Physical problem = No gun for some

Wow, I be furious too. Sorry that happened to you.

I'd write a letter to the State Attorney General charging the owner with discrimination and copy it to the local Better Business Bureau, Chamber of Commerce and village.

Good luck!

handloader, I know how you feel when it comes to having to live with a medical disability. I have a greater than 90% nerve deafness in both ears. Everyone second guesses your physical and mental faculties and that gets really tiresome very quickly. IMHO, do get your legal advice but I would take the highroad and take my business elsewhere.
In the future, having a couple a character referrences and doctors' notes probably wouldn't hurt you. I know, it alot hassle and effort but it can save you alot of grief. People are always challenging my ability to handle firearms when they find out I'm hard of hearing. I usually just point out to them that I have a drivers license, hunters safety certificate and several range safety cards. I stopped getting mad a long time ago but I don't give in to anybody who just happens to think they know what's best for me. As one poster said before, most people are just uncomfortable with the thought of how frail we as human beings really are. Most usually seek to distance themselves from the actual reality of life by turning on those less fortunate than themselves.
The true irony is that we are growing older with each day and our bodies will fail us in some form or another. Don't give up your passions just because of one individual.
Best of luck

Handloader,

I think that you have a strong case to pursue, considering the public accommodation provisions in the Americans with Disabilities Act. I am so sorry that you were treated this way and hope that you can teach this bonehead a lesson about how the disabled with a medical condition ought to be treated.

Your physical appearance and medical condition has nothing to do with your ability to safely own a firearm.

Oh, and for those who suggest that the owner can "refuse to serve anyone"? He can't if he discriminates against a class of people that are protected by law. Like the differently able. Is there an advocacy group for disabled folks in Western Kentucky? In the Denver area the Atlantis Community does wonders http://www.atlantiscommunity.net/

You may want to email them and see if they know of a corresponding group near you. IMHO you are as entitled to buy a gun as any able bodied citizen.

Good Luck and God bless.

Oh, and for those who suggest that the owner can "refuse to serve anyone"?

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Yes, dealers can and do if they think there is something not quite right about the sale or the purchaser. There's too much liability to do otherwise, up to and including loss of license and jail time.

sue the pants off the @#$^%#@#%&^*! who does he think he is! freaking jerk! he was afraid of a law suit, so give him one!

sue the pants off the @#$^%#@#%&^*! who does he think he is! freaking jerk! he was afraid of a law suit, so give him one!

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Hopefully this was a joke...

What's wrong with taking your business elsewhere?

The guy may be a jackass, but do we really want so much control in our lives that a man can be compelled to sell to people when he doesn't want to? Is that freedom or liberty?

And before anyone starts down that old race road, remember that the culture these days generally frowns upon race discrimination. A shopowner known for refusing service to blacks is likely to lose even more business due to public pressure and backlash. That is the appropriate response, not lawsuits or being compelled by the gubbamint. If a black guy is refused service in a store because he’s black, he then can and should expose the shopowner for what he is. Spread the word. THAT’S American. Not this nanny state, sue-happy garbage that some so called freedom lovers around here seem to be hitching their wagon to.

Freedom is risky and painful. People’s feelings will get hurt. I’d rather have it that way than the alternative.

But that's just me.

i'm sorry to hear about this unfortunate ordeal...that sucks.
might i suggest getting an official letter from your doctor(s) explaining that due to your medical condition, you suffer shaking/tremors, but it in no way is indicative of being mentally unstable. perhaps someone at another shop would be a little more understanding, and allow you to purchase should your nics check come back ok.
as for the guy who gave you crap?? i would walk in calmly, hand him the letter from your doctor and explain to him that due to his behavior, you will not be spending any of your money at his store. and let him know that you will be sending all of your friends/aquaintences/etc. to ________________ gun shop where they treated you with dignity and respect.

good luck whatever path you take.

As a disabled person myself I know how frustrating things like this can be at times. I am confined to a wheelchair due to a birth defect, but it only affects my legs and not my upper body, so no one has ever questioned my ability to shoot a handgun. I am even seriously considering getting my CCW license, but wondering if I would be frowned upon for that? Anyway I would just take my business elsewhere, because essentially they do have the right to refuse to sell to anyone they think might be unsafe..

