im officially curbing my gun spending - the economy

I curbed my gun buying months ago - but I didn't stop spending my "gun" money. I've been buying ammunition and reloading components instead of guns. A firearm without ammunition is merely a club...........

I'm not going to stop spending, I'm caught up in the guns and ammo area, I'm now moving on to stockpiling food and other consumables that will no longer be available in a few months when the US economy crashes....


DS

you think 18 MPG is high?!?!!?

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For a reasonably large-ish, well-built, comfortable 7-passenger AWD SUV, around town, yeah, and 25 mpg on the highway isn't exactly bad for the breed, either.

Granted, I could get much, much better mileage driving around in an upholstered roller-skate, but I already did my fair share of time in such cars. After a couple years of consideration and study we decided the smaller SUV/Crossover models just weren't large enough for our desires.

Once I'm retired and no longer commuting to work the only driving I'll be doing is for shopping and leisure.

Used Marlin 336s went for $175-$250 a year ago; now they are $300 to $400. And they're very very common - ALL guns are going up in value, and IMO will continue to do so. They are a good investment. Having said that, if you need liquidity, then by all means save your money.

leadcounsel and jad, you are 1000% right, and the politicians (almost all the Ds and a good chunk of the Rs) are lying to us about the effects of BK on the auto makers in order to get into your pocketbook and buy the votes of union workers with your money.

A word on the Big 3. Politicians and talking aheads are whining that if the auto companies don't get the $15 billion they are asking for (which they'd burn through in months, BTW, unless they make MAJOR changes) and declare banktrupcy, they would "colapse", "close down", etc. If declaring bankrupcy automatically meant closed doors, what would be the point? Just about every major airline has declared bankrupcy, and most of them are still around (some were bought out by other competitors). Some people lost their jobs, yes, but entire companies didn't vaporize just because they declared bankruptcy. Actually, I am one of those that think that banktrupcy could, in the long run, be a good thing for the automakers. Wipe the unsecured debt away, break the UAW and dealership contracts (GM as something like 5500 dealerships to Toyota's 1500 and they sell the same # of vehicles in the U.S.).

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Absolutely, + 54332543

the politicians (almost all the Ds and a good chunk of the Rs) are lying to us about the effects of BK on the auto makers in order to get into your pocketbook and buy the votes of union workers with your money.

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Right you are. I find myself in agreement with Dave Ramsey on Washington ... its about time we fired all of their sorry butts. Send 'em all home where they are less likely to harm anyone or screw anything up. God I wish we could get term limits on congress ... wishful thinking, but I can still wish.

Preferrably with corks on their forks .

2/3 of people surveyed said they wouldn't buy from a bankrupt company.

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Assuming that were true, with America's short term memory, 90% of those will have forgotten in 6 months anyway. Most Americans had forgotten the whole Korean War by the 1960s, sadly. Going back to the airline example, people still flew despite bankruptcies. Fedzilla is salivating at the opportunity to nationalize the auto industry, among others. So it is not surprising that we here such doom and gloom from the media, the 4th branch of government on a minute-by-freakin-minute basis.

As for guns as an investment, well, sure. If that is what makes you happy, why not? However, consider the following ... I am not certain what the average transaction price for a firearm 50 years ago was, and I'm not even certain what it is today. But just for kicks:

Average price 50 years ago: $50
Average price today: $700

Sounds like a good investment, right? $50 into $700 50 years later? Until you calculate the rate of return.

Past Value (aka present value) = $50
# of periods = 50
Period = 1 year
Current Value (aka future value) = $700
Average annual rate of return = 5.42%

The good new is that at least 5.42% beat the average annual inflation rate of 4.11% between Oct '58 and Oct '08, but not by much.

By comparison, the stock market average annual rate of return since it's inception is somewhere around 11 to 13%. Yes, it isn't doing good right now. And I would never buy single stocks. And if you aren't confortable buying something like mutual funds, don't. But looking at the low Price/Earnings ratios out there, the market is most definitely on sale right now.

