Kahr PM45 Problem

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Ed4032

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I bought a new Kahr PM45 at the gun show today. I have a CW9 already and love it. I got home with the PM45 and put a round in the chamber and dropped the slide. It did not go completely closed. So I tried to pull the slide back. I couldn't. The slide is totally locked and I can't move it. I then read the manual, because if all else fails read the instructions. It says "do not load an individual round into the chamber and then close the slide." I have done this with many guns and it did not occur to me that it would be a problem.

My question is, has anyone else had this happen? What should I do? I hate to send it in to the factory already.
 
NEVER a GOOD idea in ANY firearm. You are stressing the extractor and spring, and could easily break off the hook. When the round loads from the mag, it slide up INTO the extractor. The hook doesn't ride up over the cartridge rim when sliding into battery each time. Just because you've gotten away with it until now, means it's a good thing to do. The chamfer cut(s) on the front (and rear) of the extractor hook are there just in case it has to ride over the brass rim, and mainly for tuning how the spent brass rotates around the hook during ejection.

Does the PM45 external extractor have a way to remove it from the outside? Some are bolted down? If so, I would try to unbolt & remove the extractor. If not, then I would MAYBE try to smack the rear of the slide to get it fully into battery. Remember you have a live round in there and not sure if the Kahr locks the firing pin when out of battery. Keep the muzzle DOWNRANGE!!!
 
Rustynuts you are a smart man and I am not. I did try your advise about smacking the back and WOW it went to full battery. However I still cannot get the slide to raqck. I need to go to the range before I fire one off in the house. The wife gets upset for some reason when I do that. Thanks !!
 
now

that it is in full battery with the slide fully closed, FIRE IT...
 
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My P45

I sold an unfired P45 to my best friend and the slide does not fully close on a round either (from the mag). Even when shooting the gun this happens. Not sure if it's the same issue but I noticed on my old one/his that the front rails aren't straight. Not to hijack but does anyone else have rails like this on thier's? We have over 200 rounds through the gun now. And it jams maybe 1/10 rounds.
 
unfired

sounds to me like it needs the 200 round break in, with some lube on the slide grooves.

Are you using the slide release to feed that first round also??? Before your freind panics, hav ehis shoot it about 200 rounds, properly lubed, my bet it willbe OK...
 
I tend to believe people when this comes up. But could someone explain why manual round loading Stresses the extractor? I own different types of pistols so please be Broad in explanation
 
I think i saw a graphic in an old thread on this subject, possibly on a different site.

Anyway, when chambering a round directly and slamming the slide forward, the extractor HITS the rear of cartridge and has to deflect out and around the rim to engage the groove. Now take a look at your extractor. Notice it is kind of a knife edge there? Thin metal doesn't like being impacted constantly. You are risking breaking it off.

In a normal load from the mag the round actually slides up into the groove on the extractor. The knife edge isn't hit and the extractor does not budge outwards any. No stress on the thin knife edge. The stresses imparted in an impact are far greater than what the extractor sees simply pulling the spent brass out after firing.

About as clear as I can describe it without the graphic.

Found this graphic on a 1911 assembly. It's pretty cool just for the assembly part!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6SmlOEzNBs

At times 3:45 & 4:18 You can kind of see the next round sliding up at the last instant INTO the extractor, not before and getting hit.
 
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So if I understand you all correctly, e.g., to go 6 in the mag. + 1 in the chamber on a Kahr, you DON'T manually insert into the chamber, but rather use the slide release to go into battery, then remove the mag. and stick another round in the mag.?

Or am I missing something....
 
Rusty explained it very well. Depending on the specific type of weapon and extractor, you can do a world of hurt by manually loading round into the chamber.

Load one from the magazine, release the magazine and throw one more in. Voila!
 
I sold an unfired P45 to my best friend and the slide does not fully close on a round either (from the mag).
That's why I'm hesitant to give Kahr another try. My PM9 was the least reliable of all the firearms I've owned. My new Ruger LCP is the second most unreliable. Hopefully that will be gone with one trip to the factory..with Kahr it took 2 trips, and still didn't work. If I could go back, I'd be more stern with Kahr and ask for a working gun rather than taking a $300 dollar hit. Maybe you guys should too, before you spend more money troubleshooting and shipping. Good luck.
 
unfired Pm45

How about your friend giving that gun some rounds down range before prejudging it as unreliable. Is he racking the slides first round our using the slide lock release like the manual says. has he greased up the rails (properly lubed) .

