Defensive use of the pistol

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mercop

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Everyone has said or heard someone else say "he/she is a good shot". What most people mean when they say this is that a particular person is good at hitting a targets, usually on a static range. When was the last time you heard someone say "he/she is a good at shooting people who are trying to kill him or others"? Seldom I would imagine because it just does not happen every day and if it does seldom more than once or twice to police much less civilians.

For the vast majority of shooters there level of skill is based on offensive prowess. By that I mean they shoot at targets when they are good and ready, or maybe even one someone else's cue, someone that is not trying to kill them. Even today many police officers still do not have the benefit of Simmuntion or air soft to replicate having to draw and fire their sidearm in direct response to someone shooting at them. People that have actually been involved in shootings are usualy much more humble when it comes to Monday morning quarterbacking over the percentage of hits make by police in actual shootings.

The most basic example is shooting free throws in basketball vs from the field. Even with nobody in their way how often do we see great basketball players miss free throws? Pretty often. When you are on offense you normally only have to concentrate on one thing and usually have the luxury of starting when you decide to. This is a massive departure than defense in which you have to counter attack as you defend or make defensive maneuvers that start when someone else decides to take action.

What physically has to take place for you to shoot another person? It's simple really, you just have to pull the trigger while the barrel is in line with the person. Notice that there is nothing about the need for sights to accomplish this. We know that the vast majority of shooting occur inside of seven yards with many actually occurring at 3-5 feet. If I hold my Glock 23 in my hand and extend it in front of me I measure 36-37 inches. So if I attempt to use my sights at an distance of 3-5 feet I would essentially be handing my gun to my attacker. Realize I am only trying to make the point that if you train and believe that the only way you can put accurate rounds on target is by using the sites you put yourself at a sever disadvantage. The idea is to just get the gun between your and the bad guy and pull the trigger. Repeat as needed. If depending on the totality of the situation you have the time and distance to view and use your sites it would only make good sense to do so.

Whether boxing, knife fighting or shooting it is our natural response to face our opponent head on even to the point that when viewed from the rear of either person the view of the other is severely limited. Keep this in mind when drawing from the holster. If the trigger is pulled when the pistol is outside your silhouette misses are probable. For this reason train yourself to keep your pistol close to the body during the draw to increase the amount of time and space the barrel is between your and the attacker. Avoid "swinging up" to the target and work on getting the gun between you and the treat. Much more important and getting the sights between you and the threat.

Practicing this with air soft will do wonders for your defensive handgun skills. You will also find out that you will likely trade rounds with your attacker since once again it is "defense". Another thing that force on force does is humble people out. Few people look smooth when defending against an attack. This seems to go against the grain of people who like to pat themselves on the back over pretty paper targets. The best recommendation is a mixture of both.
 
Excellent and to me very helpful. I appreciate your taking the time and effort to write this.

By the way, whenever I see "LEO" in one's personal profile, I pay a lot of attention to the notes of that person on subjects of this kind.
 
It's also a good idea to practice shooting your pistol while moving.

Moving BACK to wherever the heck you left your rifle. :)

Mercop--I agree with your words. But that's an awful lot of words; maybe a few pics can get us seeing it better? Just a suggestion (that I hope is helpful).
 
Thanks, I appreciate it but FWIW very little of my training that I found effective was received from the job or on company time. It was because of what I felt was missing that I began my research and created Modern Combative Systems.

I will try to do one better and get a video up.
 
mercop,
I have had thoughts like this, but never could state it as accurately.

I have been trying to "train" myself, but have basically gotten to the point where I fear that a fast draw and fireing from the hip at 7-10yds is not enough.

Any drills I could use, or maybe material I could look over?
Thanks in advance
jps
 
By yourself it is hard. If you can get at least one dedicated friend and two air soft pistols your training is really unlimited.
 
jpsimms,

[fast draw and firing from the hip at 7-10yds is not enough. /QUOTE]


Instant but smooth draw, pistol pointed at the place on the person you want to strike, extend that punch with the pistol till it is in both hands, being driven straight, like a train, right till the hands stop, and the shot breaks!

But at 6 feet, same draw, same point at where you want the bullets to hit, elbow not on the hip, a wee bit more forward with the hand/arm. So you can feel the point. Fire multiple shots, that is close!
 
I have found that "hip" shooting done from outside the silhouette of the shooter usually results in misses over the strong side shoulder.
 
Excellent, so, would a hip shot only be warranted if the BG is literally on top, or chasing you backwards from a very close range?
 
I keep promising pics, maybe this week.

If you fire with the gun beside your hip instead of in front of you are very likely to miss. The speed rock type stuff.

