Non NFA Burst Trigger?

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VorpalSpork

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The Steyr AUG has a pull-through trigger. You pull the trigger a little bit for a single shot, and you can pull it farther to continue firing in full auto. I thought this was interesting on a number of levels, but recently it got me thinking about similar systems in a new way.

USC 26 § 5845(b) defines the term machinegun:
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

A hand cranked Gatling gun isn't a machinegun because it's not a single function of the trigger, the shooter must continually perform an action, in this case cranking, to fire it. A double barreled double triggered shotgun is not a machinegun because you need to continue to pull your finger back through the second trigger after you fire the first shot in order to fire the second shot. Combining all these ideas, what if you had an auto loading firearm with a single trigger that had multiple sears in it that disengaged in succession the farther you pulled back on the trigger?

This otherwise overly complicated mechanism could give you the effect of a multiple round burst, hopefully without being classified under the National Firearms Act as a machinegun. Do you know if a design like this has been submitted to the ATF for classification? I suppose if they classified the Akins Accelerator as a machinegun they would classify this as one also, regardless of whether it technically deserved to be or not.
 
Pulling the trigger all the way would be a single pull firing more than one round. I promise you the ATF would call it a machine gun.
 
What you are describing is awfully close to the 3-round burst trigger in the M16A2.

We already know what the ATF considers them to be without asking!

rcmodel
 
That would be illegal... unless you went through NFA procedures.

Although I've thought of something for a while.... look up tippmann response trigger, it is a trigger system for a paintball gun that makes it shoot rapid fire. It works by having a small piston behind the trigger that pushes the trigger forward after every shot. The piston is operated from the bolt moving back and forth. This theory could easily be used in a rifle and it wouldn't technically be illegal as you are manually pulling the trigger each time, it is just mechanicaly reseting the trigger to it's original position... almost like bump firing, but this works significantly better. With the paintball gun you can get about 10 shots a second off.

EDIT
Just looked up Akins Accelerator, I guess my idea would be classified as a MG too..... .
 
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With the M16 or other typical bursts modes, you always get same number of rounds fired. Once you activate the trigger, the gun will fire by itself until it has shot the full burst, or runs out of ammo. With my idea you would get a different number of rounds depending on how far you pulled the trigger. That is a key difference.
 
I was under the impression the M16 uses some sort of 'ratchet' or 'gear' system, in that once you pull the trigger, if you let go before 3 rounds are fired, and you pull the trigger again, you may only get one or two rounds depending on how many you fired with the last pull of the trigger. Is this correct? Or is it more internet bs? I haven't had experience with the M16A2 so I don't know personally.
 
With the M16 or other typical bursts modes, you always get same number of rounds fired. Once you activate the trigger, the gun will fire by itself until it has shot the full burst

Not correct. You can stop in the middle of the 3 round burst if you are fast enough. If you hold the trigger down you will get 3 and only 3 shots fired but you can stop the process.

MP5K is the same, you can stop the burst.

Your idea of the "sub triggers" during a single pull would be considered an MG as well, it's come up before.
 
With my idea you would get a different number of rounds depending on how far you pulled the trigger. That is a key difference.
This is what will happen. Whoever is going to prosecute you will take the rifle to the range, pull the trigger all the way back in one motion, observe multiple rounds fired, and conclude that with one function of the trigger multiple shots were fired.
 
I was under the impression the M16 uses some sort of 'ratchet' or 'gear' system, in that once you pull the trigger, if you let go before 3 rounds are fired, and you pull the trigger again, you may only get one or two rounds depending on how many you fired with the last pull of the trigger. Is this correct?

100% correct.
 
Not that I disagree, but why then is a double barreled shotgun with a single trigger not considered a machine gun?
 
because you must allow the trigger to reset between shots, just like a 2 shot semi auto.

(except the shotgun is powered by inertia, as opposet to gas or recoil.)
 
Or pull 2 triggers, if it has individual triggers for each barrel.
 
I may have misspoke. With a normal burst trigger, if you let go of the trigger quickly mid way through a burst, you won't get the full burst. Or it could run out of ammo, jam, etc. My point is, with that system, once you have pulled the trigger, you only need to continue to hold it for subsequent rounds to be fired. Since holding is not a "function of the trigger." you have one function of the trigger, and multiple shots. Clearly a machinegun. With my idea, you must continue to pull the trigger farther for each subsequent shot. One function of the trigger per shot, it's just that the trigger doesn't always move forward between functions. So I would think it would not be a machinegun.

Jorg, no one has suggested building one without either getting the ATF to confirm in writing that it wouldn't be a machinegun, or doing the appropriate NFA paperwork. So there wouldn't be a prosecutor involved. The ATF could spin the crank on a Gatling gun and call that a single function of the trigger, but they don't.
 
If the ATF considers the Akins Accelerator to be a machine gun, then I have no doubt that they would consider your theoretically proposed device to be a machine gun.

I'm not familiar enough with double barreled shotguns to speak with any authority as to whether you must allow the trigger to reset between shots or not, but even if you don't, such firearms probably get a pass from the feds because the design has been around forever, many, many people have them, and even if the trigger mechanism could technically be considered full-auto, it doesn't matter because the capacity is limited to two rounds.
 
The ATF could spin the crank on a Gatling gun and call that a single function of the trigger, but they don't.

In the gatling gun case the crank is not the trigger, so it's totally different.

Feel free to send a letter to tech branch and ask them, but you will be told it's a machinegun I'm sure.
 


Folks, ATF classified a shoe string as a machine gun for a couple of months last year. The Hell Fire, a device to repeatedly pull the trigger of a 10/22 has been classified as a machine gun.

 
In the gatling gun case the crank is not the trigger, so it's totally different.

So if you were to put a pinion on the crank of a Gatling gun and use a long rack to turn the crank it would be a machinegun? Or a pulley and a rope?

Is the difference between a continuous rotary motion and a continuous linear motion that significant?
 
Is the difference between a continuous rotary motion and a continuous linear motion that significant?

According to ATF it is.

In case I haven't used my tagline this week.....

"Gun laws are stupid"
 
So why doesn't someone make a gun with three triggers you pull at once.

They could each be a thin as a penny stacked next to each other. (Think of the trigger on an xd or glock).

Then 1 trigger pull pulls three independent triggers that each fire the gun once.

Just that the second one is delayed and the third is delayed after the second one.

So that in effect you have a 3 round burst but in reality you pulled 3 separate triggers.
 
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