International laws.

Most gun laws in other countries are real simple.

NO!

In Scandinavia it's actually not at all impossible to have guns, and there are more guns here than a lot of people realize. An estimated 12% of all voters are gunowners.
Unless you are in the police, military or in the homeguard, you can have weapons for hunting, or for sportshooting, which includes handguns.

Limitations are that you need to pass tests, and the police decide if you can get a license, they do a backgroundcheck. For handguns, you also need to be an active sportshooter, and compete. And there's 6 months waitinperiod for the first license.

You can not have guns for selfdefense, nor carry them in public.

ErikS said:

You can not have guns for selfdefense, nor carry them in public.

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Sort of true. I know that here atleast, there are, or atleast used to be provisions in the law for getting a license to carry. OTOH, it's nearly impossible to get one. So in theory, you can get one. In reality, you can forget it. Won't happen, ever.

Now I have a question how does the Government over there feel about weapons such as the AK, or AR derivatives?

EricS said

You can not have guns for selfdefense, nor carry them in public.

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Suppose you had a handgun or long gun in your home for sporting purposes. If you were attacked in your home by a criminal using lethal force, such a knife or an illegal firearm, could you use your sporting arm to defend yourself? Would you be prosecuted for using the firearm for self defense?

K

I know that here atleast, there are, or atleast used to be provisions in the law for getting a license to carry. OTOH, it's nearly impossible to get one. So in theory, you can get one. In reality, you can forget it. Won't happen, ever.

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A 'may issue' system.
Like many places in the US had, and a few still have.

Suppose you had a handgun or long gun in your home for sporting purposes. If you were attacked in your home by a criminal using lethal force, such a knife or an illegal firearm, could you use your sporting arm to defend yourself? Would you be prosecuted for using the firearm for self defense?

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Well, that's an interesting question. As the law of self defense is written, you are allowed to use "necessary force" to protect yourself. This should mean that if someone came into your home with a clear intent to kill you, and you happened to have a gun available (guns have to be locked away if you are not using it) then according to the law, you should be allowed to use it for self defense.

In reality, the courts decide what necessary force is, and as far as I know they always come down on the side that it wasn't necessary. So should you use a weapon to defend yourself, you probably would be facing jailtime.

There was actually a case here fairly recently where a youthgang had repeatedly harassed a family for several years, and then came out to their remote home late at night, drunk and armed with wood logs, threatening the family that they were there to "settle it". The family called the police, who refused to come, and it ended with the father getting his shotgun and going outside to face the intruders. Two of the youths were shot, one died, and the father was promptly prosecuted for manslaughter on the premise that he opened the door to face them and that he reloaded after he fired the first two shots. He only got off because his lawyer claimed insanity induced by strong seditives and alcohol earlier in the evening. But the case is appealed, he might still be convicted.

There's also a case up north were a landowner scared away a thief, and fired a warningshot with his shotgun, and a recoil hit the thief in the leg. I believe he has charges pending too. (The landowner, not the thief)

I do know of other cases where people have used guns to protect themselfes, but in all the cases where they weren't prosecuted it was because no shots were fired, or none of the attackers were ever found. Usually it's cases like older people in rural areas having intruders come inte their homes, and when they grabbed their rifle the intruders ran.

So in reality, should you use a gun to defend yourself here, you will most likely get convicted for it, and loose all your weapons.

Viking,
I've heard about that provision for self defense, but I actually didn't know if it was a real law or just an urban legend. It's in one of the Carl Hamilton books, I believe.

Sort of true. I know that here atleast, there are, or atleast used to be provisions in the law for getting a license to carry. OTOH, it's nearly impossible to get one. So in theory, you can get one. In reality, you can forget it. Won't happen, ever.

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That's my understanding of Canada too. It's possible to get a license to carry a handgun in Canada, but they are very difficult (near impossible for most people) to get. It's my understanding that long guns (rifles/shotguns) may be carried there for defense against wildlife in the more remote areas. In fact, the form filled out for bringing long guns into Canada gives that as one option for the reason to bring them...but I don't know much about the specific rules on this.

Sort of true. I know that here atleast, there are, or atleast used to be provisions in the law for getting a license to carry. OTOH, it's nearly impossible to get one. So in theory, you can get one. In reality, you can forget it. Won't happen, ever.

