So you think the majority of LEO's are anti-gun?

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What about "citizen safety" as a reason to hold on to your gun. I'd love to see stats on how many CCWs have been involved in violent crimes versus how many LEOs. I searched and couldn't find any stats but my bet is that the LEO rate of crime is higher than the CCW.
Man, would that not be a :what: statistic? I think you may be right but I have no idea where to find such stats. "Officer, I want you to slowly unbuckle your gunbelt and hand it over SLOWLY. Dalepres found some stats that show I am at far greater risk of serious injury by you rather than vice versa so I'm just gonna hold onto this puppy during our encounter to ensure citizen safety is maintained. I trust you don't have a problem with that, right? I can almost assure you with 98.667% certainty that if you are unarmed during the 15 minutes of this traffic stop; you will not be robbed, carjacked, raped, accosted, or otherwise offended by persons who may pass your way... so, maybe you will not have the need of said firearm until you are on your merry way. Do you have any other weapons that I need to be aware of? You're not transporting any bazookas, nukes or rocket launchers are you? Ha, ha, I didn't think so, so you don't mind if I have a quick look in the patrol car. Do you? "
 
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After reading so many of Deanimator's posts I'm scared to death of LEO's. He's not making this stuff up either. I never know if it's a good cop or a bad one approaching me so I disarm all of them until the stop is concluded. It's all about citizen safety.

"Officer, I want you to slowly unbuckle your gunbelt and hand it over SLOWLY. Dalepres found some stats that show I am at far greater risk of serious injury by you rather than vice versa so I'm just gonna hold onto this puppy during our encounter to ensure citizen safety is maintained. I trust you don't have a problem with that, right?

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/05/cop_arrested_in_theft_battery.html

EDIT: I forgot to include a quote from the article:

Cop arrested in theft, battery previously suspended for abandoning post
by Brendan McCarthy, The Times-Picayune
Friday May 16, 2008, 8:28 PM

A New Orleans police officer charged this week with theft and aggravated battery previously served a lengthy suspension for abandoning his post in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.


Officer Rydell Diggs, 31, left his position as a 3rd District officer without authorization days after the 2005 hurricane and did not return to the job until 12 days later, according to civil service records. He was suspended 85 workdays for neglect of duty, and later reinstated to the force.

Diggs is at the center of controversy this week after his arrest Thursday morning on charges of aggravated battery, theft and malfeasance in office.

He allegedly beat a motorist with a baton and stole more than $300 from the man's wallet, according to police. Diggs also is charged with aggravated battery, accused of using pepper spray on a woman, court records show. The incident took place after a traffic stop on Aug. 7, 2007, at Monroe and Hickory streets in the West Carrollton area, police said. Diggs was a patrolman assigned to the 2nd District, which covers a wide swath of Uptown.
 
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After reading so many of Deanimator's posts I'm scared to death of LEO's. He's not making this stuff up either.
SOME of this stuff, CLIVE BARKER couldn't make up! :D

Watch, some day I'll post a link to a story in the Tribune about a 7' Chicago cop with nails sticking out of his head getting a thirty day suspension for skinning somebody alive!:evil:

12026Pinhead.jpg
 
Man, would that not be a statistic? I think you may be right but I have no idea where to find such stats. "Officer, I want you to slowly unbuckle your gunbelt and hand it over SLOWLY. Dalepres found some stats that show I am at far greater risk of serious injury by you rather than vice versa so I'm just gonna hold onto this puppy during our encounter to ensure citizen safety is maintained. I trust you don't have a problem with that, right? I can almost assure you with 98.667% certainty that if you are unarmed during the 15 minutes of this traffic stop; you will not be robbed, carjacked, raped, accosted, or otherwise offended by persons who may pass your way... so, maybe you will not have the need of said firearm until you are on your merry way. Do you have any other weapons that I need to be aware of? You're not transporting any bazookas, nukes or rocket launchers are you? Ha, ha, I didn't think so, so you don't mind if I have a quick look in the patrol car. Do you? "
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Cute. While you're at it, go ahead a skip calling 911 if your house or car ever gets broken into. And if you come home from work, and your front door is bashed open, just go clear the house yourself. You've got statistically better accuracy and training anyways.
 
Cute. While you're at it, go ahead a skip calling 911 if your house or car ever gets broken into. And if you come home from work, and your front door is bashed open, just go clear the house yourself. You've got statistically better accuracy and training anyways.
If I lived in Chicago, that's EXACTLY what I'd do. Who knows, before last year, maybe it was Jerry Finnegan and SOS who broke in in the first place. Why call them BACK to the scene?

