Caught in a Foreign Country and May Be In Trouble

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HI People, I am a newbie poster, so let me introduce myself. I am a Canadian guy from Alberta whose family has had a long relationship with the responsible gun culture, back home in Canada I inherited my fathers 30.06, his two shotguns, and an German 22 that collectors have been coveting for years. On my mother's side, my uncle was a gun smith, who introduced me to skeet shooting, target practice and gun responsibility.

In a strange turn of events, I find myself living in a foreign country in the Med., with a wife that has strong local roots and doesn't want to leave.

Yesterday, I had an altercation with a local bully, who last summer helped initiate a gang of his friends to 'beat up' my wife and I at our summer cottage, living as we are in a community of rough families from a local town. I did not pick this community and would love just to leave, but the situation is that this group of older men with families, are used to having their own way, and will arbitrarily decide to intimidate and threaten to establish their dominance. My wife and I were not around when they arrived, but my sister in-law took the full force of their intimidation, a tiny 28 year old woman. They were going to beat up her, but restrained themselves and went on to another couple, whom they promptly put in the hospital. The woman was put in the hospital for having the temerity to stand up to them - a gang of 9 men!

The altercation that got them upset, that stimulated them to action against us, was the putting up of a security fence 2 meters high, right on our property line! They would not counsel any dispute or input into the Manager's decision to put up the fence, we were not consulted, and they tried to punish us for trying to negotiate a small fence in front of our property.

Now you may think I am full of BS with this story, but I assure you, it is true and real.

I have called my sister and have arranged to have my street wise nephew and his friends over to this country to ....er, show some Canadian steel. I am not looking for a fight, but I do not want to live in fear the rest of the time I am in this country! The police and courts are useless here, if you know something about Med. culture. These men are not part of any national crime community that I know about, but I have hired an investigator to get some er, intelligence.

Now, I am afraid I have no alternative but to show some Winston Churchill style balls in the face of this obvious crap. I don't want a fight, but the fight is coming to me, and I will act, I am not interested in fighting, but a man has to be stand up and be counted for what he believes I believe. I am not interested in any heroics and I AM mature. Winston was an adult after all! He was not a child, like the group I am now facing (let's just say they backed hitler during the war, and he still admired here).

What gun would be best for intimidation purposes and to fire a shot that would not hurt anyone? I do not want to spend time in jail, not in this country, defending values they don't understand! The courts would obviously go against me if I seriously hurt someone. What do you people suggest?

Thanks for following me this far.
 
Chances are that as a foreigner in a foreign land you will lose in the courts if you get in a physical altercation with a local. That probably doubles with a weapon involved. I'd move back to Alberta or Florida.
 
Shooting anything from a firearm at someone and not expecting to hurt them is a bad idea in general.

I would move if possible. If not possible then start making friends and watch out for each other.
 
"What do you people suggest?"

not !!!EVER EVER EVER!!! pulling a weapon your not willing to use.

Saw a young man kicked half to death for flashing a pistol and trying to back some people down. He was knocked down and had a boot party in his honor and someone got a free gun out of it.

I dont care if its just putting up your hands to fight, you better be ready to throw if you do.

my suggestion is peace the situation out, if you cant to that, move, if thats not an option......well....... be first fastest and dont stop untill its done. Be that salting the earth or simply giving a good beating to one of the ringleaders.

"bracing" one of them is an option.

but are you a man of those means?? are you willing to follow up what you say with action?? You the type to dig a grave and then take some people for a little drive in the trunk of a car or two??

"look, do you want to wonder for the rest of your life if you forgot to lock the door or that me and mine paid you a visit and left a little something??"

"do you want to have to worry about someone posted on a roof with a rifle??, that every car that pulls up might be full of shooters and looters??"

are you willing to kill and if need be die over all this??

if not remove yourself from the situation or make it better.

I once something along the lines of "and so what, then either some of my people will get at you or they wont, no diffrence to me as ill be dead, but it wont just be you, it will be every one and every thing you care about, nothing but ashed and dust and dried blood, thats the name of the game, are you willing to play it??

do what you have to to survive, not what you think you need to to be a man. the object is the saftey of you and yours, not a pissing contest
 
What gun would be best for intimidation purposes and to fire a shot that would not hurt anyone?