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Ok, I had to google it, and it is indeed allowed.
According to the Police homepage, 'licens to have a pistol, revolver or similar weapon for protection should be allowed only for an absolute striking need. Such a licens should be able to be allowed as an exception to someone that due to their personal protection has an exceptional need for a weapon' (my translation)

It then goes on to mention security personnel and such. So in reality, you can pretty much forget it, the police will simply offer you their protection instead.

I have never heard of any real case where this was allowed, except when Yassir Arafat came to visit, he was allowed to keep his weapon, and I think they used this law as an excuse.

The family called the police, who refused to come, and it ended with the father getting his shotgun and going outside to face the intruders. Two of the youths were shot, one died, and the father was promptly prosecuted for manslaughter

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This sounds very much like the police were acting as a security detail for the thugs.

Now I have a question how does the Government over there feel about weapons such as the AK, or AR derivatives?

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Our government hates them. Can't hunt with anything semi automatic based on a military design if it later than 1942 for example. So no SKS, no AK47, no FAL, no AR, no G3's etc. Springfield M1 is a bit iffy. Might be legal. Very likely to be illegal though. Garands, M1 Carbines, AG42 Ljungman and a couple of other military designs are cool with them though. Ruger Mini-14 is ok. A bunch of rifles from H&K that takes hi-cap mags are ok as well. They are debating the G22 rifle at the moment. CX4 Storm is illegal IIRC (barrel to short), RX4 might be legal. I've got to check on that, it'd be nice to have a rifle that takes AR-15 mags...
You can get them for sporting purposes though. Hell, you can get a proper assault rifle or submachine gun for sporting purposes here. Hard, very very hard, but possible. Also, up until maybe...1995 or somesuch, there were a lot of licenses issued for full auto pistols, like the Glock 18, and the FA CZ75 and such, simply because most cops didn't know that they had the rock n roll switch. Then someone took notice of this, and issued a memo stating "do not issue licenses for these guns, 'mkay?", with a list included of the guns with the happy switch.

HankB said:

This sounds very much like the police were acting as a security detail for the thugs.

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Seems to be SOP over here. A case from my little town from just a few days ago: A mink breeder called the police (their switch is in GOTHENBURG, 130 km from where we are) about some unknown miscreants intruding on his property. Their response? Call in a report on Monday. This while they had several cars in the area, and could've sent one of them and a K9 unit as well to the site.

Also this weekend, anarchist rioters tore up Malmö, and the street cops were ordered to stand down and not "incite more trouble". One of the brass even ordered them (tried to atleast) to take off their helmets, and put on their cloth caps, so they wouldn't "provoke"! This while the leftards were flinging bottles and preparing molotov cocktails! The cops (street level) have now filed reports against their bosses'. About 40 of them IIRC, for "inciting to safety and workplace violations", and probably something about ordering them to look the other way when there's a crime commited.
And they wonder why people don't have much good to say about the police over here!

Most gun laws in other countries are real simple.

NO!

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Actually, in most countries it is:

#1 Are you Arisocratic Gentry, Rich, or Famous? If yes, then YES
#2 Are you a criminal, then we will look the other way, so YES

Everyone else, NO

I had a friend who worked for Larry Flint of Hustler for a short while. Larry had at least one armed bodyguard with him in public. My friend was on a trip with Larry to the UK (maybe more of Europe too) on Larry's private plane, and he said the armed guard had no problem entering the country, which he found suprising.

My reply was the british government was well practiced in having one set of rules for the commoners and one for the Gentry, as a rich and famous American, Larry Flint was probably assigned to Gentry status in their minds, so of course he didn't have to follow the rules for commoners

A lot of posters on gun forums can't even describe accurately many of the details of gun laws in this country or their own state. Why would you expect them to be knowledgeable about foreign laws?

K

Hell, you can get a proper assault rifle or submachine gun for sporting purposes here. Hard, very very hard, but possible

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At least you guys have a shot, but it seems like pretty much if you get enough endorsement letters you can have what you want.

RX4

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Those are really neat cant get them here not "sporting" enough.

Gunnerpalace said:

At least you guys have a shot, but it seems like pretty much if you get enough endorsement letters you can have what you want.

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Yeah, a small shot. I do remember seeing posters about SMG matches and the organization in my air rifle club when I was a wee kid. Dunno WHERE they held matches, but I guess close to some military shooting range.

