Makarovs Anyone?
- Thread starter Olympus
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I got my East German Mak about 15 years ago and have not had any problems with it. Very nice,very happy. I just got a Polish [mak.] P-64. The trigger is really hard. It takes almost two hands to pull it back. Well maybe not quite but I do need to look at it and get that taken care of. It's still alot harder than my East Ger.trigger. My opinion...get a true Mak. Good luck.
Mak
I have a Russian Mak and its absolutely reliable. When they were a hundred bucks; I wish I'd bought more of them. Fit/finish on the Germans is the best. The problem now is that prices have risen to $300 and up so there's a lot of competition out there. Not a lot of choices re ammo either especially compared to 9mm (9x19). BTW you can get a Sig P6 for $300.
I have a Russian Mak and its absolutely reliable. When they were a hundred bucks; I wish I'd bought more of them. Fit/finish on the Germans is the best. The problem now is that prices have risen to $300 and up so there's a lot of competition out there. Not a lot of choices re ammo either especially compared to 9mm (9x19). BTW you can get a Sig P6 for $300.
bluetopper
Member
True Makarovs can't be beat for reliability and accuracy for a pistol its size. I was big in to them several years ago when prices for them were great and have owned and sold many from each country they were manufactured except China.
My interests have moved elsewhere but I still have a few stashed in discreet places around the house and in my pickup.
The East German Mak pictured is used courtesy of user and my good friend North Bender, currently serving all of us in Afghanistan.
My interests have moved elsewhere but I still have a few stashed in discreet places around the house and in my pickup.
The East German Mak pictured is used courtesy of user and my good friend North Bender, currently serving all of us in Afghanistan.
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ZombiesAhead
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I've carried a friend's Polish "Makarov" in 9x18 and would rather carry it any day than my Glock 19 or CZ-75. The tiny size is great and the gun never fails.
mercop
Member.
Loving the G19 and the CZ75 I am not sure I would go that far. Except for maybe price the Mak doesn't have much on these guns.
Randyc74
Member
I have the Russian Commercial IJ70 that I purchased for $150.00 in 1997. It's not the best looking pistol I own, but it has never failed. I'm also set up to reload if I decide to start shooting it again. Right now it sits in my safe and is only used to make holsters.
I've carried my Bulgarian Makarov quite a bit. I think you would be served very well by it. It is a LOT smaller and easier to carry than a 1911. There are smaller and lighter guns of better caliber but none that have an advantage in reliability. They go bang all the time and they are very accurate and, for me, one of the easiest guns to shoot really fast. I don't worry about the stopping power of the 9x18 when I can likely drop 3-4 round into the black in a hurry.
denfoote
Member
Makarov.
I have, at least, one Makarov from every country that made them, including a couple of commercial variants.
My carry Mak is a commercial Bulgarian made by the Arsenal factory.
It's stone cold reliable.
Pistolet Makarova is the AK-47 of the pistol world!!
I have, at least, one Makarov from every country that made them, including a couple of commercial variants.
My carry Mak is a commercial Bulgarian made by the Arsenal factory.
It's stone cold reliable.
Pistolet Makarova is the AK-47 of the pistol world!!
I picked up a Bulgarian a while back for $250, it was the only one that I had seen in this area. Runs great & I can shoot it well. I wish that the old prices would come back because theses are realy good guns. I just found another Bulgarian that was a little beat up for $175, I said I'll take it. I just ran 100 rounds through it last week and again , balls out accurate , not a hiccup. I do want more! I have no problem carrying these waepons for self defense and I have 38's, 9's & 357's.
coney_hatch
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- Apr 20, 2008
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Forgot to post pics of my CZ-82 & Bulgarian Arsenal Mak:
I own four Makarovs. One Russian, two Bulgarian, and one East German.
They are great self defense weapons. What matters is ammo... the best, in my opinion, is Gold Dot or the older Silver Bear hollow points. Why? Because first off, two myths need to be dispelled:
1. Yes, it is a blow back pistol. That means the weight of the slide and the recoil spring, as well as the seal of the case to the chamber during firing (friction), slows the opening of the action until pressure drops. The Makarov is heavier, yes- and it also has a heavier slide, and- within reason- higher pressure loads create a tighter seal on the chamber, increasing friction and delaying action opening.
2. The 9x18 is more powerful than the .380. Most .380 loads get around 200 ft/lbs. of muzzle energy. The 9x18 loads (the Silver Bear loads, especially) can get close to 280 + ft/lbs. of energy (115gr. hollow point Silver Bear loads, which are pretty much +P+, good for carry, but no longer sold). The MFS Hungarian +P ammo clocked at 225 ft/lbs. of energy, but it is still not the most powerful out there.