Well - I don't think it is a gun you need here. Not knowing the laws of the country you are in , it is pretty much impossible to know what is best. However, no matter where you are, using a firearm as a tool to intimidate will likely get you put in jail. Bean bags, and rubber bullets are about the only projectiles that are considered non-lethal by most standards, but again, just the use of any firearm in the manner you are suggesting will likely be a problem.
 
Foreign country.

You didn't say what country you are in so it is difficult here for anyone to give you advice on what to do in your situation.

If you are there to stay, you need to find out what the laws are and how the legal and police system really operate for where you are at.

You could have the best laws on paper, but if these guys have the police and judges paid off, you are screwed.

9 guys in a gang could mean you are dealing with 9 families if you stand up for yourself. Are you willing to deal with a small army?

Many people in the US live in areas that are gang infested and this is a big problem.

If you are in a country where self defense is effectively illegal, you need to leave if at all possible.

Weapons laws vary widely from country to country as well as what is lawful self defense. From what I understand of Canadian gun laws, it is illegal to use a firearm for self protection. Screwed up law, what can I say.

When you are in school and you stand up to the bully, you risk a bloody nose, when you stand up to someone in a street gang, you risk your life.

Make sure you weigh all your options and know everything before you take any action. You won't get a second chance.

Nicki
 
Good Lord, don't shoot at anybody while in another country unless it's either that or be killed (or grievously injured). Don't import muscle, either; the locals will still be around after your people leave. If the police and courts around you won't do anything then you need to simply leave. There's no shame in walking away from a crazy situation, especially when you have family to consider.

nicki also brings up a good point: it's not going to stop with these nine guys. The idea of a "fair fight" isn't common in most of the world. Instead of having two people fight to establish dominance and then leaving it after that, the loser in most places will go get all his friends and family and come after you.

If you're a Canadian living in the Mediterranean then I'm almost certain you're living in Malta (as they speak English and are part of the Commonwealth). As nice as Malta must be, it's not worth risking your family's safety.
 
Hummm. This question does not make much sense coming for someone who says they grew up in a gun culture. :scrutiny: That you Mr. T?:neener:

The answer is no such gun exists.
 
Assuming this is on the level, I would say, "Get out as fast as you can".

Don't get a gun you can't use without serious prison time, and don't get into a fight with a bunch of clannish, violent people. Pretty much everything points to things ending badly for you if you stick around. I'll outline the basic options.

Option 1: Do nothing. They will either eventually forget about you (not likely), or the harassment will escalate until they injure or kill you or your wife. This is not a good option.

Option 2: Try to buy/bribe them off. Expensive, tricky, and ultimately they'll bleed you for everything you have. When they have everything you can give them, they'll go back to harassing you. Also not a good option.

Option 3: Bribe the police, or some other group, to get the bullies off your back. Most likely, you'll quickly get in over your head, and out of your pocketbook's depth. And they could turn on you, or you could get caught in the crossfire. Or the bribe might go bad. Or the straight cops might come down on you. All kinds of ways this could go bad, and it probably won't help you. Bad option.

Option 4: Reactive violence. Armed or unarmed, you wait for them to come after you, and then try to fight. Don't do this. Since they outnumber you, unarmed violence will only get you hurt or killed. Armed violence may have exactly the same effect, with the added bonus of lengthy prison time. Also, if you hurt/kill any of them, their families will probably come after you. My understanding of Mediterranean culture is limited, but from what I understand, if you mess with a man, you mess with his whole family, and the idea of Vendetta is still alive and well around there. They invented the word. This is a bad, bad option.

Option 5: Preemptive violence. You go after them. No point doing it unarmed. Basically we're talking about something dangerous and illegal, anyway. Don't do this. Either you'll successfully hurt or kill some of them (and probably go to prison, and/or get killed by their families), or you'll fail (and get killed). This is the worst possible option. Don't do it. You'll die.