Those are really neat cant get them here not "sporting" enough.

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Funny that, with the "sporting purpose". Is there any other place that has similar laws about imports? Here, while stuff is hard to get, everything is possible. I've heard that there's a few dealers who have heavy machine guns and grenade launchers hidden in their vaults...guess that if you can show a reason for it, and get the license, it's there for you to pick up and bring home.

The International Scholars amicus brief filed in Heller has a cited discussion of several Western countries gun laws (Canada, Italy, Austria, Germany and France IIRC). If you are interested in that subject it is worth looking at.

You can get them for sporting purposes though. Hell, you can get a proper assault rifle or submachine gun for sporting purposes here. Hard, very very hard, but possible.

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There is actually an easier way. If you join the Home Guard, I believe standard issue is the AK4 assault rifle, and you get to store it at home and practise with it reguarly. The Home Guard is required to have their guns readily available, so as to be able to be a rapid response unit.

The Home Guard is basically a militia, civilians that act as a military unit in times of need. One of their tasks is that in case of emergency they go out as first responders to guard key installations until the military get there. To be able to do that, they need to have their weapons at hand.

Yeah, a small shot. I do remember seeing posters about SMG matches and the organization in my air rifle club when I was a wee kid. Dunno WHERE they held matches, but I guess close to some military shooting range.

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No, they held those at any shooting range long enough. I remember when I was a kid shooting Mausers, some of the Home Guard guys showed up at the range to practise for a competition with there m/45 SMGs. Home Guard used to carry m/45 too, before it was discontinued.

ErikS said:

There is actually an easier way. If you join the Home Guard, I believe standard issue is the AK4 assault rifle, and you get to store it at home and practise with it reguarly. The Home Guard is required to have their guns readily available, so as to be able to be a rapid response unit.

The Home Guard is basically a militia, civilians that act as a military unit in times of need. One of their tasks is that in case of emergency they go out as first responders to guard key installations until the military get there. To be able to do that, they need to have their weapons at hand.

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Only three problems with that:
1, it's not your own rifle. What the government giveth, the government taketh.
2, they don't issue any ammo for it anymore, and you can't use any you have for a privately held weapon either because:
3, they are now required to be locked with a thingummy stuck in the breech, and no, you won't have the key for it . Not all rifles are locked up, yet.
Also, in some places the home guard members have to store their weapons centrally, which sort of defeats the purpose of the whole thing .
"'scuse me mr. Foreign Soldier, I just need to run off and fetch my weapon, and pray that my CO isn't dead yet, and that he still has the keys, and that we have any ammo left. Be back in 30 minutes or so, 'mkay?"
Swiss system would be better IMHO. AFAIK, they don't require the weapons to be locked up, and they probably don't care much if you take it out for some practice with your own ammo, as long as you don't touch the emergency cans issued for it.

Is there any other place that has similar laws about imports?

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Don't know but we have the wackiest stuff here, Any pistol imports have a test and "points" I forget how it goes but too many or too few (one of them) and it is not allowed. Rifles it is up to the examiner thankfully we must have some good people in there.

And want to get certain optics and accessories you have to go through the nightmare known as export.

I might write something about the Belgian Federal firearms law, and how regional law connects to it if you ppl are interested in this

Well, point 1 I think is mostly academic. the Police can recall any gun license at any time, even for the hunting rifle you've owned for years.
2 and 3 was actually news to me, I know there was talk about it after there was an incident with some Home Guard guy who shot someone with his, but I didn't know they had allready done it. My knowledge on it is obviously a bit dated.
As for ammo, I *think* you could use .308 in the AK4? So technically, if you own a .308 rifle, you could have ammo for it at home. (You're not allowed to possess ammo other than for the guns you have license for) But if you cant store the AK in a usable way, that's pretty much a moot point anyway.

One thing though, I think a few of all those AK4s got legs before the government reigned them in, because I know there are people out in rural Sweden that have theirs still, with ammo.
(At one memorable time, I happened to visit a house and noticed a fully loaded and ready to rock AK4 behind the door, "just in case". I was told there was a local dispute going on concerning hunting and fishing rights)

But I agree with the Swiss system, that would be great, and it's obviously is no problem there.
With all the bank robberies in rural areas here, I'm just waiting for the time the local outdoorsmen will be at the same place at the same time and decide to do some target practise.