lot of different avenues to building a "sniper" rifle, I prefer to call them "precision" rifles...

DSC00117.jpg
 
Didn't know I had a sniper rifle, but it shoots like one. Bought a Savage 12 early this year with the hvy 26" brl. in .223. Had it bedded and recrowned by Chase mountain Custom. Bought a lam. stock from Northland for about $180, and a Weaver 36x with Burris rings. This gun can shoot. Kim at Chase Mtn. test fired it and got a 3 shot group of .123 with Ultramax 68gr. I shot a 5 shot group of .146 with sierra 69gr. Wish I could do it all the time. Don't know what it can do at the longer ranges of sany 400. Our range only goes out to 100. But, I'm guessing it would shoot inside 1/2" at 200.
Bob
 
Just wanted to point out that your DPMS LR-308 is a sub-MOA rifle sans the Wolf Ammo. Mileage, of course, may vary based upon configuration.

Get a heavy barrel, free floated, 18-24 inch barrel, slap quality optics on it, and I think you will find that it will outshoot you.

I have one that I chose as a platform for my percision rifle. I have the 24" heavy fluted barrel, floated forearm, and a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40 illuminated TMR on it. After a few changes to the rifle based largely on personal taste, I'll be done.

-- John
 
The rifle I spoke about earlier:

DSC_4431.gif

This thread and your replies have convinced me that I can be happy with using this as a base. I've got most of the features you spoke about JWarren. Floated guard, heavy 18" barrel. And even though I like it alot, I doubt you were talking about my Nikon scope when you said quality optic.

You may note the Simms vibration laboratory pad. I absolutely love that. It makes shooting the rifle an absolute pleasure, whereas without any damping, the recoil was to harsh to enjoy shooting for very long. I have a similar setup for my FAR50.

Thanks
 
gcrookston- Nice! I would love to have a go with that rifle second from the end hidden by the rest. Was that an M model or where my mark one-oh-ones deceiving me again.
 
Oh for gods sake give the guy a rest...

Everytime someone even dances around the phrase "assault rifle" or "sniper rifle" you guys go off like fireworks on the fourth of July. Its not like he is some anti gun owner coming here to spread some message of hate and what have you and from what I can tell you guys all know what he is talking about so what is the big deal?
 
so what is the big deal?

It's an exercise in neurolinguistic programming, semantics and who gets to define the terms of the argument. Tell me which of the following terms is more correct:

high-powered sniper rifle

precision hunting rifle

It's all about taking back the terms of the argument from the antis. When we use loaded terms and talk about the use for a particular tool as part of its very definition, we tacitly admit that's what it's used for. Speaking for myself, I don't intend to demean anyone else's knowledge, I just want folks to get used to using terminology that doesn't give the anti's "ammunition". ;)
 
ok if you put it that way i see the difference.just remember murder is murder whether it be for illegal means or to take out a pre ordered target.just something to think about before jumping all over someone who just wants a sniper quality rifle to shoot paper with on wk ends.
 
The guy is obviously looking for a rifle which is basically what a modern sniper would use. This is, despite arguments over semantics, NOT a "hunting rifle" - there may be great similarities, and a sniper certainly could use one well for his job, and the gun-grabbing crowd would have great trouble legislating a difference, but there are a few subtle differences as I noted in my prior post. Likewise a "precision rifle" lacks characteristics which a professional sniper would prefer.

One of the next rifles I'll get will indeed be a "sniper rifle", and there really is no other way to describe it to defuse what the "anti's" think about it.

Stop running scared of the political opposition. If terms fit, use them.
 
Personally I wouldn't go with a new upper. The first thing I would do is go with a better scope. Spend 70% of the budget on top end glass. Spend 10% on the trigger. Spend the other 20% on a few different match ammos and then test loads around the specs of the one that shot the best. If you don't have reloading equipment then cut a bigger chunk out for ammo/reloading than for the glass. If you have a 1 MOA shooter using junk ammo you probably can find a combo out there that will give you consistent 1/2 MOA groups. While you may not get the experience of cycling the bolt your equipment now is already high end and capable. Good glass makes shooting small groups worlds easier and makes shooting more fun. A good trigger will make small groups easier and shooting more fun. Good ammo will make small groups easier and shooting more fun. A new rifle is going to require good glass, a good trigger, and good ammo to shoot to its potential as well. You might as well cut the cost of the rifle out and spend more on the other three since you can.
 
The guy is obviously looking for a rifle which is basically what a modern sniper would use.

That's not clear at all from his original post:

I realized, that none of us have a bonafide 'sniper' rifle. I ordered a FAR 50, but it hasn't come in yet. Does this suffice? Or should I buy another 'tack' driver to qualify as my 'sniper' rifle?

But, he does mention the Super Sniper scope. I have one, and it's a good scope for the money with lots of features desired by real snipers:

All that stuff will cost more than I was expecting to spend on a bolt action savage with a nice super sniper scope, but I think that will make me happy.

He goes on to say:

Get off your high horse. I'm looking for what is commonly known as a 'sniper' rifle. There is no 'establishment' that owns the title or word 'sniper'.

This leads me to believe that he doesn't have a good conception of the difference between a "sniper" rifle and a "precision" rifle, as you so rightly point out.

One of the next rifles I'll get will indeed be a "sniper rifle", and there really is no other way to describe it to defuse what the "anti's" think about it.

Now we're getting somewhere! We can start building a list of real requirements that make a "sniper" rifle different from a "precision" rifle. What are the real differences?

First ya gotta define what you mean by "precision". I would say that the ability to consistently put 5 rounds in 1 MOA at any distance up to 1,000 meters would be a realistic requirement (regardless of the shooter's ability). What other requirements would a sniper rifle (and more importantly, the scope) be able to fulfill? Reliable range estimation would be one. The classic standard for this is the 10X fixed with mil dot reticle. Now, in the days of good, reliable variable power scopes, I'm inclined to go more with a 9x16 or some other flavor, still with a mil dot reticle. I'd add a laser range finder. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'. ;)

What other characteristics make a sniper rifle different from a precision rifle? I distinguish "precision" from "benchrest", just so the terms are clearer. I think a precision rifle should still be usable in the field. How much weight you're willing to put up with will determine the build up.

What other things can you think of that I'm missing, besides picking the caliber?
 
Good glass makes shooting small groups worlds easier and makes shooting more fun. A good trigger will make small groups easier and shooting more fun. Good ammo will make small groups easier and shooting more fun. A new rifle is going to require good glass, a good trigger, and good ammo to shoot to its potential as well. You might as well cut the cost of the rifle out and spend more on the other three since you can.

I hate to say +1, but you've made the most sense so far of any of us on this whole topic.
 
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