Bubbles
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Oh, and for those who suggest that the owner can "refuse to serve anyone"?
Yes, dealers can and do if they think there is something not quite right about the sale or the purchaser. There's too much liability to do otherwise, up to and including loss of license and jail time.

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The issue here is the dealer's perception of "not quite right". RobNDenver had it correct when he said that the dealer can't refuse to sell to people because of a disability that has nothing to do with firearm safety.

The dealer we are discussing took the OP's PHYSICAL appearance to infer that he also had a MENTAL problem. That would probably not stand up to legal scrutiny.

I would just take my business elsewhere and spread the word about how I was treated.

Bob

burning bridges may prove a bad strategy.
big sign in the window of a local store here reads--"we reserve the right to refuse a sale to anyone." their call.

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A huge thing in the firearms world, an FFL holder must have the ability to refuse a sale to someone if they feel, rightly or wrongly, that the person may be a danger to themselves or others. The shopowner sounds like an inflamed hemroid (SP?) but I still think your best bet would be to bring in some documentation of your condition and a summary of the symptoms, so that you can hopefully have a mutual apology with the owner and show that you are not a liar and that your condition is not an impairment of your ability to handle firearms safely, and not a mental condition at all.

Being treated that way must be an incredibly painful dose of salt on the difficulties your condition already gives you, but I think that it would really do you good to go in and get things sorted out with the owner. He might even give you a nice discount for being such a jackass the first time around, even though he has every right to deny a sale to anyone he chooses to.

The issue here is the dealer's perception of "not quite right". RobNDenver had it correct when he said that the dealer can't refuse to sell to people because of a disability that has nothing to do with firearm safety.

The dealer we are discussing took the OP's PHYSICAL appearance to infer that he also had a MENTAL problem. That would probably not stand up to legal scrutiny.
I would just take my business elsewhere and spread the word about how I was treated.

Bob

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The FFL holder is not a doctor, so I doubt he would legally be expected to be able to determine someones capabilities just from a conversation.

The FFL holder is not a doctor, so I doubt he would legally be expected to be able to determine someones capabilities just from a conversation

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Is that not exactly what he did when he refused to sell?

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The FFL holder is not a doctor, so I doubt he would legally be expected to be able to determine someones capabilities just from a conversation

Is that not exactly what he did when he refused to sell?

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I think being held liable for an incident resulting from selling to someone mentally incompetent to own a firearm is a more realistic description of his legal expectations than being held responsible for determining what someone's exact issue is. I don't think he handled himself very well at all, at the very least he was incourteous and exceedingly rude to Handloader, but at the same time FFL holders have a large set of expectations placed on them by the BATFE and it isn't unreasonable for one to be overly cautious. I think getting it straightened out with the same FFL might turn out to be a rewarding experience for Handloader, at the very least he would walk away from the situation the bigger man, and at best he might make a longterm friend out of the guy. If the dude is really just an unbearable ass than that outcome probably won't happen. I don't know, it's Handloaders life, hopefully whatever course of action he takes he will let us know and let us know how it works out. I think if that FFL has a gun that he really wants and has a good price on it, than bringing in some documentation to straighten the fellow out and show him how wrong he was to treat Handloader like that would get Handloader the gun he wants, and maybe get him some free transfers for the insult and trouble the FFL subjected him to. If I were an FFL in that position, I would certainly want to make it right with the customer.

If the dealer does sell under these circumstances and something bad happens then someone could sue and say its obvious from watching that this person shouldnt be shooting. Dealer could argue im not a doctor and not qualified to make that judgement.

On the flip side if he refuses to sell then someone could sue and use the "he's not a doctor" excuse as grounds that he's not qualified to make that kind of judgement and refuse a sell.

Damned if you do.Damned if you dont.

If the dealer does sell under these circumstances and something bad happens then someone could sue and say its obvious from watching that this person shouldnt be shooting. Dealer could argue im not a doctor and not qualified to make that judgement.

