New York Gun Laws FELONY!

Massachusetts is similar. No Mass permit = felony. So if a NH resident steps over the border with a NH licensed CC and gets caught by the police - Felony.

Here there was a NH citizen who worked at a Mall near the border of Mass. Employee parking was 100 yards into Mass. His car was broken into. Police responded, found the Glock 19 that he had a NH pistol permit for, confiscated it and charged him with multiple felonies. After a very expensive court battle, he successfully got the case dropped though they did not return his firearm.
Welcome to the world of "reasonable restrictions."

In the good old days if they wanted to breech your door they used a megaphone first.


really? i never saw that where did you?

If the scenario you laid out is actually what happened, in addition to seeking legal representation, I would also recomend that your friend (or yourself) seek assistance from the NRA. This is just the kind of thing they should be chomping at the bit to address.

I mean, an American citizen joins the military to defend the rights of all American's, then he himself is denied the very rights he fought to defend!

Who knows? This could be the case that could lead to the over turn of those ridiculous laws that are in affect in the great state of NY.

REMEMBER: Heller was won because of sympathetic defendants, just like this guy. Ask the state court to incorporate Heller. If they don't, take it to federal court and ask them to incorporate Heller. This is a GREAT opportunity to use Heller to modify state laws! Someone let the NRA know about this case, if they have a contact.

The other lesson is that unless you intend to be a test case, it's worthwhile to know the gun laws anyplace to which or through which you plan to transport a weapon.

Mike

My guess is he lived on base but his buddy didn't. Its common for a guy to live off base and store guns for his buddys, maybe not the smartest thing but the red tape and time hassle of the Arms Room is sorta prohibitive and you are subject to pretty strong penalty if you come in late after shooting or hunting and can't get it put back. When did this happen?
When my son moved up there I asked him about what he was taking and if it was legal there.
I knew handguns were out but checked on long guns and saw the AW restrictions and he had one. Well he got it home safely, but do advise people to actually check the various state laws espeially in those known to be less gun friendly.
My kid was lucky but I still wished I would have checked before he left.

http://www.drum.army.mil/sites/about/security.asp
Pretty much says it all.
Jag may not even help since it is a blatent violation.

Kragax said:

The 10 day thing is BS as far as I know.

Click to expand...

It's not BS. When you move to NY State, you have a short amount of time to surrender to the police (or an FFL, I believe) any handguns that you own until such time as you obtain a license. The reason they have the law in place is for people who move to NY State from other areas where handguns are legal (say, Vermont, which is right next door and has very few restrictions). It wouldn't really be in New York State's interest to put troopers at the border and wait for moving vans to cross the state line, pull them over, and arrest them if they're transporting any handguns. And, yeah, getting a license takes a while, but I think the police are required by law to hold the guns for you for at least two years, so you should have plenty of time to become legal. (The law is also in place for people who inherit legally owned handguns, or in other similar situations. Check here for more info.) With all the strange laws, Orange County Shooters recommends that you simply leave your handguns with someone out of state, rather than bring them with you and surrender them. Probably not a bad idea.

The key to this, though, is that you have to obey the laws. If these guns had been in a safe and the OP had a convincing story about how he was going to bring them to the police as soon as he had a chance, he had the licensing paperwork on hand, etc., he might have a better case. However, it sounds like he just put them at his buddy's house, which was obviously not a good idea. Hopefully a lawyer can help, but it would have been best if the law had been followed from the beginning, even if he didn't agree with the law.

It sucks, but it is required of us as responsible citizens to know the firearms laws of states that we live in, or travel through. I will never drive through Massachusetts with a firearm, because I know that they have some crazy laws, and there are rumblings that they will not honor the "peaceable journey" laws that most other states do. I don't want a hassle, or a felony conviction, so I avoid the issue by obeying the law.

sounds like a good time to get the permit scheme ruled unconstitutional for NYS.

DKSuddeth said:

sounds like a good time to get the permit scheme ruled unconstitutional for NYS

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there is no sign that this is going to happen. Even in the Heller case they ruled that as long as the process of licensing is not done in an "arbitrary and capricious" manner then it's legally allowable. If any part of NY's law were to be challenged, it would be the virtual ban on guns in NYC, and even that is probably not going anywhere.

