The Citizen's Rifle

What about a hi-capacity variant of the Winchester 1895 in .308? Maybe with detachable 20-round mags? It's a lever-action, so it's PC, and with 5-round mags would look nonthreatening. I don't know if this would work, though. I don't know enough about the mechanics of the rifle.

EDIT: Heh, the lever would hit the mag, wouldn't it? :-S

srd-1 and srd-2

1st off,even thinking about designing a gun the antigunners would aproove of is enough to may me sick.2nd,and this is more important,there will be no fighting.we will slowly give our gun rights away.it will happen some day.then food will be taken away and only the elite and their servants will be left.look up executive orders on wikipedia.the constitutions already been overpowered by the new executive orders.they just have'nt used them yet.no one seems to care though.you wanna fight someone?become more aware of politics and law and open others eyes to whats going on.

sorry,i guess i kinda jumped on you.the gun does look nice.i just don't think guns are going to help us much if the shtf.if you have a gun,i guess you can take a few with you,or kill someone that killed your family to get even before your wiped out.i just think awareness will go alot farther towards delaying it.

I like the mag-fed lever gun idea. A crafty designer(maybe even an average one)could figure a way to make the MAGAZINE, INTO THE LEVER. Im going to have to play with that idea .

You mean move the entire mag to cycle the action? That's a lot of weight.

malitia mens rifle, an sks in .308. Feed by dtachable magazines 10- 15 rds to keep the weight down. thick rigid recivers, and synthetic bedded stocks

you would be better off going the route of the sniper rifle and stay away from the 308 round.if the shtf it will be the hardest round to get,followed by anything that needs to be imported into this country like the 7.62x39.223rem will always be around and rounds like 222,22-250-243,7-08,30-06,30-30,you get the idea.remember the original malitia was all snipers.oh and the 12 guage pump,it strikes terror and people don't need alot of practice.

The SKS, Mini-14, M1A, and Saiga are close enough.

im gonna get flamed for this but the m1a is a pos. they shoot very well but mud or rain and they die.

Do you guys remember the H&K SL-6\7.It met those reqmts. I'll go look for a pic!!!

Here it is!

mosinmadness, yeah, your probably gonna get flamed for that statement, cause it's B.S.

How about a Browning or Remington auto-loader with hi-cap mags, they're intended for huinting but slap on a hi-cap mag and synthetic stock and it's an assault rifle, btw awesome sketches and I'll have to keep a look out for these in the future

Remington 700 modified to take a modified M1A mag, you could do this with the autoloader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs9nDWcoIq0

i think the NRA edition Mini-14 is about as close as you can get. With Rugers current magazine offer, you can have a 16" barrel mini, and 5 20 round factory magazines for less than $800. The extra $200+ you save over an AR would put a good dent in an ammo stockpile.

True but it sounds to me like Nolo wants to move away from the .223

If we're talking about a rifle that is going to be produced in peacetime, warehoused and then distributed to conscripts / militiamen, then the AK has been designed specifically for this.

Goverment-issue "Citizen Rifle"

What I understand under "Citizen Rifle" is a rifle that would be considered "unalienable", a rifle that every US citizen would have the right to possess so as to respect the Second Amendment - and thus would enable to get rid of THE REST OF THEM, of course.

True citizens are not letting any government dictate them how much force they ought to have, so let's imagine a rifle from the government's point of view, then.

Any strong government dislikes citizens too powerful to overthrow it. This means the weapons should not be able to provide its user with a high rate of fire, for instance. e.g. Exit semi-auto.

Too light a round is not good as it enables each citizen to carry more of them. A heavy round means less ammo carried, especially in the hazardous logistics of a civil war / insurrection etc. Similarly, it must not have a military caliber, so insurgents won't be able to use captured ammo. Anything less than a .270 would not be accepted, if only because of the hunters.

So we down to, basically, a hunting rifle.

I come from France, and I can tell you that's just how much rifle you can buy without asking for a special authorisation from the county. But a lot of people have such authorisation, and a lot of french shooters have AR-15. But these are to be in the custody of the police in case of a state of emergency - and the hunting rifles, less so.

Still, the hunting rifle has its niche, in harassing techniques, sniping etc., but it requires trained shooters. Hence, few insurgents would be able to concentrate enough firepower with it to pose an immediate threat to the State.

Franc-Tireur Rifle

In 1870 the french army was meant to be supplemented by patriotic shooters, who would form a sort of milita, armed with their own weapons. These groups were called "Francs-Tireurs" and had a limited effect on the war, mainly due to the poor discipline of some of them. Nevertheless the Prussians went completely hysterical over them, and it's with the "Francs-Tireurs" in mind that the Laws of War regarding partisans (necessity to have a recognition symbol etc.) were made.

If we we to devise a "Citizen Rifle" that would be used by a "Francs-Tireurs" system in the US, then it could be a different rifle than the hunting rifle above.

In such a system, the Franc-Tireur has to purchase his own weapon and uniform, and practicaly, he has to bring his own ammo with him. A lot of Franc-Tireur had non-standard weapons and calibers, just like we would.

In this "voluntarily conscript" system, we would go closer to the AK again, but without the logistics of vast conscript armies like the soviet one, meaning "spray and pray" as well as suppressive fire techniques would not be appropriate. Given the relatively poor training and fitness of the Francs-Tireurs (when compared to a soldier), their rules of engagement should not be the same, especially regarding the range of engagement.

Hence, we could indeed contemplate the use of the .308 cartridge, which has a longer range than .223. .308 is already popular as a hunting caliber, so it is generally available, and occasional resupply could be done by the regular army as well.

In our time, scopes are no longer a luxury, and should evidently be installed on such a rifle, because of its long-range use.

The Franc-Tireur would then be a sort of marksman (not unlike the french "Chasseur" of the same 1870-1871 war) capabale of supporting regular troops or to be used in delaying the enemy, harassment, and general partisan warfare.

Weapons in this category would be the Zastava M76, scoped M14, MAS 49/56 etc.

My personal note would be to make it in a bullpup configuration, because urban combat is going to be the main form of combat (with more than half of the human population living in cities), but it requires additional training, so a traditional configuration would be better suited for all.

ADD to EDIT : Because of the affordability issue, it would be Saiga .308 with a fixed-magnification scope.

that gun you drew is semi-auto, and takes a detachable mag. It's already banned in a liberal world without being specifically named.

Think of it like this: If SKS is banned, then so is anything else like it or better

Your only bet would be something like your lever-actions and bolt rifles. Hell, if they accomplish a permenant ban on EBRs, then you can bet the next thing will be to further restrict ammo capacities to the point where a rifled musket would be as good as any choice to have in the next battle for the US.

If the gun-banners get their way, then this discussion is moot.....and the rifle we'll need will be whatever the military/police are using....because we'll have to "obtain" them from those sources....

You would be better served learning the route to your representatives district office and paying him regular visits, likewise your Senator.
Do not suit your designs to meet the whims of your legislator, change teh legislator.

If his/her staffers don't know who you are, you aren't doing it right or often enough.

Sam

Continue working to unseat him.

When was the last time you took a stroll by Steny's house?
Do not call, do not email, GO THERE. liberals love it when you are just a faceless name. You can be ignored easily but they lack any courage at all when you are in their face. They $#!t britches when you make it personal.

As nice as it is to get them defeated in elections it is even better when you make the job so taxing that they just quit.

Sam