45 Acp For Bear?

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moooose102

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where i walk my dogs, and target shoot out in the woods, there has very recently been reports /sightings of black bear. i have not seen one as of yet.
but last night, i took my dogs to the woods to walk one, and the other i let run loose. the one i let run loose, i do so for 2 reasons, 1) she is so strong, she hurts me bad ( i have a terrible back ) and i usually spend 1-3 days & nights on the couch recouperating. 2) is because she is just over a year old, and is so full of p.&v. she needs to run to get enough exercise so we can live with her.
anyway. she normally runs out in 50-100 foot circles around me, and comes back often to find me. last night, on one of her circles, she never came back. i back tracked all the way to the truck, and she was in her kennel with the door open, shaking. something had scared the heck out of her, so it makes me wonder if it was a bear.
so back to my original question, i usually take my 45 acp with 230 g fmj bulltes in it, just in case i have some sort of trouble. last night, all i had was my 380, and a 16 gauge with #7 shot in it. neither one much of a bear stopper.
on the outside chance that i do run into this bear, am i just going to make it mad by shooting it with my 45? i wouldnt shoot it unless it was charging me. i would however shoot at a stump or tree to make noise to hopefully scare it off.
 
Most auto pistols are awful light for use on a bear. But if the 45 is all you got, better make sure you have spare magazines.

I's be thinking more along the lines of a magnum for ANY bear.
 
Well, it sure beats nothing and it sure is better than a .380! :D

Seriously, most black bears aren't all that tough and die rather easily so the 45 should do the job. The problem is that it might not have been a bear. If it was a cougar, the dog could be in trouble. Either way, I'd load the shotgun with 00 or 000 buck or make sure the .45 was with me. As for the dog being scared, sometimes a bit of fear can be really effective at making them grow up---just like some teenagers I know.
 
The problem is that it might not have been a bear. If it was a cougar, the dog could be in trouble.
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I did a quick check, and while it's not impossible that it was a cougar, it doesn't seem that likely.

In any case, from what I've read neither black bears nor cougars are all that tough, both being susceptible to .357 Magnum from a revolver with a reasonable barrel length.
 
With all due respect I’m going to focus on the dog, letting the dog run loose is a good way to get it to piss of the bear and lead it straight back to you. I would suggest a Halti collar or a Gentle Lead collar for the dog. They’re relatively cheap and they cure the runaway dog problem instantly.( and I might add, they will do so w/out damage to your back) They also keep the dog from unpleasant encounters w/ skunks, porcupines, raccoons, mountain lions and idiots that see the dog running loose and think it’s a stray and take it home (I’ve actually seen this happen on Barr Trail in Colorado Springs).

If the area the bears are in is where you target shoot, the noise of the pistol may not faze them all so if you’re going to shoot I would shoot at the bear. And last comment, I would try bear spray first.
 
The .45 acp isn't the last caliber I'd want with me to shoot a bear, but it's a long ways down the list from the top. Bear hunting is my favorite hobby, I've shot them with a lot of different stuff, but I wouldn't take a .45 acp to do the job, ever.
 
A 45 us better than trying to stop a bear by poking it in the eye when it is eating you ;p
 
Okay, the -average- black bear is roughly human sized and carries roughly human weight so any round that is effective against a human is -probably- going to be at least somewhat effective against a bear.

HOWEVER, there are some important additional points to consider.

1) Thick fur, fat, and slightly heavier bone structure do make a bear (even a small black) slightly more "armored" than the average human.

2) Psychology, a human who is shot will almost always react to the PSYCHOLOGY of being shot at least as much as the PHYSICAL damage. A bear doesn't understand "being shot" and isn't going to suddenly pause and say "Oh my, I've been shot", sit down and start crying for an ambulance, so you are going to have to KEEP shooting until the bear is actually down (probably while it's charging).

Given those facts I think I'd much prefer something a bit heavier (.357 Magnum) but I suspect good shot placement from a .45ACP (if you could manage it) would get the job done.
 
.45acp 230 ball would be OK against a small blackie, not perfect but OK. Its all shot placement, depends on where you hit it. Now a brownie is a different story, muscle mass and penetration are big considerations. Myself I'd want a large caliber rifle but often carry my super redhawk in .454 Casull....

DS
 
A recent article on the mythology of the .45 ACP invites the following:

The writer suggests that since the Cavalry was the dominant combat force, it was they who saw the .38 as ineffective. They wanted something big enough to knock down the horse, in the Cav's weapon of choice, the pistol. The Phillippine action was just coincidental to development - but if it worked for horses, so much the better for humans.

So, the .45 would be the caliber of choice to incapacitate 1300 pound four legged animals. Why not bear, too, at that rate?

Certainly runs counter to what I've been taught.

Offered strictly for your consideration, and not my idea.
 