Calling the Chicago PD because you're a victim of crime is like calling Michael Bolton because you're a victim of lame music.
 
Cute. While you're at it, go ahead a skip calling 911 if your house or car ever gets broken into. And if you come home from work, and your front door is bashed open, just go clear the house yourself. You've got statistically better accuracy and training anyways.

Why would you skip calling 911 after the crime? Now we're talking about the police doing what is their job.

Deanimator said:
Calling the Chicago PD because you're a victim of crime is like calling Michael Bolton because you're a victim of lame music.

That analysis only holds true if the Chicago PD had been the perpetrators of the crime... Because Michael Bolton is lame music.
 
Thanks, must be the new haircut. I need to let you know up front that I’ve been happily married for 18+ years.
While you're at it, go ahead a skip calling 911 if your house or car ever gets broken into. And if you come home from work, and your front door is bashed open, just go clear the house yourself. You've got statistically better accuracy and training anyways.
Wow, does seething come to mind? :eek:

See, the whole wry humor and dichotomy aspect gets dashed on the rocks when folks don’t follow the thread from the beginning and retain some of the premise. Please refer to post #10. Here, I'll help you. I don’t want to cause any more undue stress…
Post 10-
Sounds to me that thread is more about whether someone should be disarmed during a traffic stop or not. Not whether or not the officer's are pro-2ndAmendment.

However, I will note that the loudest officer's in that thread were from Detroit and Washington, DC. Two cities who are known to be antigun.

As for being disarmed during a traffic stop. First don't speed, run stop lights, or break sound ordinances and you will not get stopped. Second, if you are stopped... I can almost assume you with 98.667% certainty that if you are unarmed during the 15 minutes of said traffic stop; you will not be robbed, carjacked, raped, acosted, or otherwise offended by persons who may pass your way... so, maybe you will not have the need of said firearm until you are on your merry way.

Now I appear even cuter, eh? I don't know how that whole shoe on the other foot thing sits with ya. Somehow I doubt it. :p:rolleyes:
 
Deanimator,
Watch, some day I'll post a link to a story in the Tribune about a 7' Chicago cop with nails sticking out of his head getting a thirty day suspension for skinning somebody alive!
CHICAGO TRIBUNE

Cook County- 8.30.08
For Immediate Release Contact: Office of News Affairs
CHICAGO – Superintendent of Police, Jody “JP” Weiss announced today that in the interest of public safety the 30 day suspension of officer Ivan Tocuturcockov was reduced to the 5 days served and the massive officer is back patrolling and making our fair city that much safer whilst putting the underworld on notice. Officer Tocuturcockov stated, “I was just flaying around for a bit & then it got serious. I like to get an edge on the competition and cut right to the chase. These nail implants allow me to zero in on the dishonest civilians even before they commit a crime. I did the community a favor.”
 
I have been following the thread from the beginning. Thanks for making assumptions though.


My point stands: Don't like cops and think they are power hungry thugs? Then don't use them. It's the height of hypocrisy to scoff and police doing and wanting things that will make their job safer, while simultaneously demanding that they put themselves in situations you can't or won't do yourself.


Since we're so fond of citing stories around here, anyone want to go search for one where a legal CCW holder held off a corrupt police officer who was trying to kill him ,during a traffic stop with his concealed weapon?
 
My point stands: Don't like cops and think they are power hungry thugs? Then don't use them.
As I said, if I still lived in Chicago, I WOULDN'T. Why bother? They don't care. Everybody KNOWS they don't care. They SAY they don't care.

The last time I recall my family calling the Chicago PD was when I was in highschool and heard glass breaking late one night. My bedroom faced an alley, on the other side of which was the back door of a dry cleaners. I could very clearly see a group of White teenagers who broke one or more windows in the back of the cleaners. They were standing under a light.

I woke my parents who called the Chicago Police Department. When they arrived, we went downstairs in front of our apartment. My father told them what I'd seen. When they learned that the suspects were White, they halted the investigation, got back in their car and immediately left, heading in the OPPOSITE direction from the one which the suspects took. THAT is what the "help" of the Chicago Police Department is worth.

Now tell me again, what purpose calling them served. Tell me what "help" we could have expected had they been breaking down OUR door. And we were lucky. Those Chicago cops didn't actually commit a CRIME, against US, a claim that the victims of the SOS unit's home invasions, robberies and kidnappings can't make.

Expecting the Chicago Police Department to "help" you is like expecting Rosie O'Donnell to "help" you with dieting and structural failure analysis.
 