EDIT: The Corbon stuff, also discontinued, gets 280 ft/lbs. of energy for a 95gr. HP. Like I said, there are options out there.
Aside from that, the Makarov is retard proof. The finish varies by weapon, some suck, some rock. But it is retard proof. They work. They have a heel mag release, which is less likely to get accidentally hit while carrying and drop the mag, and they have a decock as well as a safety so you can carry hot but DA, or hot but safe, or just hot on SA (I don't recommend that, of course).
There are better guns out there, but for the price, Makarovs are great options. And as far as "minimum power"... if you get shot in the face with a Makarov, my bet is, you won't be so hot about robbing or raping the person you were initially after. This goes with anything from the 9x18, up to the .50 AE. Shot placement is key. A 9x18 to the chest is also likely very effective. Speculation on my part, of course, but I don't know of anyone who enjoys being shot.
They are great self defense weapons. What matters is ammo... the best, in my opinion, is Gold Dot or the older Silver Bear hollow points. Why? Because first off, two myths need to be dispelled:
1. Yes, it is a blow back pistol. That means the weight of the slide and the recoil spring, as well as the seal of the case to the chamber during firing (friction), slows the opening of the action until pressure drops. The Makarov is heavier, yes- and it also has a heavier slide, and- within reason- higher pressure loads create a tighter seal on the chamber, increasing friction and delaying action opening.
2. The 9x18 is more powerful than the .380. Most .380 loads get around 200 ft/lbs. of muzzle energy. The 9x18 loads (the Silver Bear loads, especially) can get close to 280 + ft/lbs. of energy (115gr. hollow point Silver Bear loads, which are pretty much +P+, good for carry, but no longer sold). The MFS Hungarian +P ammo clocked at 225 ft/lbs. of energy, but it is still not the most powerful out there.
EDIT: The Corbon stuff, also discontinued, gets 280 ft/lbs. of energy for a 95gr. HP. Like I said, there are options out there.
Aside from that, the Makarov is retard proof. The finish varies by weapon, some suck, some rock. But it is retard proof. They work. They have a heel mag release, which is less likely to get accidentally hit while carrying and drop the mag, and they have a decock as well as a safety so you can carry hot but DA, or hot but safe, or just hot on SA (I don't recommend that, of course).
There are better guns out there, but for the price, Makarovs are great options. And as far as "minimum power"... if you get shot in the face with a Makarov, my bet is, you won't be so hot about robbing or raping the person you were initially after. This goes with anything from the 9x18, up to the .50 AE. Shot placement is key. A 9x18 to the chest is also likely very effective. Speculation on my part, of course, but I don't know of anyone who enjoys being shot.
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JR47
Member
Being shot in the face with a .22 Short, from a Beretta 950Bs would have much the same effect.
In all of the tests, the heavy-weight loads averaged between 225-234 ft/lbs. As the available CorBon SD38090 gives you 220ft/lbs, that's not exactly a huge gain.
The Makarov is 6.34" in length, weighs 25.74 oz., and holds 8 rounds in the magazine.
The Kel-Tec P3AT is 5.2" in length, weighs 8.3 oz., and holds 6 rounds.
The Ruger LCP is 5.16" long, weighs 9.4 oz., and also holds six in the magazine.
The Kel-Tec PF-9 is 5.875" long, weighs 14.5 oz., and holds 7 rounds of 9x19 ammunition in the magazine.
The Kahr P-9 is 5.8" long, weighs 15.0 oz., and also holds 7 rounds of 9mm Pammo in the magazine.
My point was that the Makarov CAN be used for self-defense, but is marginal in size and power, according to many. SEVERAL other guns are available that are as cheap to buy, as powerful, and lighter and smaller. Several others are available that are definitely more powerful, but lighter and smaller, but more expensive.
It is, after all, your choice. However, there's nothing magical about the 9x18 cartridge, or the gun that it goes into. It was a different choice, made by a vastly different thought process, a long time ago.
Tghis page lists most of the available, at the time, 9x18 ammo.
In all of the tests, the heavy-weight loads averaged between 225-234 ft/lbs. As the available CorBon SD38090 gives you 220ft/lbs, that's not exactly a huge gain.
The Makarov is 6.34" in length, weighs 25.74 oz., and holds 8 rounds in the magazine.
The Kel-Tec P3AT is 5.2" in length, weighs 8.3 oz., and holds 6 rounds.
The Ruger LCP is 5.16" long, weighs 9.4 oz., and also holds six in the magazine.
The Kel-Tec PF-9 is 5.875" long, weighs 14.5 oz., and holds 7 rounds of 9x19 ammunition in the magazine.
