"No Guns" in lease. What to do?
- Thread starter fulloflead
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Crazy Fingers
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Sorry, but I believe many you are completely wrong when it comes to the "property owner's rights." The property owner is the owner of the property, when he leases it to someone, he leases the rights to that property. In other words, it is his house, but the tenant's home.
And in his own home, he has rights. You can't put in clauses that take away the tenant's right to privacy, their right to access, their rights to utilization, etc. The gun is NOT a damaging object, and it is the tenant's right to bring inanimate objects into the home as he sees fit.
Telling a tenant that he can't have a gun is like telling him he isn't allowed to bring in wood furniture because you're afraid of termites.
And in his own home, he has rights. You can't put in clauses that take away the tenant's right to privacy, their right to access, their rights to utilization, etc. The gun is NOT a damaging object, and it is the tenant's right to bring inanimate objects into the home as he sees fit.
Telling a tenant that he can't have a gun is like telling him he isn't allowed to bring in wood furniture because you're afraid of termites.
whitebb
Member
+1 Crazyfingers.
I own many rental properties. I own the houses, but the tenant has the property rights of use. On the other hand, I am PRO gun, and have offered to install small gun safes at MY expense, but have had no takers. All my tenants except one I know have guns.
I own many rental properties. I own the houses, but the tenant has the property rights of use. On the other hand, I am PRO gun, and have offered to install small gun safes at MY expense, but have had no takers. All my tenants except one I know have guns.
hjaeger
Member
Hey, once you VA proponents do something about your INSANE traffic regulations and aggressive cops..then, it'll be the solid choice over MD.
I haven't been burnt by VA driving laws, but c'mon...bad drivers, worse roads, and reckless driving tickets for people doing 70 in a 55? VA is nuts, nuts, nuts to deal with if you have to commute. Maybe it is different outside of NoVA.
One nice thing about MD is that we do not have an "assault weapons" ban as does Denver.
OP, feel comfortable revealing your intended location in MD?
I haven't been burnt by VA driving laws, but c'mon...bad drivers, worse roads, and reckless driving tickets for people doing 70 in a 55? VA is nuts, nuts, nuts to deal with if you have to commute. Maybe it is different outside of NoVA.
One nice thing about MD is that we do not have an "assault weapons" ban as does Denver.
OP, feel comfortable revealing your intended location in MD?
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Thernlund
Member
It occures to me that this sort of thing is one of the reasons we are where we are in this country today: Not ignoring stupid things.
-T.
-T.
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fulloflead
Member
I'm going to have them change the lease and if they won't, tell them I can't sign it.
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Has to be more to the story.
You have to be 19 or more over before the officer has the OPTION to charge reckless on speed alone.
15 over is just a speeding ticket unless you did something else.
I hate driving in Maryland.
There portion of the beltway in the western side is a disaster.
Thernlund
Member
Sometimes there is a ceiling to the limit. For example, 85 or more in AZ is way more than just a speeding ticket (felony?), even when the limit is 75.
-T.
-T.
fulloflead
Member
I was hoping for Silver Spring, but I'm checking other areas now like Wheaton and Rockville.
I don't really want to get into, of have to defend, my personal reasons for moving there. But I do appreciate the help.
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I don't really want to get into, of have to defend, my personal reasons for moving there. But I do appreciate the help.
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blackcash88
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Please don't tell me you're surprised by this.
Who the HELL would want a safe from someone (and God knows who else) that probably has a copy of the key or some other "default/backdoor knowledge" of how to get into that safe? I know I sure wouldn't believe someone I didn't know if they said they didn't have a copy. If it's an electronic type safe, no matter what the combination is set to, there's always a mechanical backup, i.e. KEY. Even if it's a mechanical combination only safe, wouldn't you worry about them not giving you the combo when they move? That's why I NEVER use hotel safes...there's always a work around for the "owner". Stupid idea all around. It's bad enough that the landlord even has a key to the house/property and I was never comfortable with that. Some azzhole maintenance man at an apartment we rented a long time ago let our cat out and she was never seen again.
mgregg85
Member
I like the strike through idea. I would do that and possibly have a lawyer friend look it over for you just to be sure. Then make a copy and send it back to them, see if they approve of it.
hankdatank1362
Member
Well, IANAL, and all, but...
The REP (Reasonable Expectiation of Privacy) lies with the tenant. Same reason that the landlord can't grant consent to search the apartment he owns... the tenant has the REP, and anything that results as a search of said premises will undoubtedly be rendered inadmissable.
Following that logic, I believe that all the people championing the "property rights" of the landlord over your civil and constitutional rights are all terribly mistaken.
However, on the other hand, if you do sign a contract, you're screwed. Strikethrough and see what happens.
Keep a gun in there regardless, and be continually on the lookout for a new residence.
