A Revolver and a Mock Trial....

Revolvers don't generally have safeties...
No, folks don't typically pay to do such a trivial job. That's be like paying some one to change your oil... Oh.
Since I know of no service that provides for gun cleaning, I have no idea.
Were I to set up a gun cleaning business, $6.50 sounds ballpark.

- Revolvers don't have safeties.

- Some gun shops will offer a cleaning service where they will detail strip the weapon and run it through a sonic cleaner.

- $6.50 is not a realistic price. Taking a guess, basic gun smithing work will run around $20-30 for something simple like replacing sights. Trigger jobs are a bit more.

There used to be an indoor range in the Seattle area (Bellevue, actually, but not Wade's) that would clean your gun for you. I don't recall the fee, but I'm sure it was more than $6.50 fifteen years ago.

Lazy writer of the hypo case. They should know it's important to get the factual details right so that they are not an unintended distraction.

Well, some folks will pay other folks to strip the suckers down all the way, do a thorough degrease/blow-out, then lube 'em back up and put 'em back together. And there -are- some wear parts on a revolver that might need to be replaced occasionally, but that'd would cost more than $6.50. And if the thing was badly leaded, well, that'd take a darn sight longer than $6.50 worth of time.

I'm guessing that your "case" was probably written back about 1970 or so...

Personally, I'd lobby to get the case thrown out, simply because I'll bet that you will be unable to locate a .38 revolver which incorporates a "safety catch."

- $6.50 is not a realistic price. Taking a guess, basic gun smithing work will run around $20-30 for something simple like replacing sights. Trigger jobs are a bit more.

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Oops, forgot the "maintenance on 'safety catch'" part.
Yeah, any amount of gunsmithing would cost over twenty bucks, if you're lucky.

I am a recent law graduate...and a departing member of my school's Trial Team. As part of my Trial Ad coursework, I was counsel for the defendant in a mock trial that turned on self defense/homicide. The use of a gun by the defendant was a big part of the case. Led to a conviction in most instances where it wasn't addressed properly by the defense.

Tell me more about your fact pattern? What side of the case are you working? What is your issue with the gun?

Something to think about: "safety catch" could also be "transfer bar."

The Marine is a liar. He killed his ex-wife. String him up.

Uh, no safety catch on a revolver. Pay someone to clean my gun?? My father would come back from the grave to kick my a*^ for that one.

There was another moot court question here recently. The best advice I saw was from an attorney who commented that the purpose is to see how you prepare briefs and argue the facts on hand, not for you to go out and question the "facts" of the case that are provided for purposes of illustration.

Any other attorney's want to chime in as to the validity of that advice? I just don't want this guy to spend time chasing down whether the gunsmithing work was "priced right" or whether or not revolvers have "safety catches" or if they are talking about a transfer bar if that's not the point.

Were you instructed to take the facts as "real" for purposes of the trial or are you supposed to investigate the veracity of the info?

I"m just saying it does no good to argue against the facts being unrealistic IF you are assumed to take them as real.

For those that don't remember or to young to even know the S&W Centennial had a grip safety and a pin was located under the stock to pin the safety down if you wanted. This revolver has recently been reintroduced on the market though I doubt it would have a pin to defeat a safety feature.

There may be confusion between a safety catch and a transfer bar safety system, that prevents the hammer impact from reaching the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

The transfer bar system is designed to prevent accidental discharge due to a blow to the hammer (such as dropping a cocked firearm) when the trigger is not pulled. It is common on newer revolvers, and was available on a few older models as well.

Ok, a couple more thoughts:

The vast majority of U.S. manufactured revolvers do not have a manual "safety catch" that the user must move in order to fire the revolver.

However, there are exceptions. Some older S&W revolvers have a "grip safety" to prevent accidental discharge. There are also some uncommon revolvers, both U.S. made and foreign made, that have actual "safety catches" that must be released before firing. I know for a time the NYC Transit Police carried a revolver with a manual safety. I don't know the manufacturer, but it would be S&W, Colt, or Ruger. There are also some French or Belgium revolvers that have manual safeties or "safety catches."

Then there is the fact that the terminology may be incorrect. It's possible they are refering to the hammer block safety or even the hammer when he refers to a safety catch. (Yes, that would be incorrect, but do you KNOW what he means?)

As far as a gun shop cleaning his revolver for him, yes, that is reasonable. I know gun shops that do that and people who have taken advantage of that. Especially if the gun needs to be detail stripped and all the old lube removed. I don't remove the sideplat on my S&W revolvers myself, for instance.

Now the price is very unrealistic. It would be more like $40 to $60. But, WHEN WAS THIS SCENARIO WRITTEN? And, HOW MUCH DID THE WRITERS OF THE SCENARIO KNOW ABOUT GUNS? That's one of the things I'm talking about when I asked if you were supposed to take the facts as presented as being "real" or if you are supposed to question the facts. If you argue based on the fact that the supposed work was too cheap to have really been done, only to find that the scenario is old and the price is supposed to be realistic, then you've shot yourself in the foot. The same argument goes for whehter or not the gun is supposed to really have a safety catch for purposes of argument.

Do you have any other info on the gun for this scenario? Are you given a manufacturer or model name? Are you able to ask for additional information about any details of the scenario or do you have to work with the facts as provided? If you have to work with the facts "as is" then I wouldn't overly stress the cost of the work or what exactly he had done since you don't really know if that is "realistic" within the scenario or not.

Let me know if I'm not making sense or if you get what I'm trying to say.

Safety catch??? Maybe the internal lock?

I wouldn't clean my own guns for $6.50 (if I have the choice). Sounds unrealistic.

Maybe it's a reference to a half cock notch on a single action? Other than that it sounds like nonsense.

There was another moot court question here recently. The best advice I saw was from an attorney who commented that the purpose is to see how you prepare briefs and argue the facts on hand, not for you to go out and question the "facts" of the case that are provided for purposes of illustration.

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Very true. Which is why the author of the hypothetical should take care to make sure the "facts" do not create a distrction because they are unrealistic.

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my local range will do an "ultrasonic cleaning" (whatever that means) for $30 (keep in mind that's nyc prices)

http://wspr.us/
(click on "pro shop/gunsmithing")

I cannot remember ever meeting a United States Marine that would pay someone to clean his firearm!!

I cannot remember ever meeting a United States Marine that would pay someone to clean his firearm!!
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Yeah---because the guys D.I. would reappear and kick his *&^!

I concur with those who have already mentioned that the real trick to these mock trial problems is ignoring "red herring" facts when you are prepping your case. The cost of the repair likely has nothing to do with the overall disposition of the legal issues you are facing. The "safety catch" is probably more of the same.

I would assume you have a set witness list correct? Does this list include a "firearms expert"? Does a Perry Mason moment help prove your case?

"You see ladies and gentlemen there is NO SAFETY CATCH!!!" (insert music here).

This was probably written by the same people who still think they can get a "tune up" or a water pump done for $50.

a local indoor range here charges $40 to clean a gun!!!

Two things, no safety as stated on a revolver, and no Marine, active or discharged would NOT clean his own weapon.