The Kahr P-9 is 5.8" long, weighs 15.0 oz., and also holds 7 rounds of 9mm Pammo in the magazine.
My point was that the Makarov CAN be used for self-defense, but is marginal in size and power, according to many. SEVERAL other guns are available that are as cheap to buy, as powerful, and lighter and smaller. Several others are available that are definitely more powerful, but lighter and smaller, but more expensive.
It is, after all, your choice. However, there's nothing magical about the 9x18 cartridge, or the gun that it goes into. It was a different choice, made by a vastly different thought process, a long time ago.
krs
Member
You're just pissed that you didn't buy any for $79.95 when they flooded the C&R market, JR.
QGunner, I still have 15 boxes of the "The 9x18 loads (the Silver Bear loads, especially) can get close to 280 + ft/lbs. of energy (115gr. hollow point Silver Bear loads"
you mentioned, but also have a bunch of 120 gr silver Bears, and thought all Silver Bears were of the same two characteristics until I saw someone post about a 110 gr HP Silver Bear. When I asked that poster about the difference he never answered. I seldom drag out any of my 9x18 Mak guns these days and have a stock of ammo from several years ago. Brown Bears, Silver Bears and bloc surplus, some of which is still in the sardine cans of odd numbered amounts like 480 rounds, 720 rds, ...things like that that used to make me think that they counted using something other than our numeric system
Anyway, thanks for clearing up part of the Silver Bear discrepancy.
Hmmm:Manufacturer: RBCD Performance Plus Ammunition, San Antonio, TX
Headstamp: *-* 9x18 MAK
Cartridge Case: Brass Case (Starline), boxer primed, non-corrosive
Bullet: 39.2-gr (1 measured), lead-filled or coated tip, convex (bulged) copper-coated base
Magnetic:No
OAL (ins) (5 rounds)
Range: 0.940 – 0.946
Avg: 0.943
Velocity: (fps)
Velocity (fps): 1671, 1661, 1558, 1640
Avg: (1512)
now THAT sounds interesting...
QGunner, I still have 15 boxes of the "The 9x18 loads (the Silver Bear loads, especially) can get close to 280 + ft/lbs. of energy (115gr. hollow point Silver Bear loads"
you mentioned, but also have a bunch of 120 gr silver Bears, and thought all Silver Bears were of the same two characteristics until I saw someone post about a 110 gr HP Silver Bear. When I asked that poster about the difference he never answered. I seldom drag out any of my 9x18 Mak guns these days and have a stock of ammo from several years ago. Brown Bears, Silver Bears and bloc surplus, some of which is still in the sardine cans of odd numbered amounts like 480 rounds, 720 rds, ...things like that that used to make me think that they counted using something other than our numeric system
Anyway, thanks for clearing up part of the Silver Bear discrepancy.
Hmmm:Manufacturer: RBCD Performance Plus Ammunition, San Antonio, TX
Headstamp: *-* 9x18 MAK
Cartridge Case: Brass Case (Starline), boxer primed, non-corrosive
Bullet: 39.2-gr (1 measured), lead-filled or coated tip, convex (bulged) copper-coated base
Magnetic:No
OAL (ins) (5 rounds)
Range: 0.940 – 0.946
Avg: 0.943
Velocity: (fps)
Velocity (fps): 1671, 1661, 1558, 1640
Avg: (1512)
now THAT sounds interesting...
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JR47
Member
Actually, I bought an East German for just under $100.00, and a new in the box Russian IJ-70 for $89.00. I'm quite fond of the E. German pistol, but I wouldn't spend the $300.00 that one costs today to CCW it. I'd spend much less for a smaller. lighter, Kel-Tec P3AT, or a PF-9.
I put Pearce grips on both Makarovs. The crappy import special thumb-rest grips that they had on them aren't for left-handed people.
I put Pearce grips on both Makarovs. The crappy import special thumb-rest grips that they had on them aren't for left-handed people.
Actually, you are not correct on that.
.22 LR, .22 Short and .25 ACP all actually can ricochet off of the facial bones... their energy is easily redirected, moreso than the 9x18. They also have far less penetration, far less expansion and a smaller bullet diameter.
The Makarov is far more controllable and accurate than the other options you listed. I own a PF-9 as well. 8 rounds of 9mm in 1/3 the weight sounds nice. But then add in the extra recoil, the fact the mag catch can be accidentally hit when carrying close to the body, how hard it is to keep the sights on the target with rapid fire, the noise and muzzle flash that is blinding in low light... the fact is, you don't get something for nothing. The PF-9 also will not hold up to high volume shooting as long as the Makarov will. I've shot both at night, it is a big deal.
