War PP bought at unethical shop

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Babbalanja

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I went into a pawn shop and saw a nice Walther PP, a gun I've wanted for a long time. It was $450 and I told the guy I'd come in the next day to possibly buy it. Next day I showed up and the price was suddently $595! I tried reasoning with him, appealing to his sense of fairness, all in vain. He said, "it's worth more than I was askin" and that it was "my perogative" to change the price. To my credit I walked out without making a scene. To my shame I came back a week later and bought the gun. It is a Crown over N .32 PP dating to late 1939 or early 1940, with one magazine. It has to be in 98% condition and a look inside would suggest it has never been fired. I am pleased with it but still bothered by the behavior of the proprietor. At the risk of making a sweeping generalization, a significant number of used gun sellers seem brutish and uneducated. Well, maybe that is a bit harsh as the guy with whom I transacted did use an uncommon 4-syllable word. But I could not in good conscience treat a customer like that and would have honored the original price. But, that is all in the past and I should move on.
 
Welcome to THR. . . . You have seen what demand does to supply in gun transactions. I guess if you had bought it when you first saw it, you would have paid $450. The price is what the seller says it is at the time of the sale. I am currently bidding on a number of items on Gunbroker and Ebay. What's the difference?
 
Most businesses are trying to make a profit...

Which does not condone unethical behavior, by the way.

Did you strike a deal with the man on the first day? Or did you merely express an interest in coming back later? Did you make a deposit and agree to a sale?

I am sorry for your loss, so to speak. On the other hand, you seem to feel as if the higher price was in fact justified; you wanted the gun more than you wanted to keep the $595, right?

Put the shoe on the other foot: if he offered that gun for $150, would you buy it quickly at that price, or would you tell him he was very under priced?

I've found pawn shops have some very good deals and some real dogs. One must keep looking and always be ready to move; that is, have money in one's pocket ready to buy that deal one just discovered. This also applies to jewelry, watches and tools.

- Sad note - The despicable socialist Democrat thugs who run PDSR California have pretty much put the pawnshops out of the gun business. In fact, all used handgun sales are pretty much 'consignment' sales these days. Be careful who you elect to your legislature.
 
Yea, the shop owner is a ******' bag...

While you lost the deal, you didn't get hurt either; late war production PPs in 32 caliber go for about $600 on gun broker, and some of them don't have as good of a finish as yours does.

I know what your saying though: used gun sellers are, more often than not, dishonest.
 
I told the guy I'd come in the next day to possibly buy it.
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Or possibly not.

If you'd put money down on the gun, and THEN he raises the price the next day, I think he's a bum--but he can still do it 'cause it's not your gun yet (just has to return your deposit if you balk). Unless you have "verbal contract" laws in your state, and witnesses, and...

The way it is, he just changed his mind. As you could have. Not seeing the problem of ethics. (Of course, it also ethical for you to decide never to do business there again. Your call.)

Sucks, but c'est la vie.

used gun sellers are, more often than not, dishonest.
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Just the opposite of my experience.
 
The good news is that if the Walther is, in fact, in the condition that you describe, then it was fairly priced at $595 and would have been a steal at $450. It might have been tempting to walk away from the deal, but you would have had a hard time, indeed, finding a gun in similar condition that was priced in that same ballpark ... and to find one at $450 would have been a real stroke of luck.

The bottom line is that you did all right. I wouldn't give it another thought, though I would sure avoid that shop in the future.
 
photo of my PP

Thought I would throw in a photo of the subject PP. I honestly did not mean for any pornographic innuendo.

Nice replies. Technically there was no deal in writing or verbally. No legal obligation to either party, but there was certainly an understanding that I would likely come back to buy it the next day and the ham-fisted philistine knew that. $150 was likely not going to cause him to lose his business; treating a customer like will cause him to lose business. I won't patronize his place again and advise my contacts to avoid him. So, I'm not crying over this and as was pointed out, I felt the $595 was still worth it. I simply expect a higher morality between men is all.
 

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there was certainly an understanding that I would likely come back to buy it the next day
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Not trying to sound like a jerk, but do you know how many people have an "understanding" with shop owners that they'll "likely be back to buy it tomorrow" and never show up?

It's a classic move for a person to go look at their local shops to guage prices, and then buy elsewhere. The shop owner's gotta make a living too, ya know. Let's say you tell him "yeah, I'll probably be back tomorrow to pick it up" and he holds it for you. Then a guy comes in, sees it and says "I'll be back tomorrow with cash for that little gem. Guaranteed." Who's going to get first bite?

Like I said, sorry the guy raised the price on you - but I don't see how that makes him dishonest or a scumbag. You could have bought the pistol that day, or chosen to leave it alone once you found out he raised the price. By caving in and buying, you signalled him that his practices are acceptable to you - that's your fault.
 
Hmmmmm..............You expect a higher morality when greed is destroying our country. IMHO you should have bought it the day you found it. Unless he said he would hold it for the listed price...........Sorry........That's life.
 
Exactly! If there had been a deposit paid, and then the shop owner had raised the price, then yeah - he's running a scam. But if someone tells me that they might be back, and I choose to raise the price in the meantime, well, we had no agreement. "Likely" to buy does not equal a contract, no matter how "likely" the potential buyer was to actually buy the item. If the potential buyer doesn't like the new asking price, they're free to pass.
 
I don't think their behavior was unethical. It wasn't very nice, but it wasn't unethical. The shops that have done that to me don't get my business again. They're gougers. OTOH the folks at shops I frequent do just the opposite. For example at local Great Northern Guns I once found a minty fresh M28/30 marked as an M39. It's an easy mistake to make for someone not experienced with Mosins. I told them, and they let me take it at the $175 instead of jacking it on me. They get my business.

