Magnumitis and hunters.

I use a 30-06 its the only center fire rifle I own. I figured I would get the most versatile caliber I could since it may be the only one I own for a while and may get a chance to go out west.

Have several magnum rifles. One weighs just over 6.5 pounds and has a lightened Thai Mauser action. It is chambered for the .375 Improved Alaskan. Those magnum rifles sit in the safe because they are not needed to kill deer or hogs. They also use huge quantities of powder and it is expensive to re-load for them. One of these years i will go moose hunting and that .375Improved Alaskan is coming with me.


Last deer season i took a shot at a big doe with my Remington model 700 at a lasered distance of just over 400 yards. She fell DRT. That was the first shot over 300 yards that i have taken in decades. Everything was just right: Good rest, no wind, good light and she was standing broadside.

Sunray hit the hail on the head.

Hey There;
Sunray has it. While we do not always agree, Here we do. I am a nut that studies this kind of crap. You guys are right on. The New Breed of GUN and Hunting magazines are mostly to blame here. I have even come to the point that I can not stand to watch a deer or any kind of Hunting video. If one can not do it the way they do in the Video "we are stupid " and will never be up to par. Fact is most of us can not afford to hunt where those guys hunt. And we do not have companies paying the bill for us.

Gun writers seem to push the new magnums a lot. And use those cute little numbers hoping that the average Joe will not know any better and go out and buy one of these "Can't do it any other way " guns.
Anyone that is over 40 something knows that the 30-30 win. has killed a lot of deer. The .243 also. And many others. But modern day gun writers that need to keep their jobs tend to push the New Magnums hard.
A framing hammer handles the nails just fine. But you would need a much bigger hammer for pounding in Rail road spikes. Most of us are in need of framing hammers. The normal caliber rifles we have had for years all do the job and do it very well. The ammo cost is still somewhat reasonable. The cost of the new Magnums and their ammo is a little on the steap side. And 95% of the time not required to get the job done.
I have nothing against any Magnum. They are here for a reason. But , I too, have seen many hunters use a .300 win mag sitting in a stand watching a bait pile at 40 yards to kills some small UP (MI) deer.
I do some custom tuning and reloading. The rifles in question here are .300 Win. mags. 2 of these guys have used them for years and flat out love the power and the accuracy of the two guns that I am refering to. Last year one of them on a western hunt killed his deer at 380 yards with 1 shot drop and 100 yards 1 shot drop. He has always been amazed at the pwoer of that .300 win. But this year I finally told him the deal. I have always loaded the 165 grain Hornady A-Max for him. at 2850 FPS. He was shocked to learn of this but did not want to change a thing. Magnum ??? Not.. He claims he has never had a problem with those loads and has killed every deer he ever pulled the trigger on. The other guy was My youngest brother and the exact same thing was done with his rifle and he also loved it. In Fact they were reaally useing a warm .308 win. from a .300 win mag round.

High-5 to Ya, Wildfire !

Thank You.

Hey:
Of all people here I knew you would agree. we have for the most part always been on the same page.

Great story Wildfire, you had them thinking they were carrying the Hammers Of Thor and you actually gave them what they could handle. Too much, LOL.

NCsmitty

I don't know that it is fair to judge bows and rifles the same way. The difference in drop between the magnums like a 300 Win and a 30/06 are insignificant in the ranges most of us can shoot and if the magnum will kill much quicker you made a bad shot.
However, on game like Elk that are not going to jump an arrow 50 and 60 yard shots are within the capability of many. They don't always give you time to use a range finder etc. particularly when he comes blasting in to a cow call. So, a faster arrow speed is a good thing.

The funny part.

Hey again.
here is the funny part . I have been doing this for them for over 10 years.
Never told them any different till this year. Even their hunting buddies were very impressed with their guns.
Another one is a .243 Rem 700. It was for the manager of a Fair sized company in GR. Mi. He has a plaque on the wall of his office and has "Dimes"
with holes in them attached to that plaque. All at 100 yards. And from the loads and rifle that I worked on for him. I asked him if he would consider selling or trading me that gun. He just smiles. His son killed his first buck with that rifle at 80 yards with one shot to the head and it was a very nice 10 point. his son was 12. That gun will be in the family forever...

I have always heard bigger is better.

Have shot enough deer with the 243 to fill Yankee Stadium

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That is alot of deer. Are you filling the seats or the whole stadium top to bottom.

I'm a bit magnumized...

.357 magnum; .44 magnum; .300 WSM; .25-06 (speedy like a magnum without being called a magnum)

I'm also down to earth...