Option 6: Run away. Far, far away. Take your wife if she'll go. If not, tell her that staying will only get you both killed. If she refuses to leave with you, hopefully she has family she can go back to. This is the only option worth thinking about. Run away.

There it is. You outlined what really looks like an untenable situation. When you're in one of those, you retreat. That's all there is to it. It may do you some good to think about what allies you have, but if you're having trouble, it's apparent that your wife's family either can't or won't protect you, and you have no powerful friends to speak of, so we're back to "Run away".

It's better than prison or death.
 
You need to find help with this, a gun won't help. If your wife is local get help through her family. Remember it will be your fault no matter who started this mess.
 
are we making this clear for you dude??


"There it is. You outlined what really looks like an untenable situation. When you're in one of those, you retreat. That's all there is to it. It may do you some good to think about what allies you have, but if you're having trouble, it's apparent that your wife's family either can't or won't protect you, and you have no powerful friends to speak of, so we're back to "Run away".

It's better than prison or death."
 
Curious - is this place

Croatia? Mediteranian, affinity for Hitler, willing to beat up women. Its the first place that came to mind.
 
Unless you can find a way to defeat these guys in such a way that they will be scared stiff of you and leave the manic Canadian the heck alone there's not much else to do and a lot depends on the caliber of these bullies and how much power they have. A school bully sometimes just needs a bit of a deterrent like a solid punch to the face to leave you alone or if they are truly bad they will seek revenge continually and things will be a lot worse. If you think these guys will respond well to a really really bad scare, such as their lives hanging in the balance, then you may be able to pull it off but that depends on their nature.
 
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go for the BIG pepper-spray container.........
and go in for the knee-trap-break if a fight comes.
My old martial art teacher told me, that this way
you will always be able to run from the BG in the future.


getting into court trouble in southern italy
would suck, especially if the opponents can
pull 10 witnesses for anything from nowhere.

(ahmmm..... WHY does your wife not want to leave?)
 
Leave

Know when to get out of Dodge...Know HOW to get out of Dodge!

If you cant get the law or power of numbers behind you I dont think there is much you can do.

There are recurring themes here: 1. fight back & you/family will either be killed, seroiusly hurt, or imprisoned. 2. Leave & you only your pride will hurt.

Be Safe.
 
For one, it's time you stood up for yourself in this marriage. If you cannot get her to leave with you, then you must do what is best for yourself and LEAVE.

This may sound callous, cruel, or insensitve. Whatever. The LAST thing you want is to be involved in some local tit-for-tat BS where you will always be the foreigner. First accused, and last believed. Pick up the phone, get on the computer, whatever. Buy your frigging ticket for the next flight or cruise out of that backwater and get the hell out of there.

If your wife wants to come with you, great. That means she realizes the danger there. If not, first thing you do when you get back is get a divorce, or get the marriage annulled.
 
no no and thrice no firearms.

Now I am younger and possibly closer to the idea you are talking about with regards to gangs of people and guns being difficult to get idea.

Try to avoid trouble if it does start make a door and ****!!! If you have to fight economy of actions.

Basicallu do as little a possible to the attacker to disable. the key is would this be reasonable force in the eyes of others. only use violence in defense and after all other options have been tried.


It sucks but getting away may be your only option. although I could suggest preemptive but I would not advise that as you a.) forign country B.) No Backup c.) have family/partner to think of d.0 probably not pepaed to sink to the thug level as far as they are willing.
 
or if you do get jumpeed do something so extreme they fear you. when I had the popular gang jump me alone in school changing room. doderant + zippo plus smile and giggle = 8 boys who ran away after I asked them nicely could I burn them and pointed out before they grabbed me at least one would burn.

I n my defense I had been grabbed before by a gang and the last thingI remeber was being kicked and beaten on the floor and seeing boots heading for my face, so I tended to react nastly to being jumped at the time and in this case I KNEW at least 3 of the gang of lads had knives.
 
If you show a gun, be prepared to use it. Don't use it to intimidate people, because if they call your bluff you are in WAY WORSE trouble than you were before. Best case, beat up, worst case shot dead when you discover that they have guns too and aren't bluffing.
 
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