Update On New Orleans Cops Gun Confiscations

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Great info.

I would suggest, in all seriousness, that BATFE should get involved in this. It sounds like a fairly accepted practice of firearms theft, and I'm sure some kind of link to interstate commerce can be made. I think a federal agency is more likely to actually do something than a state agency.
 
yet another testimony to the "statism" trend in the USA.

Statism is where the state is elevated to an all powerfull godlike position and is best exemplified by Emperor Caesor Augustus (whose very choice of name, broke the pattern of his predicessors and elevated himself to godlike stature). Later examples include Italy and Germany in the .30s and 40's.

We're not becoming a police state, we are one.
 
From the FBI's page on color of law abuses...

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

It’s a federal crime for anyone acting under “color of law” willfully to deprive or conspire to deprive a person of a right protected by the Constitution or U.S. law. “Color of law” simply means that the person is using authority given to him or her by a local, state, or federal government agency.

The FBI is the lead federal agency for investigating color of law abuses, which include acts carried out by government officials operating both within and beyond the limits of their lawful authority. Off-duty conduct may be covered if the perpetrator asserted his or her official status in some way.

During Fiscal Year 2005, the FBI investigated more than 1,100 color of law cases. Most of these crimes fall into five broad areas:

• excessive force;
• sexual assaults;
• false arrest and fabrication of evidence;
• deprivation of property; and
• failure to keep from harm.

False arrest and fabrication of evidence: The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right against unreasonable searches or seizures. A law enforcement official using authority provided under the color of law is allowed to stop individuals and, under certain circumstances, to search them and retain their property. It is in the abuse of that discretionary power—such as an unlawful detention or illegal confiscation of property—that a violation of a person's civil rights may occur.

Fabricating evidence against or falsely arresting an individual also violates the color of law statute, taking away the person’s rights of due process and unreasonable seizure. In the case of deprivation of property, the color of law statute would be violated by unlawfully obtaining or maintaining a person’s property, which oversteps or misapplies the official’s authority.
 
Law suits, law suits, law suits, law suits, and more law suits. Leftist extremists have no respect for law; hitting them in the wallets, however, tends to get their attention eventually.
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And whenever possible, sue the officer as an individual. A bad cop won't care if the public pays for his crimes. He'll care a LOT when he has to explain to his kids why they're having ramen for Christmas dinner and there aren't any presents. It's likely that other officers will notice and draw the appropriate conclusions about how THEY should conduct themselves.
 
In most cases individual LEOs are protected by 'qualified immunity' like a lawyer is


And today we have a Louisiana Parish (county) banning the sale of guns and ammunition during the hurricane period.

Thread here.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.ph...14#post4907614
__________________
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In most states when a 'state of emergency' is declared theres no sales allowed on firearms or ammo. its the same in Florida
 
They have immunity from prosecution for LEGAL acts while conducting professional business.

Ask to see the relevant statute that authorizes them to seize private property without warrant.

Oh, you don't have such a law?

Isn't a LEO supposed to have been TRAINED in such things? Is the Department supporting this officer in his ILLEGAL acts?

They're not? So IOW, he WAS NOT acting in official capacity?