I think our best shot at this would be to show how different the licensing procedure is in different counties in NY (and therefore "arbitrary" based on where your house happens to be). In some places you get your license back within weeks, but in others it can take months. In some counties you can be called before a judge who will interview you to decide whether to issue you a license, while in other counties it's basically a civil servant with a rubber stamp. But, that all probably falls under the legal umbrella of local control, and I don't think anyone wants to give that up.

This story sounds fabricated. I don't understand how they just so happened to raid the house after your friend just so happen to leave guns there?

Why don't you tell us the real story?

This story sounds fabricated. I don't understand how they just so happened to raid the house after your friend just so happen to leave guns there?

Click to expand...

Meaning you believe the guy fired the guns, and was subsequently arrested.
That may or may not be the case, and the benefit of the doubt is best given to the poster for the sake of polite highroad conversation.

It is entirely possible a shot was fired by someone resulting in a response, it is also just as likely a person with new firearms decided to fire a shot outside, whether safely into a backstop or into dirt, or dangerously into the air.
Either way many cities now have a sound positioning system that locates the general position of a discharged firearm. That alone, or that combined with a report from a neighbor could result in such actions.
So someone safely firing a round into the ground in thier backyard for example would immediately be known as the location.
Someone using fireworks or other loud noise makers would also trigger such a system.
In fact in a city it is an excellent way to frame a known gun owner on the 4th of July or New Years. An explosion near thier home can result in a police investigation, by police that already assume they are guilty.

it just encourages people to make illegal copies, putting (a bit stupid) law abiding citizens in tax a supported prison system.

Click to expand...

You cannot put a "law abiding" person in prison for doing something "illegal" that they actualy did.

You are confusing "law abiding" with an otherwise good or unpredatory individual. They are far from the same thing. "Law abiding" is obeying the law, regardless if it is right or wrong.

There are people that will steal property and value legaly from others on a regular basis, within the law. From banking, loan sharks, towing rackets, lawyers who regularly work eminent domain cases etc
They are law abiding, and some actively work to ruin peoples' lives for personal gain.
I have met some people that are good at heart and would never victimize another person or thier property, support and take care of thier family, that occasionaly do something illegal that is relatively minor and victimizes nobody.
They are criminals who are not law abiding. No if ands or buts, they have chosen to not abide by the law.

Someone that has never harmed another person, or deprived anyone of property, on thier way to volunteer at thier local charity after choir practice lets out who willfully chooses to jaywalk across the street while knowing it is illegal is not a law abiding person.


So don't confuse your terms. A law abiding citizen cannot willfuly break the law and go to prison, or they would not be a law abiding citizen.

Check here and see if you can find any report of a similar situationhttp://wdt.net/ They cover all the news from around Fort Drum.
If a soldier got arrested for a gun charge you can bet its in there. Unfortunately I couldn't find a report that fit the OPs post.

I found this on the NYS Police website....

FAQs - Relocating to another state or county
Q - How does the law apply to licensed individuals from other states who move to New York and wish to posses their handguns here?
New York State currently has no reciprocal agreements with any other states and does not recognize any other state's licenses. It would be unlawful for an individual to move to New York State and possess handguns in the state without first being licensed by the county in which the individual will reside.

There are two options for individuals already in possession of handguns in their home state.

They must either leave the weapons in the possession of an individual in their home state who may lawfully possess them until such time as the owner can legally possess them in New York State, or
They may leave them in the possession of a licensed gun dealer in their home state who would be willing to hold them until that individual can lawfully possess them in New York State.
In either case, the weapons can only be lawfully brought into New York State via a licensed dealer in the home state shipping them to a licensed dealer in New York State from whom the owner may take possession.

Weapons personally brought into New York by the owner would result in forfeiture of the weapon and possible criminal charges brought against the owner.

Q - If a licensee was issued a renewable pistol permit and then relocates to a county where pistol permits are issued "good until revoked," does the pistol permit automatically become "good until revoked" upon transferring it to the new county?
No. While the Penal Law does provide for the transfer of licenses from one county to another, it does not permit the changing of the expiration date of the license when one has been assigned.

The license may be transferred and will remain in full effect until the expiration date has been reached. At that time the individual will become unlicensed, unless application has been made with the appropriate licensing authorities for a new "good until revoked" license.

So don't confuse your terms. A law abiding citizen cannot willfuly break the law and go to prison, or they would not be a law abiding citizen.

