gun for IDPA, or IPSC

what division do you want to shoot in? I don't know anything about IDPA, but in USPSA (USA IPSC), production division is limited to 10 rounds in any magazine after the start signal. Or you could shoot limited and use the full magazine capacity, but you'll be competing against all the guys with hi cap 2011s, which are basically open guns without the optics.

Do you reload? The longer barrel will give you a longer sight radius, thoeretically more weight (a good thing for recoil) and should allow you to develop higher pressures and thus higher velocity if you are handloading to make minor power factor. So my vote for USPSA would be for the 5 inch tactical, but that doesn't sound like a good carry gun. I'm not sure of that is a good gun for IDPA.... Is there a box in IDPA?

I would think that the XDM's 19+1 would make a great limited gun, but I'd think that you'd want to do a trigger job.

They'll all work.

If you want to compete in IDPA SSP and USPSA production, any will do, but you'll be happiest with the full grip and five inch barrel.

It doesn't matter that the magazines hold more than 10, you can just download them.

You need mag pouches to hold at least four magazines for USPSA.

Now those are the easiest categories to compete in and buy equipment for.

As pointed out, if you want to be able to load your mags up, you can shoot USPSA limited. There is no IDPA category where you can do that.

Waaait a minute....

You have to have only 10 rounds in a mag for production?

Aw hell.... >_>

Production Divison was set up during the AWB years and USPSA decided they might should not suborn a Federal felony as they had been doing in Open and Limited.

Just a technical point: The XD will not compete in SSP -- that's Stock Service Pistol -- division in IDPA. The powers that be consider the lockwork of an XD to be a type of single-action mechanism rather than a double-action, so it is ineligible to compete in SSP. (Though, the Glock and M&P actions are in SSP -- which is a big debate point, but the ruling stands...)

All that means is that you would shoot in ESP, or Enhanced Service Pistol. You will be in the same class as the guys shooting 1911 models chambered in 9mm and .40 S&W. That does sort of put you at a disadvantage, but not a major one.

Since (in both IDPA and USPSA/IPSC) you will be classified by ability, you only compete against folks of approximately your own skill level, which gives you some milestones to aim for as your skills improve, and the occasional chance to win something.

This is all stuff that the good folks running your local matches will be very happy to explain to you when you show up to shoot. Tell them you're new, ask for guidance, and remember that no one is going to be impressed with ANYTHING except how SAFE you can be.

Good luck and have fun!

-Sam

Have you considered?

Hi again,

Just another thought: You mentioned that you aren't a Glock fan and didn't like the grip grooves of the xDM.

Have you tried the new S&W M&P? A LOT of shooters in the gun games are flocking to the M&P. It really looks like S&W did their homework and made quite a shootable gun. The fastest shooter I know (a name most east coast IDPA competitors would recognize) retired his Glocks after Nationals this year to switch to M&Ps.

I don't own one, but I might just have to bite that bullet sooner or later. Around me, the IDPA world is turning into the M&P show.

Don't buy an xD until you've proved that you like them better than the M&P.

-Sam

The regular XD doesn't have those big silly grip grooves. And Powder River makes a great, drop in trigger kit..

i have no clue the rules.

Click to expand...

Step 1. Find out what is shot in your area. I see more opportunity for IDPA around here but there are places where USPSA/IPSC is more popular. Internet Debates about which is "best" don't mean much if there is no choice. And if there is a choice one or the other individual club might be more welcomng to new shooters.

Step 2. Get a clue. It is tough to learn the rules one penalty at a time.
Rules are on the organizations' websites www.idpa.com and www.uspsa.org (There is very little true IPSC shot in the United States, USPSA is well on its way to a separate game. Think NFL vs Canadian football.)
I like the introduction to IDPA at:
http://caps-idpa.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/CAPS_New_Shooters_Manual.79123937.doc
Maybe somebody can find you one on IPSC.

USPSA is more popular thab IDPA where I live. Don't worry too much about gaming it. Get or use the pistol which fits you best. I am the oddity. The only guy shooting a basically stock CZ 75B. I altered the magazine break so my mags drop free. I outshoot a lot of people with their glocks. My fiance shoots best with a glock, not bashing them. Just saying, don't assume you have to buy plastic or 1911 to go have fun and compete.