When most people practice hip shooting they have the toes on the same line. Seldom do we stand like this especially under stress. Typically your right foot will be to the rear a bit. This will put your round even farther off.

Over 93% of people are right handed. That means their reaction side is to the left. Practice steeping back with the left foot as the gun comes up between you and the target. As soon as the barrel is is between you and the threat start pulling the trigger. It is because of this natural reaction that so many police and bag guys get shot in the right side of their ass/legs and side of the back.
 
You might also try hitting the "high 2" position in the draw as per SouthNarc & also taught by OPS, Gomez & probably others. I have some pics that I'll try to get up in another thread on that topic.

The high 2 gives you a solid physical index, allows you to stay in a good fighting stance, as opposed to the speed rock's good falling on your back stance, & keeps your weapon away from the attacker as much as possible.

Even with a lot of practice you'll find that things like arms & cover garments get bound up pretty easily in an up close encounter. Only way to get over/around that is to deal with it, improvise & get (the gun & yourself) into the position you need.
 
Nice! Very nice!

Hope it helps you to know that I'm a big fan of what you're doing with these experience-oriented posts...I don't have anything to add.
 
mercop I agree with you 100%. Shooting and moving. I am a civilian now. if I ever have to shoot. iIt will be point shooting from the hip and moving diagonal rearward to the left if I have the gun in the right. I shoot with either hand just as effectively anyway. As for me the sights lose importance by a long shot. IMHO that's not what a pistol was designed for when it comes to the shorter distances.
 
Hip Shooting?

The G License course here in Florida for Security Officers has a "Hip Shooting"
component. The Instructor goes along the line to make sure you are in the position as illustrated in the G book!

This position has the wrist touching the hip! 48 rounds is the amount you fire in the "Test" my target has a 3" hole in the middle, very easy time line, except for the mandated "Hip" shots, 6 of them, from 2 yards, low, and in the 8 or 9 ring. A total waste of shots, yes you could practice prior to your yearly qualification, for what? The 8 and 9 zones of the B27 huge target are in anyhow, 100% no problem, but none of it is realistic.

To predict good hits at close quarters, the handgun needs to be forward of the hip, if this is the position the action caused you to be in, gun in strong hand, other paw busy, period.
 
I took hip shooting out of my departments program and replaced it with the following=

Stand withing conversation distance from a target, on the buzzer you Panic Push (two hand strike) into the target which usually results in the target being knocked over. Then you drop step with your reaction foot as you draw and put rounds on target. The target you shoot is next to the one you strike if as if it were the same target.

We used to do hip shooting after you struck the target with one hand. What BS.

Now in my private classes I use the first drill I mentioned but instead we start it on a visual que instead of audible.
 
Gawd, I can't stand paintball/airsoft/lazertag.

Dudes -- hate to tell you, it's nothing remotely like small arms combat.
 
Mercop,
Good question. I have used a lot of different training methods. Single target, multiple targets, man on man vs steel targets, airsoft, paintball (although semiauto with 10 round tubes- not a full-auto Angel with a 300 ball hopper), simunitions, you name it.
Regardless of what I use to train, somebody comes out and says that the training is worthless. What is the correct option? Do I need to go out of my way to get into armed confrontations? Is there any way to train without taking or losing a life?
 
When the adrenalin is running, you will sink to your lowest level of training. If you can't actually think, whatever has been ingrained to the subconscious level will take over. This is why it is critical to spend as much time as possible at the range.

Of those who have been in a gunfight, certainly they are humbled. This doesn't mean they wish they spent LESS time at the range. In most cases, they should have spent MORE.

I don't think anyone would say that the ONLY training one needs is range time, but I think most of us will agree that other training is useless if you haven't learned the fundamentals of good shooting and practice them regularly.
 
It is an interesting question. When I teach our Combative Pistol course I let people know up front that we are not there to teach them how to shoot but rather when to shoot and how to get their gun out and put rounds on target in difficult situations.

It has been my experience that when it comes to people who carry firearms on a daily basis and they do engage in training, the majority of it is live fire. Not enough force on force.

The idea is to learn to function under stress and I have not found any way to induce that type or stress using any type of a non human target. On the range all you have to do is concentrate putting rounds on target, during force on force you have to concentrate on everything at once like using other tools besides the gun and awareness.
 
Gawd, I can't stand paintball/airsoft/lazertag.

Dudes -- hate to tell you, it's nothing remotely like small arms combat.

If you read carefully and think about what is being said, you'll come to the same conclusion as the rest of us and that is that this thread is discussing different types of training.

While you are here why don't you tell us how you would train for small arms combat.
 
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