If I simply HAD to use a .45 ACP to defend myself from black bear, I would probably want it loaded with a cast projectile weighing at least 225 grains having a very large meplat, and driven just as fast as I could get out of the 5" barrel. The Lee Precision 225 T/C is the one I have in mind, but anything that'll feed well and has a large flat point on it would be to my liking.
With the judicious use of load data that is decidedly INjudicious, it may be possible to launch these at or near 1000 f/s. The use of an especially heavy recoil spring plus a buffer might help things.
Personally, I'd feel better fending off a cantankerous black bear with a heavily loaded .45 Colt Redhawk, but I understand well the notion of using the firearms one actually owns. The old advice about "beware the man who only shoots (owns?) one gun" comes to mind. It's possible that you can compensate for insufficient power with superb shot placement. I don't like to so things like that, because targets get small and backgrounds get big when the stress is on. Practicing one's shooting on a regular basis with an eye toward hitting the bear's snout (if it's facing you on all fours) at various ranges may prove to be life-saving.
 
Okay, the -average- black bear is roughly human sized and carries roughly human weight so any round that is effective against a human is -probably- going to be at least somewhat effective against a bear.
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Right so in adding to your list...

3. But the only problem here is that bears will often attack shooters (if they understand the origin of the shot) and bears have a nasty propensity of not being stopped by the first shot(s) (and for a myriad of reasons).

4. The problem here is that if the stop is not attained quickly before the bear reaches the shooter, the violence exerted by the bear on the shooter is going to result in the need for medical attention, quite possible immediate medical attention. Even very brief attacks involving a few bites and/or slashes of the claws can produce such results.

5. While the bear may eventually die, death may come to the shooter due to shock, even from wounds that might not otherwise be lethal if medical attention was immediately available.

6. It can be hard to get proper shots on a charging bear that will incapacitate the bear. Head shots sound really good, but the head is often missed due to the fact that there is so much fur and muscle around the head that shots fail to penetrate the relatively narrow cranium, actually glance off the skull due to its curved nature, or just hit soft tissue or fur around the head. In fact, you can shoot the bear through the eye and have the round pass along side the cranium, unlike in humans.
 

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The writer suggests that since the Cavalry was the dominant combat force, it was they who saw the .38 as ineffective. They wanted something big enough to knock down the horse, in the Cav's weapon of choice, the pistol. The Phillippine action was just coincidental to development - but if it worked for horses, so much the better for humans.
Click to expand...

I've heard that story as well, that the .45 was chosen because it could effectively take down a horse.

I thought I'd add this link. It's one of the most intense hunting videos that I've ever seen and fits well with the topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw
 
You mentioned that you were keeping the 16 gauge at hand just in case as well. How about substituting some rifled slugs in place of the birdshot.
 
if you have the 16 gauge with you my first though is either a slug or buckshot before considering a handgun
 
A local cop required three rounds from a 9mm to kill a black bear.
A local Division of Wildlife officer has killed black bear with a 45 ACP.
A 45 will work, but like anything else shot placement is key.
 
Not my preferred choice

But, probably good enough for most casual encounters with black bears. I'd opt for penetration over expansion in ammo selection though. A .357 with heavier bullets would be better.
 
go with the spray

I just got back from 7 days in the Wyoming Rockies about Grand Teton NP, and the folks there (guides as well as park ranger types) say that a good bear spray IN A LARGE ENOUGH CONTAINER is much more likely to stop a bear attack than even a heavy handgun.

According to them, something like 80% of bear confrontations are resolved without injury to the human if they use a good bear spray, as opposed to a MUCH lower number where the human relies on a pistol, no matter the caliber. In fact, all of the hunters in camp were told that bear spray was mandatory equipment outside of camp.

One nice thing they pointed out - the sprays are good out to 10 to 12 yards, and your aim doesn't have to be quite as good as with a pistol, because at that range they create not just a stream, but a lingering cloud of irritant that the bear will have to pass through to get to you, giving you more protection than a bullet that either hits or misses and then is gone.

Now, these were grizzly bears, not blackies, that we were facing, and therefore tougher to kill with a pistol round, but I'd look at it the other way - if such a spray will stop a grizzly 80% of the time, it ought to be good for black bears, too.

Just my $.02.
 
A revolver is more appropriate for a bear encounter. If you were actually attacked by a bear you would/should be pressing the muzzle of your handgun against the animal and depressing the trigger until the gun is empty. A semi-auto is not suited for such work. Get a magnum caliber.
 
Same question was asked couple years ago in a magazine…the author mentioned to ensure the gun was fully loaded (8+1)…save the last shot for yourself…your death would be more pleasant. I’m of the belief to “use enough gun” and the 45 ain’t it. Your talking about an animal…how many times have you seen or heard of deer being shot with .308’s and bigger and still run off. As someone already mentioned he might die but not until he does some damage. I walk my lab in a similar environment as you and carry a S&W 329 with some VERY hot hand loads…you never know.
 
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