.38 spl; .38 spl +p; .44 spl; .45 long colt; a meager PSE Nova Rimfire setup w/ 29" draw, 60# draw, and shooting a slow & impotent 275 fps (the bow was a 2006 holdover that I got for $180 as a combo with prong rest, 3 dot day-glow sight, 6 arrow quiver, peep sight, kisser button, release loop, and tuning & adjustments)

My grandfather and his friends started taking me hunting with them when I was seven years old. We hunted rabbits, deer and black bear and just about everyone used a .30-30, .35 Remington and 16ga. shotguns. Everyone wore wool. There was no camo. Ammo was sold in the local hardware store. Every animal that was shot was eaten. Those gentlemen back in those days sure knew how to hunt, track and shoot. Their food supply depended on it.

Anyone that is over 40 something knows that the 30-30 win. has killed a lot of deer.

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this is VERY TRUE! but, my wife shot a nice 8 point @ 70 yards years ago. good (not great) shot placement, through a lung and heart. we spent 5 hours tracking that deer, with a distance over a mile and a half. so while the 30-30 does get the job done, it isnt always the best. i personally killed 5 deer with that rifle, and most of them went less than 50 yards, i think the most was less than 100. when my wife wanted to hunt, i borrowed a gun from my brother, and let her use my 30-30. she liked it so much she bought me the 300 win mag i had been looking at for our anniversary. anyway. the 300 win mag makes very short work of whitetails. at least 80% of them drop right where i shot them. not 1 inch of trailing. the most that a deer has ever moved since i started hunting with the win mag was one i shot at about 100 yards, it ran about 100 yards after i shot it. i couldnt believe it. when i walked up to the deer, something seemed strange there was a 2" entrance hole in the deer, and no exit hole. i walked back to where i had shot the deer and follwed the aproximate trajectory. what i found was a 3" birch tree stump with a 30 caliber hole in the front of it and the back 1/2 of it blown away. while this was completely unintentional, try that with a 30-30, and if you are lucky enough to hit the deer at all, you will either chase it for miles, or never retreive the deer. so magnums do have their place. it is just a matter of the hunter being able to use it propperly. i would rather kill it dead, than have it suffer for a period of time until it looses enough blood that it can lo longer move. now, all of that being said, a 30-06 would PROBABLY do just as well as my 300 win mag 90% of the time. and for most of my target shooting, i download to 30-06 levels. but when i hunt, i want all the power i can HANDLE. the 300 win mag (and my 45/70) is enough for me. i really would not want anything larger, unless i was going to africa. then i would want a 460 weatherby. not that it would be ANY FUN to shoot. but, i want to stop anything that can eat me right in its tracks!

My first deer hunt, I used an Uncle's old Win ('92?) in 25-20. It took 5 rapid and well-placed shots to stop the little 4 point, and a 6th to kill it. Everybody (until my lil bro) who ever used it on their first hunt was successful; and that's about a dozen young hunters. There were never any one-shot-stops, and that rifle has since been retired.
Then, due to increasingly poor eyesight, my Dad bought a BLR and a scope, and I began using his old 94 in 32 Winchester Special. I killed a lot of deer with that rifle. Also, having grown up with the Daisy model 94 "Spittin' Immage" bb gun, it came to my shoulder instantly, and on target. With the 32, only one deer required a 2nd shot during it's 30 yard run.
Then, about 2000, I decided I "need" a scope for the early morning, deep dark woods, and my own rifle. I bought the then brand new (and oh so sexy) Marlin 1895M in 450Marlin, 18.5" bbl and 14 ports in the muzzle. Couple years later, I bought the 1895 MR (22" bbl, no ports) also in 450 Marlin. Both drop deer like an anvil, but the M was sooo f r e a k i n' l o u d in the woods.
This year? I think I'll go retro and bring out the ol' 32 Spec. It shoots so soft and being sans scope, carries like a dream.

As for Magnumitis, I've never owned one. But I used to regularly study reloading manuals, comparing specs., bullets, velocities, and energies. Maybe I'd start with the .243 and compare it with the 25-06. Hmmm, 25-06 looks pretty good. How's it compare to the .270? Then before you know it, I've worked my way up to the .378 Weatherby Magnum... realize how ridiculous I'm being (I've never shot anything larger than a Whitetail), and start all over again. I couldn't begin to estimate the number of hours I've sucessfully and happily killed in this manner!

A .30-30 was my first centerfire rifle. I own a couple a dozen rifles in various calibers including 1 magnum (.270 Weatherby) and I have owned many more including 2 magnums (a .300 Win Mag and a .300 WSM).

I’ve killed about 150+ deer in the last 45+ years and about 70% were killed with a .30-30, .30-06, .270 Win, and .308 Win. About 95% were killed within 350 yards and over half were killed with 100 yards.

I also use to shot targets out to 600 meters with a M1 Garand and a M1A. So I do know a little about long range shooting.

