S&T In The Event Of Civil Unrest?

In the grand scheme of things the most likely issue is probably going to be getting home from work on the 5th or 6th, depending on when the results are announced, etc. Have a couple routes planned & some good shoes to wear if you have to walk. A small bag with snacks, water, small med kit & other necessities would be good too. You might end up walking a lot farther than planned to get away from the idiocy.

S&T over potential problems with the election? Okay, #1 is to have a way to get out of harm's way during the most likely times of unrest. I work in what some would call a marginal area. I have at least six different ways to get out of the area depending upon which ways might be blocked or jammed up with traffic or civil unrest. I also have roughly identified the most likely areas the problems might flow out of, which includes inside the work place.

What I see as the most likely problem times are mid-afternoon when early projections are coming in. Then late at night after the dinner hour once tallies are being broadcast. Then the early morning hours as people have drunk themselves into a rage. Then the following days as folks might get a bit organized to act out their rage in loosely coordinated displays of displeasure.

Worst case is I bug out of work and take a few days off while the city P.D. puts the lid back on.

But in reality I expect only very localized problems that won't affect 95% of the public.

I would expect some kind of unrest whether Obama wins or loses. If he loses, the marginalized crowds will turn out to protest, and that could turn into a riot.
If he wins, same crowds will celebrate in the streets and that could turn into a riot. Either way expect something.

NYC had not seen major civil unrest since the Crown Heights riots in 1991 and I think this occasion could trigger something.

I don't have a plan for avoiding this as I can't take off from work (I work in Manhattan) and my way home is through the South Bronx. So hopefully nothing will start until I get home where I'm safe. I'll be watching carefully for any signs of trouble and if anything might sleep on the job. We'll see.

The great thing about election days, as most employers understand people leaving a bit early "to vote".

Since there are so many natural disaster preparedness threads on THR perhaps the discussion is better served by addressing the differences between a natural disaster and civil unrest . . . and how to be prepared for the differences.

The results of natural vs. civil unrest will be very much the same I think. The start will be different in that there will be no physical break down that will trigger looting, violence, and destruction of property.
Once the civil taboos are broken then the fabric will quickly unravel and the voices of leadership can either help or harm.
It seems to me that as the numbers tighten we have been set up for the worst by the media and pollsters. Some expectations have been raised so high and some individuals and organiziations have so much credibility at stake that My concern is they will go all or nothing even if it causes great harm.
On the other side you have people who will have their votes nullified by the corrupt and illegal registration/voting that is now being investigated in many of the decisive states.
Either way this election will put us closer to the brink than any since 1860.That is just my opinion but there are a lot of big factors on the line and we as a country are as divided as ever.

That's my point, if there isn't much difference - why do we need a specific non-political thread on civil unrest when we have so many other threads on disaster preparedness.

Only difference I can see is perhaps less disruption to infrastructure and more people looking for trouble vs looking to survive.

SO does it boil down to how to defend your family/house/self against a mob?

Hose along the roof to prevent someone from setting roof on fire?

Board up the windows?

Wish for full auto weapons?

Seems like a short discussion.

Watch this link (LA riots, Korea town - 92):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quNEzN0_toc

Pay attention to time frame 1:38 see the barricades, see the coca cola flats, good barricade, but maybe a "throw down wallet" for the looters? Time frame 3:43 that is a PASGT (army kevlar - about Level IIA protection) that guy is wearing...

Just saying, it is educational. Overt display of arms... Prepared... PASGT vests...

Edit:

Props to one of the Newsmen for seeming to have an understanding of the firearms the Koreans had. Where are those guys today?

Supplemental link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYnJiiLGwjY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtdJ0ms3XLQ

Watch this link (LA riots, Korea town - 92):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quNEzN0_toc

Pay attention to time frame 1:38 see the barricades, see the coca cola flats, good barricade, but maybe a "throw down wallet" for the looters? Time frame 3:43 that is a PASGT (army kevlar - about Level IIA protection) that guy is wearing...
>>

Yep, I remember, I was there. Good video to remind us.