Click to expand...

They can if they break an unlawful "law". Firearms are not a crime. Property is not a crime.

All law can be summarized in but two words: no stealing. It's exactly that simple.

Examine this case as reported based upon the natural law (or for the more devout, God's law, "Thou Shall Not Steal") and it is a simple matter to resolve who is breaking the law. One man stored his own firearms in a secure domicile. Another party broke and entered and stole that property and proceeded to falsely arrest him for his exercising his rights to own property and firearms. Governments love to declare citizens to be criminals and blame their victims for the real crimes perpetrated by the government. Once the people believe the government is the source and sole judge of what the law is then you can get away with any crime - if you control the government.

This is an example of a tyranny much worse than most suffered by the Americans before the Revolutionary War. It is an unacceptable violation of the purpose, principles, spirit, letter, and function of the law and we should not sanction it nor feed it nor grant it any power by assigning the powerful words of "the law" to such a wretched oppression of a human being.

Haze said:

They must either leave the weapons in the possession of an individual in their home state who may lawfully possess them until such time as the owner can legally possess them in New York State, or They may leave them in the possession of a licensed gun dealer in their home state who would be willing to hold them until that individual can lawfully possess them in New York State.
In either case, the weapons can only be lawfully brought into New York State via a licensed dealer in the home state shipping them to a licensed dealer in New York State from whom the owner may take possession. Weapons personally brought into New York by the owner would result in forfeiture of the weapon and possible criminal charges brought against the owner.

Click to expand...

Good find. I have checked the State Police website before for info on licensing and found it less than helpful, so I am glad it had useful information this time. Guess I was wrong about bringing them into the state and then turning them in. I could have sworn that there was something on my pistol license paperwork about a grace period to tun in firearms, but obviously I must be wrong if the State Police say otherwise. I'll poke around and see if I can find the paperwork somewhere.

Then again, the wording says:

"Weapons personally brought into New York by the owner would result in forfeiture of the weapon and possible criminal charges brought against the owner"

This could be something that is totally up to the police officer who is at the desk when you come in to turn in a weapon.

I think the grace period is for pistols that are already in NYS and the registered owner dies. The estate has I think 10 days to turn them in.

BTW I have lived in NY most of my life and it is a great place with great food and natural beauty. Unfortunately, its a political cesspool. Between the high taxes, the gun laws and the nanny statism after 45 years i can't wait to the hell out of here.

Long story short - tell your friend to talk to a good lawyer, like, yesterday.

Overall - it sounds like there's more to this story then what you or your friend know. Cops don't just randomly raid houses full on like that. Were any other houses "raided"? Was anybody else rounded up outside of that house? Any other suspects? Any other guns confiscated?

He leaves unregistered guns from out of state (big no no #1) guns at his friends house (big no no #2) and a couple days later when he's not around, there just HAPPENS to be shots fired in the area, and the cops just HAPPEN to have enough reason to believe there's someone from that house involved in some way to barge in and start looking around.

Yea - to think there's NOT more to this story is naive to n'th degree.

Ok soo me and my friend "J" are from Tx, been around firearms all of our lives and both joined the military at the same time. I went to Ky and he went to NY. Anyways, I'm out now, he was stopped lossed to do a 2nd tour of Iraq which he had no fuss about, went back, and just came back a couple weeks ago. When people get back from a war what do they all want? Guns! His parents brought up 2 of his pistols to show his friends. Well they left and J left the pistols at his friends house OFF of the military post. He had them there for 4 days when some idiot drove by, and fired a shot near the area he had his pistols at. The swat team raided the house and took possession of the pistols threatening the friend with felony charges on discharging a firearm in city limits. They took J in and let him go 5 hours later, come to find out it wasn't either of his pistols that were fired so basically they did an illegal search&seizure, and also made 2 wrongful arrests. But, they are now bringing charges up on J saying that since he doesn't have the permit for the firearms then he will be charged with a felony. Is anyone familiar with the gun laws of NY? I read that for pistols you MUST have a permit but is there like a 10 day grace period to get them registered? He had them there 4 days before they took them. Idk, I think it's pretty pathetic that a man joined the military, was put in a ****hole like NY, became a sgt, did his 2nd stoplossed tour of Iraq without bitching, and then brought a couple pistols up to NY to show his friends the pro's and con's and is being brought up on felony charges, maybe even a dishonorable discharge out of the military. if anyone knows anything hit me up.