IMO must cartridges kill equally well out to about 300 yards. Unfortunately most shooters aren’t equal. Some shooters have no business shooting past 100 yards and very few shooters have any business shooting past 300 yards.
___________________
The Ol’ Man said, “Son, when you get close enough that you think you can make the shot, get closer.”

I have a .308 and a 300wsm for deer, in my opinion the 308 is overkill even, but shooting my 300 always puts a smile on my face for some reason and I only do neck shots with it. I dont even think of recoil when hunting and only concentrate on trigger pull. If magnum recoil is bothering you, your not shooting enough and your scared of your gun.

Well, I know for a fact that the .30-06 has killed numerous deer, numerous elk and a Moose that wandered into my sight when I had a tag for it. It then had the audacity to die in a swamp, but that's another story.

I have always wondered why anyone needs a belted magnum in the 40 megawatt range, when as far as I can tell, there isnt anything in North America that can't be whacked by a .30-06.

My ole .30-06 works great, has sentimental value and has killed enough meat to fill a dozen freezers.

Yes, yes...Magnumitis is rampant...
I have a good hunting buddy who hunted with a 30-06. Bless his heart, he was forever wounding deer; hitting them in the rear, gut shooting them, etc. Well, he gets an opportunity to go on an elk hunt in Wyoming. Not being a handloader, he asks me what brand and weight bullet to buy. Without hesitation, I tell to buy some Federal Premuims w/ 180 gr. Nosler Partitions. He does so, and I accompany him to the range. Poor guy is having fits getting his rifle sighted in and asks me to have a look at it. I check for loose screws, etc., but everything's fine. So, I fire a 3 shot group with his ammo and get a nice symmetrical 3 shot triangle spanning no more than 1" @ 100 yds. A light pops on in my head... I sit him down at the bench and hand him his rifle, insinuating that it is loaded. (Can you see what's coming?) I tell him to try one more time.
Of course, he pulls the trigger on an empty chamber. With no recoil to hide his horrendous flinch, it looked like he'd almost jerked the entire trigger assembly and floorplate free of the rifle. He turned to me with a look of disgust. Yep, that was a mean thing to do, but we'd found his problem.
So, I loan him my Ruger 280 loaded with 160 gr. Nosler Partitions afterwhich he trots off to Wyoming (with this somewhat lighter recoiling rifle) and drops a 6x6 bull that would be the envy of the most seasoned elk hunter.
After returning home, he purchased from my father a Remington 700 in 243. I loaded hin 100 gr. SP's and he killed deer like there was no tomorrow...all with one shot.
Ditto for another buddy. Scared to death of his .270, so if he did manage to hit a deer, he usually wounded it. He began borrowing my Ruger 77V in 220 Swift and became absolute death with it. I mean, if he got the crosshairs on it, it was dead. He bought the rifle and as far as I know, still uses it.
What shame that so many hunters think they must have a fire-breathing magnum to kill a deer. In '05, my Dad used my 35 Whelen to finish off a large bull elk. I load it with 225 gr. TSX's @ 2660 fps. He hit the bull square in the rectum as it walked directly away from him @ 150 yds. or so. (He'd already hit him with his 338-06) The bull took a few wobbly steps and collapsed. We found the bullet in the outside of the right shoulder!!! Talk about penetration!!! THAT is when I began to realize that magnums really aren't necessary for most hunting.
This year, I bought my first rangefinder to take elk hunting. Since I now can range an animal, it seems to me that having some flat shooting magnum is no longer necessary. I mean, if I know how far the animal is away, what difference does it make if I have to hold over 8" or 18"? So long as the bullet has the power to poke a hole in both lungs, the animal will die. But, that's a subject for another post.

35W

I am fortunate enough to have shot hundreds of big game animals in my life time. In the last week I have shot a dandy pronghorn, a nice plump cow elk, and a six by six bull elk.

For the majority of my adult life I used a 30-06 on elk and something in the 270 to 30-06 range on antelope and deer. For the past few years I have been using a 7mm Remington magnum exclusively, and from my middle 40's to 50 years old I used a 30-338. Considering where I live, the terrain I hunt, the animals I hunt, etc., a magnum makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't leave home without one.

Real nice stories, wildfire and 35 Whelen - a lot of guys need to hear these stories.

And on the subject of misconceptions - lawdie help me this weekend. I'm taking hunting with me, a guy who is a client of mine (from Mexico), and he actually told me that he didn't need to sight in his new muzzleloader if he put a scope on it because "the guys at Academy Sports will sight it in for you" - of course he's referring to bore sighting. I've got an uphill battle, but I took him to the range and we sighted his ML (actually with irons, which he certainly didn't think needed to be sighted in, but they did - and now they're dead on). This same guy, when I offered him a smokin deal on my nicely-sporterized 1917 US "enfield", looked at me with a puzzled look and said something to the effect of "isn't that too expensive for an old gun like that, when a brand new one is the same price - only $300?" (he was referring to the Mossberg 100ATR he had seen at Academy). :banghead:

Moooose102 and 35 W.