Be ready, not just with a firearm for protection, but a backup plan, and alternate routes in case you have to bug out.

precautions for LEO's and first responsders

I fall in neither of the above catagories, but it seems to me that people who might have to be actively involved in any problems would have a different outlook than those that can "sit tight."

Most of what I hear on this site assumes that we'll be present to protect our families and property. I would think LEO's, fire fighters, and EMT's could not make that assumption.

Would anyone who has thought through this care to comment?

I think this would be a helpful perspective for all the members here.

-MG

I live in the outer burbs of the Seattle Metro area in an average middle class town just up the road from a lower socio-economic area more prone to gang violence and the sort. I'm on a main road between the two. My house is a rental owned by my in-laws. I have no fence and am less than a mile from a brand new shopping ctr.
The in-laws live about a mile away with a fenced property set back off the main roads. Their little neighborhood (maybe 15-20 homes on acre lots) is heavily treed and there is only one road in/out.
I guess if things go sideways, the wife and I will pack it in to head over there. It would be more easily defended and closed to unwelcome visitors.
I need to find out if the father-in-law has got any ammo for his guns though. Last I checked, the .308 .30-.30 and 12 ga. remained in the closet. . .

I'm good to go on guns ,ammo food...but water?I've only got a three day supply,max.Don't forget the water folks.Most dried foods depend on it,and you can live a week or two without food,but three days [average] without water,and you are in deep ...stuff.

Depending on climate and activity level

Depending on your location and what kind of neighborhood you live in it could be severe. I honestly could imagine my hometown having serious backlash no matter which candidate wins. And Or whatever shenanigans my state voting offices could get into. I personally will likely be taking it to the seas. Get out bout 15 miles of the coast. I'm real paranoid about the future stability of our nation. A few friends and I say this would be the best idea. Of course if you don't have a large enough boat you might have to commandeer a vessel that would sustain you and yours. Extreme times require extreme measures.

However my hopes are that we get through this election with a peace amongst us that will carry on in the following years no matter what candidate wins. I still have a little hope. I also admire anyone that does too, because that is a trait of a true patriot.

My only experience with social unrest comes from living in Europe during the race riots that recently happened there.

My few thoughts from that experience is that I would be concerned about fire. Those particular rioters started a lot of fires 10s of thousands over the course of a month. They burned cars, buses, schools, and government buildings mostly although other buildings were burned as well.

The second is that most problems were avoidable by staying out of certain areas, particularly those areas where lots of the rioters lived. If I lived in such an area I would consider leaving if possible if there was adequate reason to believe trouble might start. Because buses were being burned I avoided public transportation. Largely if you just stayed inside you were okay. That means that having adequate supplies to hunker down for a week or so would seem mandatory and probably be more helpful than anything. For me this is common sense beyond just this election. In Europe I had no guns, if I had they would have been at the ready.

BHP fan, time to stock up on those soups and stews that are not condensed, like the Campbells Hearty series. Darn good food, and requires no water. If everything goes OK, they are good quick meals for any normal day, as well.
Another good no water choice are the Hormel trays, which do notrequire water, or microwave. They can be boiled according to the instructions on the back, or eaten as is, according to a Hormel spokesman, fully cooked. Tasty, lots of chow in that little lookinjg package.

There are three real dangers in a riot. Mobs, fire and government forces.

How do you disperse a mob? With tear gas. I don't know where mere citizens can get tear gas but you can get pepper spray grenades and foggers that do much the same thing. It's probably too late to order them now unless you can get overnight express shipping but if you can obtain them they would be smart to have.

How do you put out fires? Fire extinguishers.