On the flip side if he refuses to sell then someone could sue and use the "he's not a doctor" excuse as grounds that he's not qualified to make that kind of judgement and refuse a sell.

Damned if you do.Damned if you dont.

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And the BATFE would hold his feet to the fire just as hard as if he had knowingly sold to a straw purchaser, because that is what they do. Depending on location the local court system might decide to have a field day with him as well. I just don't think a lawsuit would be the best approach in this case.

Yes I know that it would be easier to bring in documentation to show I have no mental propblems. But last time I checked the second admendment was for everyone not just the "SELECT" few. Says DC. VS. HELLAR. I feel it is dicrimination due to the fact that if I had been "REGULAR" I would now have that handgun. But instead I do not have the handgun. So I believe we call it discrimation. Also why am I the only one who has to bring papers saying I am sain or safe enougth to own a gun. Be doing this for the past 30 years no accidents. I have had the nerve damage since I was 8 years old and never once was I denied the right to a gun. Until now. So I believe that I have a right to be mad about not being able to buy a gun due to my physical problem.

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You certainly do have the right to be upset.

Equally valid is the storeowner's right to tell you no.

Solution? Find another gun store. Expose this guy for the jerk that he is. Be creative.

Let's not expand government OR an already litigious society. There's enough frivolous lawsuits as it is, and IMNSHO a lawsuit here would be frivolous.

Discrimination? Private citizens SHOULD have the right to discriminate. Does that make it right? No. But like I said before, freedom and liberty can be painful at times. I think a business should be able to say they won't sell to blacks, gays, whites, dwarfs, whatever. Of course, if they are so stupid as to do that, public opinion and word of mouth ought to right that ship.

Sure the guy can refuse a sale but substitute "crazy" or what ever the shop owner used with the minority/skin color of your choice and see how it plays out. Same thing.

I owned a gun store, not a sporting goods store, a gun store for over fifteen years from the late seventies to the mid eighties. If you came in my store and didn't have complete control over your physical body, including your extremities, I would politely tell you "NO" you can't handle my firearms, let alone try to purchase one. I now work as a senior range officer at local shoots and if a shooter approaches the line with visible tremors and shakes I won't let him un-case a handgun, let alone load and fire one. Sorry. I fly private aircraft and if I can't pass a physical I lose my license. To fly while "handicapped" with a physical problem is to endanger myself and those around me. I don't blame the store owner and doubt you could prevail in any "discrimination" suit. Use your head for a moment and lay aside your personal feelings. If you can't keep a loaded pistol pointed in a safe direction due to a handicap, why would you even want to posses one? Yes, you have rights but like many others you forget that those come with responsibilities. Be responsible and think seriously about this experience. I'm sorry you have a nervous disorder. I'm not sorry you were denied the "right" to force a store owner to sell you a firearm.

If you can't keep a loaded pistol pointed in a safe direction due to a handicap, why would you even want to posses one?

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Where did that come from? You are sounding as discriminatory as the gun store owner! Who said the OP was unsafe?

And HANDLOADER, you are right, you should not have to "show your papers" to anyone to prove anything.

Mpmarty, you are leaving yourself WIDE OPEN for a lawsuit under Disabilities laws. You are discriminating against someone based off of a physical disability.

When did THR go Lib?

I'd always thought that Gun Owners were tolerant of others and WANTED people to get into their sport. Seems I was wrong. As well, I thought that these were Second Amendment supporters, not "reasonable restrictions" enforcers.

Lawsuit under the ADA

Please refer back to my reference to flying a private aircraft. If I suffer a heart attack or cva (stroke) while flying over your family what do you think happens? The FAA and their medical examiners have a duty to stop me from doing that to your family. As a firearms dealer or range officer I also have a duty to avoid obvious threats to the general public caused by my arming someone who lacks the ability to properly control that weapon.

mpmarty sir, with all do respect I agree with Handloader. Just because someone has a physical problem doesn't make him a criminal. It doesn't forbid his/her right to protect himself or herself from harm. There are medications to help control Cardio vasacular Accident, Strokes and heartattacks. I am sorry you feel the way you do.