My point stands: Don't like cops and think they are power hungry thugs? Then don't use them.
Cute. While you're at it, go ahead a skip calling 911 if your house or car ever gets broken into. And if you come home from work, and your front door is bashed open, just go clear the house yourself. You've got statistically better accuracy and training anyways.

Your point stands right up there with the neighborhood kid who, when told he can’t play QB, takes his ball and goes home.

I like cops and don’t think they are power hungry thugs. Can I use them? Please? Please sire. For ye be the fairest of Nottingham, Sheriff de Grey and I but a mere serf from Loxley. I beseech thee to don the mantle of protection and allow us to cower under...


It's the height of hypocrisy to scoff and police doing and wanting things that will make their job safer, while simultaneously demanding that they put themselves in situations you can't or won't do yourself.

Naw, that would be a bit of hypocrisy. The height of hypocrisy would be if I was in a position of power and abused that power against the very persons I was sworn to protect & serve.

It would be hypocritical to scoff at citizens doing and wanting things that will make their lives safer, while simultaneously demanding that they put themselves in situations you can't or won't do yourself… Such as carrying a firearm or being forced to relinquish that firearm even temporarily.

Since we're so fond of citing stories around here, anyone want to go search for one where a legal CCW holder held off a corrupt police officer who was trying to kill him ,during a traffic stop with his concealed weapon?

Post # 64. Or did you mean a news story?

That will probably never happen because a CCW holder would obey the lawful order of the LEO, be disarmed and would then just turn up as a mound in the desert. Is that somehow, a better result?

Taurusowner, what is your position on the 2nd regarding citizens, cars & carry? Do you approve of my shotty in the front seat, my EBR in the trunk and my pistol on the hip? What is your policy for encounters with citizens with CCW’s? Do you disarm them?
 
My point stands: Don't like cops and think they are power hungry thugs? Then don't use them.

This is part of the reason people distrust law enforcement. If we try to limit them, question them, set limits for them, then we get responses like this.

Last time I checked, law enforcement worked for the people, paid by the people. If I pay for a service, either from a private company or from my government, I absolutely will use that service. And if I don't like the service, I will absolutely voice my dissatisfaction. In the case of any government function, I reserve the right to protest my dissatisfaction even more vociferously. Should the laws ever change so that I can truly "not use them" that would be fine but currently, I cannot not pay my taxes; I cannot not "use" them if I am pulled over for a traffic violation. I cannot not "use" them if I am involved in a traffic accident. I cannot not "use" them if they knock on my door to ask to see my Glock .40 for ballistics tests. I cannot not "use" them if they get an address wrong and bust my door in at 3:00 AM when they were really targeting some kid on the next block. So not using the police is not an option.
 
+1 dale.

For some reason I kind of read the last few sentences with a Boomhauer (sp? king of the hill) sort of voice in my head... :) Well said though.
 
I agree Zundfolge. The higher ups seem to be less pro-gun. I don't particularly know why.

The higher in rank you go, the more of a politician you become until you reach the point where one can't be told apart from another.

Chiefs are generally appointed to their positions and in most case have to parrot what their benefactors tell them to.

Sheriffs OTOH, are answerable to the people and tend to reflect the sensibilities of the electorate.
 
Cute. While you're at it, go ahead a skip calling 911 if your house or car ever gets broken into. And if you come home from work, and your front door is bashed open, just go clear the house yourself. You've got statistically better accuracy and training anyways.

What good will they do once your house is burglarized? Give you a paperwork number so you can call insurance? other than that, nothing.

If you're being robbed, you've clearly got more important things to do with your time than calling dial-a-prayer.

Lose the ill-begoten police-are-god complex. They are not there to protect you. Their purpose is revenue collection for local government and maintaining the status quo.

-T
 
They are not there to protect you.
Police have:

1. No duty to protect individuals.
2. No liability if they don't.
3. No ability for the most part.

3 is the rule for even the best department. 911 is a communications system of variable effectiveness, not a matter transporter.

Protect yourself or just don't get protected, PERIOD.
 
They are not there to protect you. Their purpose is revenue collection for local government and maintaining the status quo.

It used to be that LEOs took police reports and investigated crimes. When they didn't have anything else to do, they wrote tickets and collected revenue. Now things have gotten turned aroun and collecting revenue is a primary objective while, in Tulsa Oklahoma, police response to a burglary call can take 4 and a half hours. That's while the city recently announced they are hiring 6 additional traffic officers with an expected increase in revenue of one million dollars as a result. Yes, the officially announced purpose for hiring the officers is not public safety but is revenue.
 
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