The REP (Reasonable Expectiation of Privacy) lies with the tenant. Same reason that the landlord can't grant consent to search the apartment he owns... the tenant has the REP, and anything that results as a search of said premises will undoubtedly be rendered inadmissable.
Following that logic, I believe that all the people championing the "property rights" of the landlord over your civil and constitutional rights are all terribly mistaken.
However, on the other hand, if you do sign a contract, you're screwed. Strikethrough and see what happens.
Keep a gun in there regardless, and be continually on the lookout for a new residence.
Travis Lee
Member
EVEN if the clause is legally unenforcable, EVEN if you strikethrough the clause and they accept it, I would NOT want to put dollar one in the hands of busybodies who think they have a right to get up in my business like that.
Also, the only reason for striking through the clause would mean that sooner, or later, EVERYBODY in the complex will assume you have an armory in your apartment.
Also, the only reason for striking through the clause would mean that sooner, or later, EVERYBODY in the complex will assume you have an armory in your apartment.
Treo
member
I'm definetely not a lawyer but,
The landlord has made the conditions under which he'll rent to you clear. Nobody in this thread has posted any type of cite of any statute or legal precedent saying the Landlord can't put that type of condition on the lease. Nobody is forcing you to move in I would recomend you consult a MD lawyer and see what he says about the contract.
The landlord has made the conditions under which he'll rent to you clear. Nobody in this thread has posted any type of cite of any statute or legal precedent saying the Landlord can't put that type of condition on the lease. Nobody is forcing you to move in I would recomend you consult a MD lawyer and see what he says about the contract.
Technically in MD your gun must be cased in the trunk with all magazines unloaded AND you technically cannot stop anywhere while the guns are in there (ie. no stopping for gas on the way to the range).
The CCW is virtually impossible to get unless you own a small business and frequently handle cash. Apparently MD puts the value of money over the value of a persons right to self protection. The other way to get a MD CCW is to have documented threats against your life that would justify to the State Police (the issuing agency) your NEED to carry a gun for protection.
If you plan on purchasing a pistol in MD you also must take a Handgun Safety Course to be an eligible buyer. And theres a 7 business day waiting period between payment and receiving the gun.
jaholder1971
Member
I'm going to torque a few, but it's the truth:
The basic human right to self defense (and the tools to do so) trumps anyone's right to property.
That's why you can't kill, rape, rob or basically have your way with anyone that uses your property.
Either you're a good tenant or not, the inanimate objects are immaterial.
The basic human right to self defense (and the tools to do so) trumps anyone's right to property.
That's why you can't kill, rape, rob or basically have your way with anyone that uses your property.
Either you're a good tenant or not, the inanimate objects are immaterial.
CAPTAIN MIKE
Member
Make a Counter-Offer
A contract is not a contract until both parties agree. Make a counter-offer by scratching out the no-guns policy and inserting the words "Lessor agrees to provide Lessee with round-the-clock Security Officer."
A contract is not a contract until both parties agree. Make a counter-offer by scratching out the no-guns policy and inserting the words "Lessor agrees to provide Lessee with round-the-clock Security Officer."
Old School
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This is a no brainer to me. The clause you state has a specific resolution for the infraction. It says you are evicted immediately. Hey no problem. To me, that is just an instant way to get our of your contract anytime you want. You don't have to wait for your lease period to expire. As soon as you decide to move, just announce that you will be keeping a gun and you are out of your lease.
[1] The Constitution does not regulate the conduct of private parties. It only regulates the conduct of government.
[2] Unless there's a statute or case law in the jurisdiction that would invalidate a "no guns" clause in a lease, the clause is valid. If you sign the lease with that clause in it, keep a gun on the premises and the landlord finds out, you will no doubt be evicted. A court would almost certainly uphold an eviction. It's certainly virtually inconceivable that a Maryland court would block the eviction on some sort of 2nd Amendment grounds, and it would cost you a whole lot of money to try to get them to.
[3] You can always try to negotiate the terms of the lease. It often doesn't work with residential leases, but a lot depends on such things as how strongly the landlord is anti-gun, how good a tenant the landlord otherwise perceives you'd be, how anxious the landlord is to rent, how soft (or hard) the market is, etc.
[2] Unless there's a statute or case law in the jurisdiction that would invalidate a "no guns" clause in a lease, the clause is valid. If you sign the lease with that clause in it, keep a gun on the premises and the landlord finds out, you will no doubt be evicted. A court would almost certainly uphold an eviction. It's certainly virtually inconceivable that a Maryland court would block the eviction on some sort of 2nd Amendment grounds, and it would cost you a whole lot of money to try to get them to.
[3] You can always try to negotiate the terms of the lease. It often doesn't work with residential leases, but a lot depends on such things as how strongly the landlord is anti-gun, how good a tenant the landlord otherwise perceives you'd be, how anxious the landlord is to rent, how soft (or hard) the market is, etc.
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