Beware: Accidentally Carrying Through Random Border Patrol Checkpoints in Western WA

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That would be a moron CCW person who continues to engage the cop AFTER the cop has released him.
It certainly would be unnecessary. However it would be the law, and if someone was not aware they were within park boundaries and were just doing what was required by law they could be unaware they were signing up for arrest.

Laughable. Is that you how you think police act and talk? Like robots?
It was a simplification.
However yes that is often exactly how they act once a boundary has been crossed. When they realize someone commited a crime and is currently armed that is often such a boundary.
Taking someone into custody who is currently armed or potentialy getting into an argument with someone who is armed is risky. Polite mannerisms go away and they are very formal.
I live in sue happy CA, and many of the officers in urban areas act so formal and by the book when they come into official contact with people that they seem very much like robots.
When they casualy mix with the public or take reports they can be a little more social.
Every single word and action they take during a stop that could result in use of force (spray, taser, firearm etc) will be heavily scrutinized in court (recorded by dash cam) if they are sued.
They want to stay safe from both harm and lawsuits, and often sound like a pre-recorded message.

I don't know how they are for you in Michigan.
 
It certainly would be unnecessary. However it would be the law, and if someone was not aware they were within park boundaries and were just doing what was required by law they could be unaware they were signing up for arrest.

No, it would not be law. If the officer has dismissed you...he has dismissed you. You are under no obligation to speak to him further.
 
I get stopped by the Border Patrol at the checkpoint between Gila Bend and Ajo, Arizona quite often. The furthest they've ever gone with a search is to ask if they can see inside the trunk, to which I always say "sure." They don't ask nothin' 'bout no firearms and I don't mention any.
 
What a stupid way to turn something simple into a belligerence-fest

yea, stop being belligerant, and when they demand you register your guns, don't be belligerant, just nicely tell them the serial number, make, and model of all firearms.

When they demand a firearms owner I.D. card, don't be belligerant, simply co-operate.

When they demand you only buy 1 firearm per month, be a nice guy, don't complain, just go along, but your guns 31 days apart.

When they demand you only own revolvers, don't be a wrench in the gears, simply turn over your semiautos.

If we don't stand up for our rights, they will ALL be gone.
 
Re the Border Patrol only having authority at border crossings.

When I was living in southern Idaho during the mid 1980s you would often see BP (in light green 4x4s?) stopping by farms checking out the workers to see if they were legal or not.
 
I have heard that one of the reasons they have Border Patol checkpoints in Western WA and also north of Yakima and the Tri-Cities is because it is a major drug smuggling corridor for illegal immigrants.
 
"Good afternoon. What's your citizenship?"

"Texas"

"Have a good one"

:D Solves all problems. Only Texans think of their state as a country. (humor intended, please don't get upset)

We were doing a training exercise down outside of Yuma at the base there, and we were about 5 miles from the border. I was part of the detail tasked out for Ammo Supply Point Security(10 guys) and we had border patrol stop by one day. Here we all are, sitting around in the middle of the desert, on a military base, with tens of thousands of rounds of Ammo, 10 Rifles, wearing Cammies, and he asked our citizenship. I couldn't help but laugh. Because, even assuming we WERE illegals, and had been dumb enough to sneak onto a military base in the US, and Fortunate enough to steal cammies, What is 1 border patrol agent going to do against the 10 of us calmly sitting around with our rifles? Other than donate HIS uniform and vehicle to our cause.

Border Patrol Checkpoints are a necessary inconvenience. I'm willing to sacrifice some of my time when I run into them to help keep illegal immigrants out of the country. No need to be a jerk to them if they're just doing their job. However, if they're being rude, well I don't have much reason to be polite any more.
 
I believe and IANAL but FOPA should trump this.

You are going from place of legal carry TO a place of legal carry, without interruption and following the laws of the state or location. Also there is no intent to break a law

I don't think so, not if you were carrying it on your person or loaded in the vehicle...FOPA requires that the firearm be unloaded and secured while in transport.
 
Re the Border Patrol only having authority at border crossings.

When I was living in southern Idaho during the mid 1980s you would often see BP (in light green 4x4s?) stopping by farms checking out the workers to see if they were legal or not.

Bear in mind, there is regular law enforcement authority, where you have your constitutional rights that greatly restrict what they can do to you, and then there is point-of-entry authority where, AFAIK, most or all of your constitutional rights don't exist.

Within the US I imagine that border patrol has normal LE authority, like various other federal agencies. But you have many rights in such cases, like refusing searches, and even refusing to answer most questions.

In the youtube video posted, if the guy had done that at a point of entry he wouldn't have been getting into the US that day.
 
" be aware that the Border Patrol and Immigration / Customs have a temporary checkpoint...As with all check-points of this type, you may or may not be searched, however, you will likely be stopped, and questioned."

Absolute insanity.
Welcome to the Police State. Zeig Heil!
 
Hwy 20 looks to be, what, approximately 15 to 20 miles from the border in places? With a trans-border lake intersecting it? Is that a Canadian park or two on the other side of the border> Folks, that's a border nexus.
 
Absolute insanity.
Welcome to the Police State. Zeig Heil!

To compare the border patrol location in the original video to the brutal and unyielding authority of the Nazi fascists not only demonstrates paranoia and a complete lack of understanding of the utter brutality of the fascist state, but it cheapens the true sense of horror that Nazism should convey.