How do you survive interaction with government forces? Well, that's real iffy. You are way more likely to encounter them if you're traveling than if you stay home so if rioting breaks out get home and stay home. In fact they will be one the news telling you to stay in your homes. If you happen to get intercepted by some road block or other on the way home try your best to act like a sheep. That will be hard because you will almost certainly be carrying a gun. You'd be nuts not to carry your gun. It isn't worth leaving it at home just to please whatever government force happens to confront you in your area on your way home. At least pretend not to be a gun nut, you only own one for self defense. Officer Friendly will not be impressed with your extensive knowledge of deadly weapons. Definitely don't say anything about having that gun because you feared rioting that day, just say you always have it which should be true too.

With the three big threats out of the way everything else becomes a more standard self preservation scenario. I'm sure everybody here already has defensive firearms and ammo, food and water and toilet paper.

The biggest threat to your getting home will be traffic jams, road blocks and blocked roads. If you're out in your car as most people will be for work try to have a secondary vehicle in case the road becomes impassible for your automobile. A bicycle, roller blades, skateboard, one of those nifty little gas powered weedwacker scooters, whatever. Walking is slow. Dead slow. Speed is life. Anything faster and easier than walking will help you survive. Know the area so you can route around blocked off or dangerous areas.

A Segway as a bug out vehicle, never thought of that!

You know the old rule, "If it's stupid but it works it isn't stupid." People throw tens of thousands of dollars at trucks and cars that are very very easy to stop when a beat up old $500 dirt bike will take you a lot further. There's guys out there with deuce and a halfs that think they'll just push traffic out of their way. Yeah... how are you going to push a line of traffic miles long, all bumper to bumper? Imagine how that guy will feel as you zip past him on your segway!

I have been thinking of this very subject on my own and talking about it with a few friends for a couple of weeks now. A good friend just bought a Mossberg 500 shotgun and ample ammo for it at the request of his wife. She is not a "gun person" but thought that they needed a good shotgun in addition to the M1 Carbine and the handguns he owns.

I myself will say this, we have food and water. I do not really expect any civil unrest that happens to effect us where we live (about 20 miles East of Memphis) but I do expect there to be some problems in Memphis itself. I have a good home defense shotgun (Mossberg 590) and an Ak with plenty of ammo and magazines. We are ready but, as I said, I really don't expect to have any trouble out in our little town.

Prepare for the worst; pray for the best

My home is less than a mile from the site of the Obama election night rally. We are embracing the above motto with unusual vigor these days.....

Interesting stuff...my situation is a little different, I live in a large city in South Texas. My girlfriend is disabled, can't really walk more than 20 yards or so at a time. She is also diabetic. Since I won't abandon her, I have decided I have one of 3 options: sit tight and fight, hide, or run. The first keeps me with all our medical stuff and firearms, but runs the risk of us being burned out (I live in an apartment.) The second...would be ok if I could take what we need in my truck, on foot it would be damn difficult, since she can't really carry anything...the third would be difficult but doable in the truck (remember the hurricane evacuation traffic jams?) but almost impossible on foot. Sooo...I bought some more 12 ga. and 9mm hollowpoint ammo, beyond that I have the SKS and about 400 rds and the P22 with about 1200 rds. I always have extra food and water. And knives...and Mosin-Nagant rifles with long bayonets on them!! Also, a decent backpack and tent. Luckily, it is not summer her in S. Texas, when dehydration would be a real problem.