He can also just sit there and rack the slide as fast as he can about 500 times, this enhances break in without going bang. I don't think this is asking to much either.

Every semi I own and I mean every semi i own, I do a polish job on the feed ramp and isnide the barrel chamber. You sure can't hurt anything buy doing this and I know some are paranoid about having to do it. I am only suggesting to do this as again it is a no brainer and certainly has to help more than hinder

Have him recheck to see if that outer recoil spring is on properly. The open end of the spring goes towards the front of the slide and the more closed end towards the recoil rod head. This is very important for proper reliability.

No cost expense what so ever here either...
 
Jocko

If you actually read my post. I wasn't drawing conclusions to the gun. I do feel bad I sold a friend a gun and it didn't work out of the box. We have shot 200 rounds through it now. I stretched the spring a little to give it more umph closing the slide. We only load via the mag. The feed ramp is nicely done and smooth. I do have concerns with the rails inside the dust cover being visually "not straight", but we didn't give up on the gun nor did I say anything of the sort. I'm not a kahr hater, so no reason to be defensive (remember I did purchase the gun for myself in the first place) Oh and where did you get the unfired PM45, looks like you read half of the first post and half of mine.
 
oops

sorry I said PM45 when you stated P45. you stated unfired, I just attributed it to a different model. Was not even implying you were hammering the gun either. I merely ask a few questions and gave some insights that I have learned.

Sorry if you mistook my intentions.:confused:
 
Geesh, you gotta admit. Seems every week there is a new thread on someone having problems with a Kahr. I mean, I doubt folks are making this stuff up.

I so wanted to carry a PM9 and then maybe this new Kahr380, but it's a tough sell. I honestly think Jocko found the diamond in the rough.
 
I carry my PM9 everyday. Ive had a few minor problems, but nothing to warrant sending it back.
I used it in a CCW class a few weeks back, 550 rds fired in one day. I did have some slide lock failures when the gun started to "dry out". My PM9 likes to be "wet." The few other probs were my fault, I wasnt seating the mags completely b/c of the short grip.
Ive taken a couple pistol shooting classes now, and strongly suggest anyone who carries to do so, and Ive seen several guns malfunction(Glocks, M&Ps, 1911s, I had my XD hang up on day 2 of the last class.) Any gun whether it cost $100 or $1000 can screw up at any time. Thats why they teach malfunction drills, so if a prob does happen you will know what to do to get your gun running again and back into the fight.
Malfunctions should be sorta rare, so if you having 1 out of 10rnds mess up, then something needs to be done. May need cleaning/lubing, it may be a mag problem, or it may need some repair.
 
not defending the kahrs benderx4, just passing on my results. If we seen one issue a week that would be 52 a year. I am sure kahr would be totally elited to see those results, as would Smith,Ruger, Glock.

More people will always come on a forum and vent frustrations than those totally satisfied. Just a fact of life. Also some come to vent that even don't own the product--just to stir.

My kahr k9 has been perfect for 4000 rounds, and I don't clean it very often.

I read where Rohrbaugh owners swear by them, and we all know they are very ammo sensitive, but those that own them seem to work through the issues and give them a thumbs up. Price is certainly not everything in a gun, be it cheap in price or "over priced".

You also tend to go out of business when you make a product that is a POS, and introduce another product that is also a POS. You have to produce, shoorters demand it, and for sure CCW people demand it.

I read all kinds of posts about the Colt Pony's and they are super looking guns. I have yet to read where an owner has come on and said I have 2500 or I have 5000 rounds through my pony and it has been flawless. Now I am not knocking that Pony either, Hell I sold um when in the gun business, didn't sell many at all for the 380 just was not as popular as today and CCw definitely was not as popular then either. Why did the pony ultimately get dropped?? I don'tknow the answer.

Kt owners some swear by their little 380, I never had one that worked and heavens knows I tried, but that bunch will defend their product to the very end, so there has to be some "merit" there somewhere.