Hey there;
I like what you are saying.. The fact is That many on here have "Worked" up to a magnum. Here is the problem... many today are starting with the magnum. as we see from 35s story this type of deal will increase, not decrease.. The rest of you that are currently using a mag, Do not missunderstand,, i do not in any way condem that... they are tools that in the right hands work well. in the wrong hands they just make bigger wounds and blunder shots at much further distances then th eguy can really "Handle"
Handle is a funny word. Absorb recoil with out falling a part or make precise shots ?
We have likely all had the shot that just plain went wrong , The caliber was not the blame.. The shot was. If we are honest we all know that.
While all of us are capable of firing any magnum we all can not "handle" the magnum... 3 Shot groups under 1" from one guy and bullets not even on the paper from the next. That is when he has Too much gun.. But by that time we all also know that he will "Flinch" with a .22 rimfire... The problem has been deeply imbeded and likely won't just go away...
That will take time and some serious work...
For those of us that can take deer no matter what we use, I tip my hat. To those that need some help , Well that is why we are here...
35 W . You did the right thing by working with that guy..

My name is BoilerUP, and I am a recoil wuss.

I hated shooting my 30-06 Rem. 742 until I found the joy that is LimbSaver, and now I can shoot it all day like a 22-250. Why does this matter with a deer rifle? Proficiency in the spring and summer means no questions about a shot in November...

My dad owns no fewer than a half dozen 7mm Rem Mags, and for the longest time as a teenager I was the only person that hunted without one; I had "only" a 270 Win. Even then, I never understood the need or desire for a shoulder cannon to kill a whitetail deer <100yd.

Two weeks from today is the open of KY modern gun season, and I plan on having both a 30-06 (loaded down to probably 308 recoil) and a 260 Rem available to me. The deer on our land are large, but certainly not large enough that even a 243 won't capably put them down; the biggest buck taken off our farm dressed out at nearly 225, had 11 points, and was cleanly killed with a heart/lung shot by a 223!

My name is BoilerUP, and I am a recoil wuss.

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Finally, a man who admits his shortcomings. Bet he's a good shot.
35W

My rambling, disjointed thoughts on the subject:

What's it matter? Who cares how Ol' Joe spends his money. He wants a magnum, let him get a magnum. It's (currently) a free Country.

Yeah, it's true; some hunters buy magnums to compensate for poor shooting. These are the same guys that can't shoot a .22 accurately. Some people won't spend the time, effort or money to become adequate marksmen.

Gun sales are what keep the industry afloat. If everybody hunted with Grandaddy's old 30-30, we would have no gun industry.

I've seen several deer killed cleanly with .22lr. Does that make .22lr a deer cartridge?

Too many people in the world of firearms and hunting get hung up on the word need. Do you really need XYZ caliber to hunt deer? Do you need camo to hunt deer? Do you need a heated blind to hunt? Do you need a semi-auto rifle? On and on and on.

Face it folks, nobody needs to hunt to survive anymore. It's a hobby just like golf, coin collecting or knitting. People do it because they enjoy it. Just like any other hobby, people are going to spend money on it. Items will be bought that others may not understand.

And yes, I hunt with magnums. 75% of my deer hunting is done with either a .41 mag or .44 mag. 20% is done with the fastest bow I can find and the final 5% is done with an inline muzzleloader with magnum loads of 777 pellets. I'm not the world's greatest shot with any of these, but am more than adequate to harvest deer with them.

+1 for John. I do not golf, sail, or collect baseball cards. I hunt, shoot, and fish. Not having those other evil hobbies allows me to do a lot of gun buying and trading and is the reason that I now load over 40 different calibers and between my dad and I have a few guns. They are of all different sizes and shapes and all please me very much. Love to hit the big town and shop,shop,shop.

I understand the point(s) "John1911" and "X-rap" make and, fact is, if some knucklehead wants to hunt deer with a .460 Weatherby I couldn't care less.

But quite often that same knucklehead goes around assuring newbies that they need a .460 Weatherby to hunt deer, or that the .460 Weatherby is "one of best" deer calibers, or that they should spend their lives hunting deer with a .460 Weatherby just because there is a 1-in-1-billion chance they may come upon an elephant in the Arizona desert or Colorado Rockies. It's just flat wrong to infect others with that kind of Stupidity.

Sending a trusting newbie out with a Magno-blaster is a huge disservice to the shooter, to the game, to the sport and to all the rest of us.
Anyone that irresponsible and/or stupid should be barred from hunting.... after they are horsewhipped.