Click to expand...

Maybe now he will wake up and realize that he's actually the one who needs to be defended from his own government and discover that he is but a pawn... PWNT!

also - just a point of order to be made...
Just because the shots weren't fired from those pistols - has zero bearing on whether or not the search was legal. Did they have a warrant? Did they have probable cause to believe that someone in the house was involved? If so on either one - your "illegal search and seizure and two wrongful arrests" statement doesn't hold any water.

Illegal search and seizure would be if there was no shooting in the area, and they just randomly rolled up on this house and busted the door in for no reason, found guns - and made an arrest.
Wrongful arrest would be if they arrested the wrong person, KNOWING they were arresting the wrong person.

If they had reason enough to believe someone inside the house was involved to do a search, then when they find the guns - they would inherently have reason to believe those guns were used. They have no way of knowing otherwise until further evidence is gathered, but at that time, expect an arrest.

I understand it sucks, but we should really be careful about jumping up and down at cops trying to do their jobs. Does the law suck? Sure. Is your friend in a crappy situation, sure. Jumping up and down and crying foul when there's clearly more going on then a 2nd hand account on the internet allows for is irrational, and makes us look like crazy gun nuts.

Watertown Paper

3rd Battalion soldier still in jail after police standoff
SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 2008
ARTICLE OPTIONS
A A A The man still being held Saturday night at the Metro-Jefferson Public Safety Building for involvement in a standoff with police is a staff sergeant with the 3rd Battalion, 85th Mountain Infantry, Fort Drum Warrior Transition Unit, according to post officials.

Staff Sgt. XXXXXXXXXXXXX was deployed to Iraq from August 2005 to July 2006. He is from Lubbock, Texas.

He was arrested Wednesday following a three-hour standoff with police at his Arsenal Street apartment. Police later found two unlicensed semiautomatic pistols and an ammunition magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds in his apartment.

On Wednesday, Watertown City Judge James C. Harberson ordered that Sgt. Dickson be held at the jail on $40,000 cash bail and $400,000 bond.


I don't know if this is the same story but if it is this Sgt. bought himself a world of hurt.
If its an innocent mistake its to bad these soldiers don't check into the laws of the states in which they are based especially when comming from fairly free states to those like New York,
My own kid got lucky and got the evil stuff out of the state before he was caught. They have to have a clue as to the severity of these infractions, on base guns are restricted more than anyplace in the country.
I hope all works out for him but he is at the mercy of the state of NY not the Army. Hope they don't want to make an example of him.

Sounds pretty similar, I must say. Watertown isn't that big a place - it seems odd that TWO such incidents would happen simultaneously. OP didn't mention anything about a three-hour standoff with police, but that is a better explanation as to why the police did such a thorough search of the house.

So, yeah, the final message of all of this is: know the laws of the state you're in, and don't break them.

Lawyer up.

ummm.

wait.

really?

Am I the only one who thinks perhaps there's a LOT more to this story, after reading this:

He was arrested Wednesday following a three-hour standoff with police at his Arsenal Street apartment. Police later found two unlicensed semiautomatic pistols and an ammunition magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds in his apartment.

Click to expand...

A stupid misunderstanding of the law, or some sort of "innocent mistake" doesn't result in a "3 hour standoff".
Let's get real for a minute here people.

And suddenly every poster here learned what cops deal with every day. The "innocent" person may not be so innocent after all.

He was arrested Wednesday following a three-hour standoff with police at his Arsenal Street apartment. Police later found two unlicensed semiautomatic pistols and an ammunition magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds in his apartment.

Click to expand...

I have no idea waht caused the standoff, but if he had been in Arizona having two unlicensed semiautomatic pistols and a over-10 round magazine wouldn't have lifted an eyebrow. So far as the pistols being licensed, gun registration is against the law, and there are no restrictions on magazine capacity.

But New York is well.... New York. I wouldn't go one step into the place. My attitude extends to other locations like New Jersey, Massachusetts, California, Maryland, or cities such as Chicago or Washington D.C. The Sgt. had no choice because the Army assigned him there. On the other hand I do, and I will not reside in any place where people simply exsist, rather then live free. He may be in deep trouble, but I wish him luck. He put his life on the line to protect us all, and frankly - New York isn't worth the effort.