Are shotguns really best for home defense?

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Have to disagree. If you have a .223 the BG isn't likely to go down on the first shot. With any gauge shotgun he is.

I don't think most people can shrug off a 55gr M193 round @ 3,100 fps to the chest at close range....

If someone could, you have bigger problems anyways....
 
I don't think most people can shrug off a 55gr M193 round @ 3,100 fps to the chest at close range....

If someone could, you have bigger problems anyways....
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We're talking immediate stops here. I know a .223 will definatly hurt but think about it. Which one is more likely to stop the threat dead in his tracks? I don't know about you but I'd much rather be shot with a .223 in the chest than with a 12ga. with 00 buck anywhere in my torso at close range. You?

Besides what about the over penetration issue. 00 buck has a much shorter range than .223.
 
For moving from room to room while a potential threat is in the home, I would want a handgun ( prefer a G-17). When my loved ones are all accounted for, and we are all situated in the same room, waiting for the police to arrive, My gun of choice is a Mossberg 500 persuader 12 Ga. loaded with 00-buck. My 2 cents on the matter.
 
the best hd gun is a 10mm uzi full auto with extended mag folding stock and recoil control stick....but now realistically the shotguns the best since all you need to do to switch from in house (000 buck) to helping at distance in the street or something is load a slug
 
I think it's really personal preference.

I'll take 30 rounds of high velocity rifle fire over 5-8 rounds of arguably better stopping power. If I need to make a second shot with my AR-15, so be it. Not that difficult.
 
Just reading OP. Home defense should mean you hunker down in a defensible position and call the Police. THAT is where the size/power comes in.
Also many (guys esp) have fired a pump shotgun at some point in their life. It is also (slightly) harder to shoot yourself with a long arm. (in vital spot) There is no temptation to do quick draws/spin gun/etc and wind up pointing muzzle at yourself.
That said the shotgun is not my "go to" weapon even in bedroom. (its my wife's) :) I move to head of stairs with AR and pistol (and cover, light infront of me pointed down stairs)

I have always suggested a shotgun for bedroom gun. That "cute little shinny pistol" is not a good choice for home defense.
 
We're talking immediate stops here. I know a .223 will definatly hurt but think about it. Which one is more likely to stop the threat dead in his tracks? I don't know about you but I'd much rather be shot with a .223 in the chest than with a 12ga. with 00 buck anywhere in my torso at close range. You?

Besides what about the over penetration issue. 00 buck has a much shorter range than .223.

A 55gr FMJ going just over 3000 FPS is going to do a spectacular amount of damage if you hit someone center of mass at spitting distance. Unless they're wearing plates, you're really not liable to need a second shot if the first connects.

As far as range goes...again I'm going to point out that at the distances involved in neighborhoods, shotgun loads are STILL going to be dangerous no matter what you do. Buckshot doesn't magically shed velocity and drop to the ground at the 100 yard mark.

The only problem I have with Box O Truth is the wall boards where all very close together. The results probably would have been very different if they where spaced out to room size.

You mean like this one?

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

It's worth noting that at least part of one of the .223 loads stopped in the 4th wall. None of the 00 buck from the 12 gauge were stopped by any of the walls. Although they did spread out quite nicely to the point where any bystanders behind the 4th wall would have been almost guaranteed to sustain injuries from the shot.
 
Yes, if your shotgun is an O/U birdgun with a 32" barrel, then you're going to have problems moving around in your house. However, from someone who has cleared buildings with a shotgun, a 18.5 to 20" with or without a full stock makes an excellent CQB weapon and is very manuverable if you practice with it.

The real question is not what hardware to use, it is what job do you have to do?
--Are you in a townhouse? A development of concrete-block homes? A farmhouse on 40 acres?
--Is the farthest range of engagement under 10 yards and inside? Over 10 yards and inside? Out to 100+ yards and outside?
--Do you live where the PD will respond quickly, or are you going to be on your own for an extended period of time?
--Do you live alone? With a wife or girlfriend? With kids in separate rooms? On different floors?
--Do you have the training, skill and determination (a.k.a. foolishness) to go goblin hunting in your house or are you planning to bunker down in a defensive position and call for help?
--Is your most probable threat a burglar armed only with a screwdriver or crowbar? 1 to 3 home invaders with knives/guns looking for soft targets? An armed and body-armored gang that is specifically targeting your house for an assault?