BTW, I used to have a post-war French made PP that I dearly loved. Wish I still had it, it was the most comfortable CCW piece I ever had. And I could rapid fire that pup. There's almost no recoil.
 
It's sucks but I'm not surprised being it's a pawn shop. The guy probably gave $250 for it.
 
$150 was likely not going to cause him to lose his business; treating a customer like will cause him to lose business. I won't patronize his place again and advise my contacts to avoid him. So, I'm not crying over this and as was pointed out, I felt the $595 was still worth it. I simply expect a higher morality between men is all.
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All your wailing and gnashing of teeth aside, you condoned and validated his behavior by paying his price.

You sure taught him a lesson, didn't you? Guess he won't do that again.

Spare me. :rolleyes:
 
I'm on the dealer's side. He can set any price he wants while it's being offered for sale. If you wanted it at $450 you should have bought it. Or at least put a deposit on it to hold it at that price.

When I am at a gun show, and I pick up something I may want to buy, it stays in my hand until I decide to pass. I once set the gun down while negotiating with the dealer and someone behind me reached around and grabbed it saying "I'll pay the asking price." My stupidity. He could have spoken up while I held it, and I would have to match that offer or walk away, but he waited until I put it down to act. I can't blame him or the dealer.

It's a game. Learn the rules before you play.
 
Although I can see both sides you should not have tipped your hand on your intentions without a deposit on the piece.

However, it looks like a great gun! Nice!
 
Agree with blackbeard.

I also find the following statements highly inconsistent to the point of being bizarre...

treating a customer like will cause him to lose business. I won't patronize his place again and advise my contacts to avoid him. So, I'm not crying over this and as was pointed out, I felt the $595 was still worth it. I simply expect a higher morality between men is all.
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I mean, in essence, he was undercharging to begin with. Even if he was charging normal price, that will change slowly over time - even you can't deny that. So he changed his mind and decided to charge closer to the market price, which was, indeed, his "perogative." (LOL) Whether the price changes quickly or slowly it's the same result, and there isn't anything immoral about it.

If he went on gunbroker and saw all PPs were suddenly going for $1000 and he charged $970 would that be immoral? What if you walked out the door and someone offered you one for $200? Would you call it immoral? I just don't get what all the fuss is for. I also don't get how you can really say anything, at all, to your friends about not buying from him.

:confused:
 
I'm on the dealer's side. He can set any price he wants while it's being offered for sale. If you wanted it at $450 you should have bought it. Or at least put a deposit on it to hold it at that price.
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I agree.

What unethical behavior by the pawn shop owner? He NEVER said that he would sell you the gun for $450 tomorrow. His price tag said that he would sell you the gun for $450 as long as that tag was on the gun.

He realized his mistake, he corrected his mistake, SO WHAT? You did not ask, nor receive any promise from him whatsoever, it was his business to do with whatever he wanted with that gun, he didn't owe you a darn thing because you offered him nothing to maintain the current sale price of the gun such as a written order that he agreed to or a deposit.

I'd come in the next day to possibly buy it.
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Hell, you didn't even promise to buy it, why would he promise to do anything in return.
 
You may be familiar with the saying "Money talks, Bull***** walks", pawnshop owners pretty much live by this adage. If you wanted the gun for $450 you should've bought it when you first saw it.
 
You may be familiar with the saying "Money talks, Bull***** walks", pawnshop owners pretty much live by this adage. If you wanted the gun for $450 you should've bought it when you first saw it.
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+1

The seller may have done some research after you left, and felt that he had underpriced the gun to begin with.

If you had gone home and decided that the gun was overpriced, should the pawn shop owner have an expectation you would return and buy it anyway?

You left with the right to "think about it"...... the pawn shop owner had the same right....
 
The pawn shop owner probably put the gun on display the day you came in. When he saw that it attracted immediate attention he realized it was underpriced.
 
I had a similar situation at GM. They had a used XD9SC fo;r $299. I had no cash. I left and went to Wally World (about) 100 yds away to get some groceries. I went back to GM about 30mins. later to ask them to hold it for me overnight until I brought some "gun money" up to lay it away. Guess what? It had gone up in price to $369.
What can you do? It's like buying gasoline or anything else. Once they buy it, it's theirs to raise or lower the price on until it sells.
 
76shuvlinoff is right. You should have said something like, "It's pretty, but it's in that pipsqueaky useless 380 cartridge. Hmmm.... I might offer $400 for it. Well, wait a minute.... nahh, I'd like something in the more powerful 9mm Luger. Oh, and look, see this right here, this scratch here? What else ya got?"

Then you run to the bank and run right back with green dollars in your pocket.

After you showed an interest, he probably just did some research on prices on that arm and found out its more probable worth, changed the price, and probably didn't really expect to see you again anyhow. I would not fault the shop owner without hiring a mind reader, first.

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance or stupidity.
 
IANAL, but here's how a contract is formed: OFFER - ACCEPTANCE - CONSIDERATION.

The dealer offers to sell the gun for $450. You accept his offer. You pay him a deposit on the price, and that satisfies the third requirement for a contract -- consideration. He is now bound to give you the gun when you pay the balance of the agreed-to price.

If instead of putting down a deposit, you say, "I accept your offer and I'll buy it tomorrow," there is no consideration given and therefore no contract. He can withdraw his offer at any time.

Lawyers on the forum, correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. Verbal contracts are every bit as binding as paper ones, though they're more difficult to prove.
 
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I really can't fault the show owner for this

You are just upset that you didn't pull one over on him.

Who's unethical? The guy who sells his wares for market price or the guy who knew the price was too small and tried to buy it anyway?
 
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