I see. So I should pursue the INDIVIDUAL and not your department then, Chief? Thank you.

~~~

In all seriousness....I wonder how many officers in jurisdictions like that could pass the physical, legal and intelligence standards required for enlistment in the military?
 
Ask to see the relevant statute that authorizes them to seize private property without warrant.
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And furthermore without any direct instruction, departmental policy or legal opinion in support.

Of course the department and city/county are still on the hook for failure to supervise.
 
If a cop wants to know the status of a gun, he has the right to run its serial number and description on the National Crime Information Computer--the FBI database into which all law enforcement agencies enter stolen property, wants, warrants on individuals, etc. If a gun does not come back stolen on NCIC, and the person is being investigated only for traffic violations, the cop should give the gun back. He has no legal right to keep it.
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No. Absent some other mitigating factor, there is no probable cause or any articulable suspiscion. Even if there was, they wouldn't have a right to run any serial number. They may have some granted authority, but no right.

The custody & arrest laws vary somewhat state to state and YMMV but if this is actually prevalent locals need to start trapping these thugs on video tape.
 
AHHH I think I have a germ of an idea...

somewhere on this board from time to time I have seen people want to get rid of or dispose of guns for whatever reason. Just saw a post the other day. Sounds like a good use for these old deactivated or inert firearms. I would love these to the cause of busting these crooks.
 
Well, the best solution is obviously to just keep a receipt with the gun, and avoid confrontation altogether. In IL, it is required to keep a receipt for a gun purchase or transfer for 10 years. I don't know what the law is in LA. If it is something similar, you could always say, "I don't need the receipt, as I bought it over 10 years ago."

Another option is to keep a piece of crap Jennings or other Saturday Night Special in the car as a decoy, just in case they ask or search. Say no first, then if they search, make sure the Jennings is the one they find. ;) Of course searching without a warrant or good suspicion is illegal too, but apparently that doesn't matter.

One other thing that may be happening here is that the officers have undocumented orders to do this from their chief to try and make sure any looting done is without guns. If the whole department is acting on orders like this, they will of course not help you at all. Kind of like a back room deal.
 
And today we have a Louisiana Parish (county) banning the sale of guns and ammunition during the hurricane period.

Thread here.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.ph...14#post4907614
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That is specifically allowed by Louisiana law. I posted the statute in that thread. Let's try to only get worked up about things that are illegal for now.

Cops stealing guns at gunpoint is enough to worry about.
 
Another option is to keep a piece of crap Jennings or other Saturday Night Special in the car as a decoy, just in case they ask or search. Say no first, then if they search, make sure the Jennings is the one they find. Of course searching without a warrant or good suspicion is illegal too, but apparently that doesn't matter.
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Right, so it wouldn't do to add obstruction to your rap sheet.
 
What happens to all these guns?

I have a question for the author. In all of the research that you have done for your book, (Which from the sound of the discussion I will have to pick up soon) what do the police officers do with these firearms after they illegally confiscate them from civilians? I mean are they just lost in the shuffle of an unorganized police department or are they sold on the black market?
 
They have to be very careful...there are many of us out there that would answere the question either : "Yes officer,I have a weapon SOMEWHERE;and NO-you cannot see it,or "You stopped me for what? and you want to know what???
 
What Happens to the Guns?

To Really Lucky...

In answer to your question, the NRA and SAF dispatched investigators to New Orleans and surrounding areas very shortly after reports started pouring in of law enforcement personnel seizing weapons from people who had not evacuated.

Once these investigators gathered enough evidence that such was occurring, they were able to go to Federal Judge Jay Zainey of the Eastern District Court of Louisiana (I hope I have all that title correct) who issued a cease and desist order to New Orleans and St. Tammany parishes--telling them to quit seizing guns, and to start giving the guns back they had confiscated.

Without getting too deeply into it (it's all in the book) St. Tammany's Sheriff Jack Strain issued an immediate apology, and gave back all the guns they had seized in the two weeks after the hurricane. New Orleans denied taking any guns, denied having any guns, and continued taking guns from citizens up until February of 2006--when the attorneys for the NRA and SAF filed a contempt of court charge against Mayor Ray Nagin, and Police Superintendent Warren Riley. At that point, the city stopped the practice, and admitted to holding about a thousand guns.

Depositions taken from individual officers who were offended by the practice (yes, there were some) stated their fellow officers took guns, and depending on the quality, either threw them in the lakes and canals, or kept them.

Gordon Hutchinson
 
Following Katrina I spent 2 weeks doing Disaster Relief work in Slidell, LA....The reason why I share this is due to the fact that my CCW was in my pocket (reciprocity with both NM and FL), and an M1 carbine was sitting between the front seats in the van.
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Sistema 1927,

Do you work for a particular agency? The reason I ask is that I am on a Federal disaster team, which also helped in Katrina, and may get sent to Texas depending on Iks' damage. During Katrina, we often had armed escorts, but were told then, and have been reminded in preparation for this possible deployment, that guns are a "no-no" according to the Feds. It doesn't matter if you have a CCW or not, no weapons allowed during these deployments.

Thanks,
 
"If a cop wants to know the status of a gun, he has the right to run its serial number and description on the National Crime Information Computer"

He only has that "right" if he has some reasonable suspicion that it is stolen or that it has been used in a crime.




"I wish the NRA would stop supporting police. The police don't support citizens as much as they used too."

This one does!
 
c1ogden i believe you keep on quoting people but its hard to tell i will pm you on quoating
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Back to the topic. from what was written on post 31. I almost think if you copied that and put down under neath it for officers to check the ncic then people should be able to give them that paper. Then say no to giving them your guns.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

It’s a federal crime for anyone acting under “color of law” willfully to deprive or conspire to deprive a person of a right protected by the Constitution or U.S. law. “Color of law” simply means that the person is using authority given to him or her by a local, state, or federal government agency.

The FBI is the lead federal agency for investigating color of law abuses, which include acts carried out by government officials operating both within and beyond the limits of their lawful authority. Off-duty conduct may be covered if the perpetrator asserted his or her official status in some way.

During Fiscal Year 2005, the FBI investigated more than 1,100 color of law cases. Most of these crimes fall into five broad areas:

• excessive force;
• sexual assaults;
• false arrest and fabrication of evidence;
• deprivation of property; and
• failure to keep from harm.

False arrest and fabrication of evidence: The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right against unreasonable searches or seizures. A law enforcement official using authority provided under the color of law is allowed to stop individuals and, under certain circumstances, to search them and retain their property. It is in the abuse of that discretionary power—such as an unlawful detention or illegal confiscation of property—that a violation of a person's civil rights may occur.

Fabricating evidence against or falsely arresting an individual also violates the color of law statute, taking away the person’s rights of due process and unreasonable seizure. In the case of deprivation of property, the color of law statute would be violated by unlawfully obtaining or maintaining a person’s property, which oversteps or misapplies the official’s authority.
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Nagin and the police chief of NOLA should serve time in jail on the contempt charge IMHO. As well as their comrade Fanty in DC. :cuss:
 
What if you just refuse to answer the question about whether or not you have a gun in your car? What is the justification for the cop to ask in the first place? Do you have a legal responsibility to answer such a question in the first place? What happens if you just refuse to answer?
 
It doesn't matter, they take your gun, your sol, have to get a lawyer, gun is gone, never to be seen again. If you try to stop them from this unlawful act (crime) they make up some BS story after they arrest you for commiting no crime, They commit a crime in broad day light, if they were not wearing a uniform and tried this, they know they would be promptly shot. Since they wear a uniform, you complain, you are told to get a lawyer. To late crime is done
 
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