For me (no kids, armed wife, single family home with wood/plaster walls, plenty of training, facing a non- or lightly armed burglar threat, <5min PD response w/ 1-5 officers depending on the time and day) the solution is a pump gun on a sling as primary with a semi-auto pistol on my belt as backup (Federal Tactical Flitecontrol 00 buck, and 180gr HP) and wife with a .357 and a cell phone. I am going hunting, I know my terrain, and I have practiced moving/clearing rooms in my home (then again, I have "issues" :rolleyes:).
In my opinion, 12ga offers better odds of hits on target, especially if you have not practiced engaging a moving person while dealing with the stress/fear of a life and death situation (where your ability to aim, focus on sights, hold your weapon steady, etc might be compromised). Also at close range you're potentially putting a lot more lead with a lot more wound channels into a torso maximising your ability to put the threat on his back immediately and on the first shot. A .223 to the torso will put a threat on his back eventually (or with multiple hits) but at close range you may not have the luxury of time on your side. If the recoil or size/weight issue of the shotgun and the overpenetration of a rifle still puts you off, I'd recommend a carbine-type weapon (at work its an MP5 chambered in .40). It's lighter, still excellent for CQB and packs a punch that can put a threat down. On a side note, I do not advocate PG shotguns or collapsable stocks for one simple reason--if the goblin still manages to get close in or if my weapon fails for some reason, the buttstock of my gun suddenly becomes a great weapon in it's own right and I can close with the enemy with a decided advantage over just a barrel (I think I already stated that I have "issues").
 
I can't believe people are opting for a handgun over a shotgun. Ask yourself, what do SWAT use to clear rooms?

Shotguns (most often Remington 870's), SMG's (most often MP5's), and Assault Rifles (most often M4's).

Given that most of us cannot own a full-auto MP5 or M4, the best option is a shotgun. Consider this:

If you're using a standard load of 00 Buckshot (as you should), you're firing 9 pellets of .33 caliber simultaneously. That immediate dispersal of power is why the shotgun is hands-down the best "stopper." A SMG does not fire 9 rounds instantly. So for the first shot, the shotgun is #1.

If we look at follow-up shots, and we assume that you can pump and fire 1 round per second, you're looking at a rate of fire of 540 projectiles/second. The MP5 has a firing rate of 800 rounds/second. You could argue about reloading and controllability (I'm not sure you'd have enough control of your SMG if you just hold down the trigger), but I think you get the picture. The shotgun is the submachine gun of the common man.

Then there's some people who say that a shotgun's spread at across-the-room distances is about fist-sized (true-- the general rule of thumb is one inch of shot spread for every yard of distance from the muzzle), and that this negates the increased "chance to hit" of a shotgun. What a bold and totally wrong statement.

First, the shotgun is a shoulder-fired long arm which immediately improves its pointability and practical accuracy over the handgun.

Second, at five yards, you've got a 5 inch group... which if my math is correct, gives you a 100 MOA hit diameter. You'd have to be really off-target to miss with a shotgun. Let me put it this way-- you still have to aim, but flinching won't be the difference between a hit or a miss.

Finally, the multiple hits gives you a much higher probability of hitting something that counts (as in, vital organs) than a handgun. You can get the job done with a handgun, but you have a much higher likelihood of needing second, third, fourth, etc. shots. That means time. If your attacker is also armed, that may be time that you don't have.

There's a reason why the shotgun has been the home-defense weapon of choice for so long. Unless you have a full-auto SMG available to you, go with the shotgun. Those who think a handgun should be your primary need to stop taking tactical advice from Halo. Put your handgun on your hip and put a shotgun into your shoulder.
 