Lee, thanks for opening this discussion. I have to admit that this is probably at the top of my flash board right now. My home environment is secure, I live in the middle of nowhere, but my wife and I will both be in town on the 4th. She is working at a bank and I am working at the polls on the other side of town. Polls are one of the places that my CCW specifically does not cover, so my gun will be in the lockbox in the truck. We have a fairly large, although largely peaceable black population, but the university brings in a fair number of agitators. I remember when I was a student there 1989-1991 that there was a practice called "bumping" where they would walk down the sidewalks with their arms linked like they where playing "red rover" and force white students off into the streets while parting to allow other blacks to pass, among other things. Any white student who refused to go into the gutter was liable to get roughed up. If Obama wins I'm not worried about celebratory riots, but I AM worried about the reaction if he looses a close, contested race. I am faced with a situation of having to cross town during unrest to reach my wife, then again to get out of town. Same thing the next day, where I will be at work on one side of town and she will be on the other. My question- Any suggestion for one person traveling in the circumstances of an active civil unrest? My only real option as I see it is handgun in my lap while I drive until I get to my wife. Once I pick her up I don't want her driving, I'm the ex-protective services driver, but she is nowhere near the shot I am either. Tuesday she gets off work hours before I'll be done at the polls, so Hopefully any problems won't have occurred yet, BUT she picks up a friend at the sheriffs office for the ride home and the sheriffs office is, of course, located smack in the middle of exactly the side of town I want her staying the heck out of. At the polls I am not allowed to have my cell phone turned on, so she can't call me in case of trouble. I'm thinking about leaving it on, but turning the thing to vibrate for text and sound off for calls so she can text 911 if she has trouble. Anybody have any suggestions?

John

If anything happens, it will be in the big cities . . . and I would hope that they are prepared to handle it in short order after everything that has happened in the past ten years.

That said, I'd be surprised if something did happen no matter who wins.

John, if civil unrest is going to become an issue in your area you will know it before you and your wife have to go to work on Wednesday.

I know one business owner that is giving Wednesday off to all of his employees regardless of who wins. How about asking the boss about taking the day off if it looks like problems are going to occur?

The secondcitycop blog has some good tips on "riot survival for dummies" and a followup in "riot prep" as the CPD gets ready for post election challenges. Some valuable points for us non LEOs that I found in the several hundred comments posted by (presumably) mostly Chicago Polic are 1.) Avoid potential trouble areas--staying home might be a really good idea, 2.) If you see signs of trouble coming your way don't wait to see it with your own eyes retreat right away and 3.) If you find yourself in the midst of an emotionally charged group/crowd get yourself on the highest alert possible and get out of there ASAP or find a place to shelter in place.

It's probably a good idea to avoid larger gatherings like the election night "celebration" in Chicago that has room for 70,000 people but for which Mayor Daley hopes for one million people to show up in the area.

CHICAGO (WLS) -- More details are emerging about the massive election night event in Grant Park one week from Tuesday.

Chicago Mayor Richard Daley says one million people could show up for Barack Obama's rally.

City officials say downtown businesses should consider letting their employees go home early on Election Day.

It now appears tickets will be required to get into Obama's event. But many who want to be a part of next week's rally are still expected to flock to the park.

"There will be a lot of people who want to come down and celebrate, and we hope it's a million or more," Daley said.

If what the mayor hopes for actually happens, Obama's election night speech will attract many more people than the 70,000 city officials say can fit into the southernmost part of Grant Park known as Hutchinson Field. Stages, camera platforms and tents are being set up there inside a fence surrounding what by election night, will be one of the most secured outdoor areas in the United States.

The mayor said he expects that more than ten times as many people will gather elsewhere downtown and along the lakefront for what Daley called "a festival."

"It's going to be called a celebration. People coming down want to celebrate, and that's what the feeling I have for this huge event is going to take place next Tuesday," Daley said.

Chicago Police Superintendent Jody Weis, whose currently undermanned department would have to control crowds inside as well as outside the perimeter, appeared surprised at the mayor's prediction of one million.

"I was at meetings all day yesterday concerning that, and I didn't think anyone would have an exact number," Weis said.

Huge crowds and the additional Secret Service effort they require have become a staple of Obama's presidential campaign. The mayor has put a $2 million price tag on the election night event and said last week the campaign has promised to pay "every penny of it" because of the city's financial crisis.

As for maintaining public safety that night, the mayor said Chicago's police and fire departments understand the challenge.

"Well, you have to be concerned when you get one million people, that's a lot of people. You better be concerned," Daley said.

Click to expand...