For anyone who is interested, there is also a "Corbon" Pow'rball load, currently made, with a 70 gr. bullet (polymer tipped hollow point to offer penetration and expansion) offering 294 ft/lbs. of energy. The weakest self defense load I know of offered is Hornady, at 221 ft/lbs. for a 95gr. hollow point. Then there are Brown Bear hollow points which, depending on the type, can push 260 ft/lbs.
The Makarov will do serious damage with the right loads. It is significantly more powerful than the .380, that is a fact. It is accurate, it is controllable, and if you are more anal about the finish on your gun than your own life... well, fine, go buy something else.
My point is not to say that the Makarov is the best self defense pistol ever, because that is subjective. But it is a very viable defensive weapon. It is more powerful than people think, accurate and reliable, and simple. If you don't like that, fine. Go buy something else.
.22 LR, .22 Short and .25 ACP all actually can ricochet off of the facial bones... their energy is easily redirected, moreso than the 9x18. They also have far less penetration, far less expansion and a smaller bullet diameter.
The Makarov is far more controllable and accurate than the other options you listed. I own a PF-9 as well. 8 rounds of 9mm in 1/3 the weight sounds nice. But then add in the extra recoil, the fact the mag catch can be accidentally hit when carrying close to the body, how hard it is to keep the sights on the target with rapid fire, the noise and muzzle flash that is blinding in low light... the fact is, you don't get something for nothing. The PF-9 also will not hold up to high volume shooting as long as the Makarov will. I've shot both at night, it is a big deal.
For anyone who is interested, there is also a "Corbon" Pow'rball load, currently made, with a 70 gr. bullet (polymer tipped hollow point to offer penetration and expansion) offering 294 ft/lbs. of energy. The weakest self defense load I know of offered is Hornady, at 221 ft/lbs. for a 95gr. hollow point. Then there are Brown Bear hollow points which, depending on the type, can push 260 ft/lbs.
The Makarov will do serious damage with the right loads. It is significantly more powerful than the .380, that is a fact. It is accurate, it is controllable, and if you are more anal about the finish on your gun than your own life... well, fine, go buy something else.
My point is not to say that the Makarov is the best self defense pistol ever, because that is subjective. But it is a very viable defensive weapon. It is more powerful than people think, accurate and reliable, and simple. If you don't like that, fine. Go buy something else.
i have shot an idpa side match for pocket pistols
with an east german makarov. it showed itself very well. even in my halfassed hands. i have a milt sparks summer special for my mak, and have carried it.
i never ever felt undergunned with it.
with an east german makarov. it showed itself very well. even in my halfassed hands. i have a milt sparks summer special for my mak, and have carried it.
i never ever felt undergunned with it.
Your bias is showing. Your comparisions that prove the Mak is inferior to these other pistols are valid *only* if you prefer lighter guns guns for defensive use.
For me, I prefer my guns to be slightly heavy for their caliber. That makes them easier to shoot. I can shoot my Makarov better then a Ruger LCP or a Kel Tec. I know, because I tried them both.
I'll give the Kel Tec 9 the nod for power, but not for reliability. I've never been impressed with the reliability of any of the KT's that have come through my CCW classes.
Now here is a valid argument. The Kahr is a quality pistol and fires a more powerful round then the Makarov. It's still a little light for my taste, but it is a valid comparision.
Yeah, I can see a Kahr being a "Makarov killer," in everything but the price.
Thor Bloodax
Member
Feg pa-63
My PA-63 is absolutely reliable, and very accurate. Recoil is stiff since the pistol is so light. Trigger is fine and very crisp. I have seen one which felt lke sand was in the trigger mechanism but not mine. I usually carry mine in a belly band holster when I need to be more discrete about being made. Very happy with mine.
My PA-63 is absolutely reliable, and very accurate. Recoil is stiff since the pistol is so light. Trigger is fine and very crisp. I have seen one which felt lke sand was in the trigger mechanism but not mine. I usually carry mine in a belly band holster when I need to be more discrete about being made. Very happy with mine.
Recoil with the PA-63 is also heavy because it has a poor recoil spring in it... The factory recoil spring is far too light, the factory hammer spring is far too heavy (ironically).
I went to Wolff and put their heaviest recoil spring in my PA-63, and then one of their mid-strength hammer springs. The result? A DA trigger pull you can use, far more manageable recoil, and higher round count life since the slide won't beat the crap out of the alloy frame.
I went to Wolff and put their heaviest recoil spring in my PA-63, and then one of their mid-strength hammer springs. The result? A DA trigger pull you can use, far more manageable recoil, and higher round count life since the slide won't beat the crap out of the alloy frame.
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