I've made this remark before:

I don't really have much in the way of neighbors, so howzabout once I've identified the threat, I lock myself in the bedroom and proceed to spray mag after mag of 7.62x39 FMJ through the walls in the general direciton of the bad guy?

I'm only half-joking. Obviously, I'd want to stop the BG right THEN AND THERE, and confirm that he's down, and not about to send a stray bullet through the walls towards me or my family.

But, tactically, is my theory really that unsound? My house would look like swiss cheese when I got done, but it makes you think....
 
If you ain't hitting, you ain't suppressing. If your opponent was determined, he'd know where you were from the holes, and have a good chance of taking you out.

And you might just run out of ammo and never get a hit.
 
9mm will easily go right through my wall and into my neighbors house
Again, it depends upon your house, some of us have brick walls.
Of course, you also need to think about what you have between you and your children.


With any gauge shotgun he is.
That CERTAINLY doesn't include the 28 gauge or .410! I think it's what, a gauge minimum?

And it's always nice to hear what those who have actually seen combat think, I see Vern advocates a shotgun.(And thanks for serving!)


He emphasizes the importance of practice.
Does practice with a rifle transfer well?
 
Gotta add my vote: yes! Shotguns really are best for HD.

Many folks really like 00 buck for HD and I heartily agree. Each 00 buck pellet weighs about 55 grains which is close to half the weight of a more or less standard 9mm bullet. Now put 8 or 9 of those together and you have a lot of smackdown power. The shells I use calculate out to about 1400 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. That's more than twice the energy of a .357 magnum. That's not a knock on my .357 (which I dearly love) just the reality of the situation. Shotguns bring a lot of energy to the party without near the over-penetration issues that you get with a high powered rifle.
 
If you ain't hitting, you ain't suppressing. If your opponent was determined, he'd know where you were from the holes, and have a good chance of taking you out.

And you might just run out of ammo and never get a hit.

True true.
 
We're talking immediate stops here. I know a .223 will definatly hurt but think about it.

While the 12ga is more powerful shot for shot vs. the .223, in the vast majority of cases, a criminal will most likely stop in his tracks with the first shot of either. If more shots are needed, that shouldn't be too hard with the light recoil of the .223.

Besides what about the over penetration issue. 00 buck has a much shorter range than .223.

FBI studies suggest otherwise, .223 is not as likely to overpenetrate as even many pistol rounds...
 
Whichever one you are most proficient with is best. If you fire your AR every weekend and only bring out the shotgun once a year to shoot a couple shells through it, the AR is best, and vice versa.
Shotguns may be more politically correct to a bunch of uninformed jurors, provided it's not all tacticooled out like so many are now, but a good attorney should be able to diffuse the bias with either.
 
If I'm checking on a noise that I'm not sure of. It'll probably be a handgun.

If I know someone is in my home? Getting the family in behind a mattress, wife or myself on the phone while holding the 870 on the door. IMO there is nothing more devastating at close range. Want to stop the threat? I don't see much better than 00 Buckshot.
 
No one uses Crimson Trace?

I can't believe that in all these pages of posts, no one has mentioned the Crimson Trace laser grip sights.

They replace the standard grips on a large variety of handguns, are easily zeroed, are always ready to go as soon as you squeeze the grip in a ready-to-fire mode and target acquisition in low-light situations can't be beat.

I have one on my 1911 .45 acp and can rapidly shoot a 2" group at 10 yards using the laser sight when I can't even see the iron sights. Unless you do something stupid, like yank the trigger or forget everything you know about shooting a handgun, the bullet is going to go very close to where that little point of light is glowing. Oh, yes. Don't forget the intimidation factor if you are lucky enough to not have to shoot.

Having said that, I also believe that, if you have your family gathered in a safe room or just the same room, it is hard to beat a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck.

Warhorse
 
I just keep a pistol with me around the house. In my wildest nightmares I will have to fight my way to the closet where the shotgun is hanging.

My answer.

Shotgun/Pistol combo
 
+1 to shotgun pistol combo.

A psitol to check out noises or if staying in one room is unavoidable and a shotgun when barricading is possible.
 
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