Just a technical point: The XD will not compete in SSP -- that's Stock Service Pistol -- division in IDPA. The powers that be consider the lockwork of an XD to be a type of single-action mechanism rather than a double-action, so it is ineligible to compete in SSP

Click to expand...

just to be clear, the action is classified by the government, not IDPA.

IDPA basically says anything classified a certain way by the government does not qualify for SSP. They did not make a rule that excluded XDs.

As far as IDPA goes, you can use 9mm XD in the "ESP" class. Some do not like this because ESP also allows a 9mm 1911 style pistol. For reasons that may not be important, some feel they are at an disadvantage using a XD in ESP.

Another option, get the XD in a .45 ACP. That gun can be used in CDP (which is reserved for .45 ACP) and ESP.

If I was buying now I'd give the M&Ps a hard look.

some feel they are at an disadvantage using a XD in ESP

Click to expand...

Yup. Of course, to carry this to an extreme, CDP division can be shot with other platform .45ACP guns aside from the venerable 1911. Now who would bother to try to compete in CDP with something other than a 1911?


Well, for one, Dave Olhasso, who won CDP Champion at Nationals this year with a .45 ACP S&W M&P downloaded to 8+1. Of course, I watched him toss off an extra shot on my stage that forced an unnecessary reload, but it sure didn't hurt him in the end.

As they say, "It's the indian, not the (ballistic tupperware) arrows!"

-Sam

(Didn't know that the government's action classification was how IDPA made their ruling. Odd, but good to know!)

UPSA wasn't listening to the government, they will let you shoot an XD in Production.

It wasn't the government or the IDPA rulemakers that declared the XD a single action gun, it was Springfield.

Actually it was the original importer before Springfield got into the act, and they told the Justice Department, which has carried the classification through and made it "official." Shortsighted, it cost them a lot of opportunites for cop contracts. S&W did not make the same mistake with the Plastic M&P.

I shoot a XD9 Tactical in the IDPA and do well with it. I don't feel I am at a disadvantage against the 1911's. I think I have an advantage. I can start with 10+1 were 1911's are 9+1 and I don't have any safty to fumble with. As long as you get the trigger worked on you will be good. As far as the div., ESP only. Yes, you can shoot a 1911 45 in the CDP and ESP but you will be at a disavantage because of the mag. capacity and the increase in recoil. Even if you use an XD45 you will still be shooting against 9mm's. Even a 40 cal. is a hotter round than the 9mm. (Good for CCW not a game gun) I did this but with a CZ 97b and not only I shot in the CDP and ESP div. but I could also shoot in the SSP div. It can also be used for USPSA in the Limited, Limited 10 and the Production div. The CZ 97b is a DA firearm and will carry 10+1. The bad thing is it is a big gun and need big hand to do well with it. Also you would have to remove the magazine brake from it so that the mags. fall out. As far as the XD9 in the USPSA, Limited and Limited 10 div. By the way, if you get serious about this sport, you will need to think about reloading. But work on your game gun first.
I hope this helps.

I shoot a XD9 Tactical in the IDPA and do well with it. I don't feel I am at a disadvantage against the 1911's. I think I have an advantage. I can start with 10+1 were 1911's are 9+1 and I don't have any safty to fumble with.

Click to expand...

To be more clear, if you are shooting against 9mm or .40 S&W 1911s in ESP division, they'll be using 10 round mags, too, so they have the same 10+1 starting point you do. Not sure who would have to use 9 round mags. In CDP you're limited to 8 rounders for a 8+1 starting capacity.

Yes, you can shoot a 1911 45 in the CDP and ESP but you will be at a disavantage because of the mag. capacity and the increase in recoil. Even if you use an XD45 you will still be shooting against 9mm's.

Click to expand...

Uhhh... not sure what you're getting at, here. You cannot be at a disadvantage with a 1911 in CDP. The mag capacity for CDP is limited to 8 rds as I said, so if you're shooting something else -- like a .45 ACP M&P or XD, it will be downloaded to 8+1, no exceptions. Also, no, you won't be shooting against 9mm guns. CDP is specifically limited to .45ACP guns, period. If you shoot in ESP then yes, there are 9mm and .40 xDs and S&Ws...but there are LOTS of 9mm and .40 1911s, too.