The German is "sieg heil", by the way. It means "victory hail"

Bottom line: The Border Patrol agent shown in the video is more like an ineffective doe-eyed deer-in-headlights that is utterly baffled with regard to what to do, than a brutal Nazi police officer possessing limitless power and the hardened heart to use it.

Disliking a BP checkpoint inside the US is understandable. Let's just be reasonable about it.
 
+1. Not to mention this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others invented later.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful (this is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception").[6]

Godwin's Law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. It does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda, or other mainstays of the Nazi regime.[citation needed] Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, because although mentioning and trivializing Nazism in an online discussion, this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.
 
To add:

Do you also raise so much hell when an illegal immigrant commits a felony in the US? Don't we howl and wail that they shouldn't have been here in the first place, and somebody ought to have done something to catch and deport them? Well, somebody apparently is. 'Course, we don't like that either, do we?
 
The problem many, including myself, have is that we do very little to stop them at the border, where they should be stopped, and where everyone expects to be questioned, searched, etc. Then we try to catch them within the borders by stopping law-abiding Americans for no cause.
 
I believe and IANAL but FOPA should trump this.

You are going from place of legal carry TO a place of legal carry, without interruption and following the laws of the state or location. Also there is no intent to break a law
You are mistaken. FOPA does not apply to this situation.

Under FOPA, if you are legal to possess your gun at the start of the trip, and you are legal to possess it at the end, you are not subject to state prohibitions along the way, provided you are just passing through, and that the gun is unloaded and not immediately accessible to you (in your trunk or in a locked case).

In this instance, the original post concerns federal laws, not state laws. FOPA overrides state laws, not federal, so FOPA does not apply. Second, the original post concerns CCW. FOPA requires that the gun not be accessible to the driver. Carrying a loaded, concealed gun is not protected by FOPA.
 
I lived south of a inland border checkpoint for years north of San Diego and may have driven through it hundreds of times. I don't recall ever being spoken to let alone searched by the border patrol. I suspect this is a non-issue.
 
mgregg85 said:
Such a stupid rule. It should not cover major roadways that simply travel through the park.

It should not apply to the INTERIOR of your vehicle.

Well, ideally, there should be NO restrictions on where somebody in legal possession of a firearm can carry, but that's not going to happen.

Fighting to get the inside of your car exempt from external legal regulations, within reason, is possible.
 
Sergeant Sabre said:
To compare the border patrol location in the original video to the brutal and unyielding authority of the Nazi fascists not only demonstrates paranoia and a complete lack of understanding of the utter brutality of the fascist state, but it cheapens the true sense of horror that Nazism should convey.

The German is "sieg heil", by the way. It means "victory hail"

Bottom line: The Border Patrol agent shown in the video is more like an ineffective doe-eyed deer-in-headlights that is utterly baffled with regard to what to do, than a brutal Nazi police officer possessing limitless power and the hardened heart to use it.

Disliking a BP checkpoint inside the US is understandable. Let's just be reasonable about it.

Well-written, and I whole-heartedly concur.
 
This quote from the FBI Bulletin is correct:
A true border search can be made without probable cause, without a warrant, and, indeed, without any articulable suspicion at all.

THEY can do whatever they want in a true "border search."

YOU, on the other hand, should continue to follow the "GOLDEN RULE."

Say "Officer, while I will not resist your claim of authority, I DO NOT CONSENT to any search of my person, property, or vehicle." After THEY ask for them, give the officer the keys (so they don't wreck your car for fun) and otherwise KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

Watch them, remember what they are doing to law-abiding you, and don't volunteer information or otherwise assist (which some magistrate might later decide constitutes a waiver of your rights).
 
Just an FYI, the BP has the same authority within 75 miles of a border as they do at the border.

This is becoming a big issue down here in San Diego, especially with all the motorhomes coming back from the desert (Glamis dunes) getting pulled over into secondary at the I8 immigration check. One guy on the glamisdunes.com board said he waited an hour and a half to get through.

I went through on a Friday afternoon coming back from Lake Havasu (motorhome with boat in tow); we spent a half hour in line and got pulled into secondary.

Regards,

Mark
 
Just an FYI, the BP has the same authority within 75 miles of a border as they do at the border.

Huh? I don't think the Border Patrol can conduct a limitless search without a warrant of a vehicle that is not involved in entering the US, like they can at the border. After all, the exception to the search warrant rule that allows the Border Patrol to operate irrespective of 4th Amendment protections is called the border exception.

If so, wow, I'm shocked...
 
The CBP/BP has a presence in 49 states, iirc. ICE is in all 50. Cross-designated personnel? Practically everywhere.

Their authorities are broad, depending on the circumstances. There are important differences between why, where, and how they conduct operations. Important because the courts have made them so. This forum, for better or worse, isn't designed to hash out the intricacies.

The threads concerns: the checkpoint existance and how it pertains to the lawful carrying of a concealed weapon. The answers are: Such checkpoints exist under color of law and they are not concerned with the lawful carrying of a concealed weapon.

Change a fact or two, such as an adverse court decision or the lawfulness of the carrying, and the answers may change.

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"If so, wow, I'm shocked..."

There is no cause for shock. CBP, ICE, and various cross-designated personnel require reasonable suspicion to detain, and probable cause to search absent an established 4A exception.

Those exceptions are not as clear cut as many would prefer, probably even the afore mentioned enforcers.

---

Best,
Erik
 
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