I normally take posts about any gun mfg-er with a grain of salt, being on both sides of the counter, I also understand.

If you looking for a pocket rocket, see what is available, try to shoot one before buying, for sure handle one before buying--then buy it and cross your fingers. If you love the gun and it gives some issues, let the factory try to make it right for you one time. If after that it is not right, PEDDLE it and move on. I will not carry a gun that I cannot totally trust-period.


One can go to the Para forum and read about many mny issues with the Para line every single day. Some swear by them I owned one and swore at it. I can assure you, one can go to the 1911 forum and read about problems every single day, be it magazine related, slide release not right, Probably more little nit picking issues with 1911 models than any model out there but you know what THE 1911 GUYS LOVE UM and they seem to work through the issues.
 
Jocko,

"I read where Rohrbaugh owners swear by them, and we all know they are very ammo sensitive, but those that own them seem to work through the issues and give them a thumbs up. Price is certainly not everything in a gun, be it cheap in price or "over priced".

You also tend to go out of business when you make a product that is a POS, and introduce another product that is also a POS. You have to produce, shoorters demand it, and for sure CCW people demand it.

I read all kinds of posts about the Colt Pony's and they are super looking guns. I have yet to read where an owner has come on and said I have 2500 or I have 5000 rounds through my pony and it has been flawless. Now I am not knocking that Pony either, Hell I sold um when in the gun business, didn't sell many at all for the 380 just was not as popular as today and CCw definitely was not as popular then either. Why did the pony ultimately get dropped?? I don'tknow the answer."



My Rohrbaugh is not ammo sensitive, but I do have a pretty recently made one, that may make a difference. I can't also directly speak on the Pony, but I do have a Colt Pocket Nine which has yet to malfunction or be picky with any brand of ammo be it FMJ or JHP. I think the Pony was a copyright problem which also took down the Pocket Nine.

I've picked up a few Kahrs, but just cannot find trusting in them enough for CCW.
 
There is much truth in what you say. Like I said, for years, I've fondled PM9s, rented them, oogled them, but have yet to pull the "proverbial" trigger on one.

And you're right. For the amount of threads I see about issues with 1911s, I would wonder why anyone would EVER buy one at all?

Honestly, the one brand I read about the LEAST (as far as problems are concerned), is the GLOCK. Funny, cause that's one of the only brands I've never owned, and don't plan on owning.

Go figure.
 
and I sold hundreds of G17 and g19 when they first came out and NEVER had one ever come back. I once myself fired 20,000 rounds (without cleaning it)through my G19 some 25 years ago, just to prove the reliability of them when they first came out. All relaods and the damn glocks always went "bang"

But as I have stated in the pat our Indiana State polcie went to the Glock 22 about 4 years ago and had to return every one of them due to issues of reliability. Glock came in and exchanged all of the Glock 22 for the good ol reliable G17 which they carry to this day and swear by them.

you either hate or glock or you love it but you can't really knock glock reliability.
 
I love my Glocks. Both the G22 and G19 can't be beat. My G22 was actually a Missouri State Hwy Patrol trade in.
 
From what I've read, stick with the metal framed Kahr's. Supposedly less problems. I have an MK-40 (metal) that's been great and I would have no problems CC'ing it. Have never tried their polymers, so I have to reserve judgment.
 
From what I've read, stick with the metal framed Kahr's.

That seems to be the common wisdom. It's a shame, too , because the little pistols do feel pretty good and have nice workmanship.

I was seriously considering a PM45, but after hearing of so many problems with them, I opted for the extra bulk of my 100% reliable S&W CS-45.
 
Hello, I hear what most are saying and it's kind of funny as when I was at the range today there were two other gentlemen shooting also. I got to talk to both of them about what they were shooting, The first fellow shot a .22 Buckmark and then later a .45 Kimber, I asked how he liked it (the Kimber), he said he loved it. After he left, the other man pulled out his Kimber after he finished shooting his .22 S&W, and I asked him also about his Kimber, his reply; POS its been back to the shop and still having problems (FTF). I too have a Kimber and so far so good, also just aquired a Kahr PM9 and I really like it and have had no problems with it. It really doesn't matter which gun manufacturer as they will all make a lemon among the good ones. It's just some gun Manufacturers produce more of them than others. LM
 
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