Even a 40 cal. is a hotter round than the 9mm. (Good for CCW not a game gun) I did this but with a CZ 97b and not only I shot in the CDP and ESP div. but I could also shoot in the SSP div.

Click to expand...

Woah...major misinformation! You cannot shoot a .40 S&W gun in CDP. At all, ever.

I might be misunderstanding what you were saying, or maybe your fingers were typing faster than you could recall what the rulebook says, but these are fairly significant points if you want to understand how the game is played.

-Sam

I'm just getting into USPSA and just use my XD subcompact 9mm (has a Springer Precision combat carry trigger job). Although i'm not all that concerned about competing against other people. My goal is to just get better as time goes. I use my XDsc because that's what I carry....I also have an EAA Witness Elite Match .45 but I want to get as good as possible at reloading, quick target acquisition, double taps, etc with the gun i trust my life to.

Is there a reason why there are two different matches?I still dont understand the difference between the two

Click to expand...

Do you mean what are the differences between IDPA and USPSA/IPSC?

Basically it breaks down like this:

The International Practical Shooting Confederation (of which the US Practical Shooting Association is a part) is the older of the two and was formed to provide competition that involved more "realistic" shooting scenarios than did the old fashioned "bulls-eye" and PPC style matches. Over the years it has evolved a lot and it is most often viewed as a "pure game" wherein there are few concessions to "real life" situations. You run around a lot, face 15 or 20 "bad guys" at a time, carry often like 100 rounds on your person at the beginning of a stage, and (at least in Open division) use highly specialized (and mighty expensive) equipment like "race" guns that are compensated and feature large optical sighing systems like red-dot scopes. Some folks hold that IPSC has a slightly higher emphasis on speed than on accuracy. (You *can* miss fast enough to win ... sometimes.)

BUT, yes, there are divisions (Production, Limited, etc.) in which you can be plenty competative with off-the-shelf, "normal" guns and gear.

That kind of thing bugs some people who don't care to compete with a bunch of equipment that they would never, ever, have with them in any defensive type situation and who view a sidearm as an entirely defensive tool.

Some of those folks (Bill Wilson, of Wilson Combat, for one) decided to form an alternative shooting sport which aimed to be more "practical" and street-wise. The International Defensive Pistol Association's purpose is to provide competition using guns, holsters, and other gear that more closely fits with what an average guy with his CCW license might really carry with him day-to-day, and to make some attempt to promote some sound habits for staying more, you know, alive in a gun fight. To that end, there are no optical scopes allowed and no skeletonized rail hosters. Competitors must wear some kind of "cover garment" that does actually obscure the sidearm from view until it is drawn. No single string of fire can be more than 18 rounds and you are limited to carrying two spare magazines into each stage. Shots must be taken from positions of cover whenever possible, and reloads must be done behind cover as well. Etc., etc. Some folks say that IDPA has a higher empahsis on accuracy over speed (as in, you CAN'T miss fast enough to win ... usually).

If you try both you can get a feel for which you enjoy more, or you can just read the rule books of both sports and get an idea of which sport suits your shooting philosophy more closely.

Good luck!

-Sam

so many options. i think we all would buy 3 or 4 guns and see which one we like best but must of us dont have that much money lying around.

Click to expand...

Well, that's not neccessary, at all! You can do just fine for at least your first year or two with which ever middle-of-the-road "duty" or "defensive" pistol you like to shoot. You don't have to try every gun ever invented to find your "perfect" fit, because having the "perfect" gun isn't what gets you HITS. Practice, practice, practice with whatever reasonable, average gun you can get and your skills will grow faster than you'd belive.

Then, when you've got some serious experience under your belt, you might be in a position to legitimately evaluate where the equipment is holding you back.

Buy an xD, or an M&P, or a Glock, or a 1911, or a CZ, or a Baretta, or WHATEVER you like best. They all work fine and every one will suffice for the gun games. When you've shot your 5,000th round in competition, stop and re-evaluate your equipment. Chances are you'll have grown into that gun so well that you'll just say, "Yup, this works for me!" and keep right on rolling!

Don't stand on the edge forever looking for the perfect thing. It doesn't exist. Just pick something that appeals to you and GET STARTED!

-Sam

+1 for Sam. The fun is waiting. And you'll learn SO much about how your gun works (and doesn't) in the process