That said, if the stock market scares the crap out of you, literally, then it is probably best to pass . Life is too short to worry everyday. For me, I love guns. I enjoy collecting and shooting them as much as any of us. But they are not a retirement plan, not for me anyway. I would run out of space long before I had enough guns to sell/retire on.

To me though, the saddest part of it all is not the current malaise itself, but the incessant negativity that a lot of people are experiencing. It is plainly obvious right here on THR. You may not agree with the man, but Rush is right on this point: Go to a library and see if you can find a book titled "Great Pessimists of Our Time", or "Doom and Gloom for a Fulfilling Life". Sure, things could certainly be better. But worrying about it won't do any good.





“I have never seen a monument erected to a pessimist” - Paul Harvey

Assuming that were true, with America's short term memory, 90% of those will have forgotten in 6 months anyway.

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You got that straight. It won't matter in a couple months. Once American Idol and Lost start, everyone will buy GM again. We have massive collective Alzheimer's as a nation. Bankruptcy won't hurt the auto industry nearly as much as it will help it.

Does anyone think there will be a new gun sale boom after January
20th?

The AVERAGE jap milage (by US measurement) is ~45

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Tell me where I can get these 45 MPG Japanese cars then, please.

It's not one of those "smart cars" is it?

Going back to the airline example, people still flew despite bankruptcies

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A car is a longterm investment, and people want warranty work on it. You do not expect warranty work for your flight.

Fedzilla is salivating at the opportunity to nationalize the auto industry

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That would be a very bad thing.

Can you imagine a car built by the federal government? It would have a sail, and solar panels.

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Texas politician, name unknown.

I got mixed feelings on this.

I will say for sure when I look at other big dollar expenditures, be it fancy speakers in a car, a new 32" flat screen, some whizbang food preperation device or a Dyson type supervaccuum...if you went to the pawnshop with any of them you'd likely get a dime on the dollar, but even in trying times guns seem to hold up well in value. Part of that is because in trying times, a gun's usefullness BEYOND it's resale value is a big part of it's value.

Does anyone think there will be a new gun sale boom after January
20th?

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Hard to say, we are in one now. January is typically the lousiest month of the year for consumer spending in general, as they just got done gorging their credit cards the month before :banghead: . Something tells me though that gun sales won't dip too much this January, especially at gunshows.

A car is a longterm investment, and people want warranty work on it. You do not expect warranty work for your flight.

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I do not mean to attack or insult you at all, don't take it that way one bit. But you may be right, which proves that most people do not know what bankruptcy really is. Bankruptcy is kinda like a painful do-over. Sure, it willl suck, but the Big 3 will most likely be around, albeit in a restructured, downsized form.

I talked to a friend who works in automotive. He's a service adviser at an import dealership. Basically sales are crippled, and there has been layoffs in the service department. Work is steady but nowhere near where it used to be because he is used to high-volume. He's worried. I'm worried for him because he's got four kids and a mortgage.
What a mess.
I think the domestic automakers need to take some really tough medicine.
If the Fed does give them the loan, then they ought to keep the gas tax high. Keep it high. You have to foment the change somewhere.
I keep thinking about the nuclear power promise that John McCain kept on during his campaign. Imagine how many jobs that could produce in construction, maintenance, security, and education.

In 1873 you could buy a Colt Peacemaker for a $20 gold piece. You still can.

I'm in a crunch too. I plan on getting married eventually to my girlfriend, and as I learned from my very wise father, I need to get the toys now, or I'll never get them. Try justifying an $800 purchase when that money could be going to the kids' college funds, a medical emergency account, the car payments, a better house, etc. So I have to get my expensive toys now.

I've narrowed it down to 3 things. I want suppressed weapons. I already have my semi-auto rifles and now I want to start with the suppressors because they are expensive. Here are my planned purchases:

-SRT 9mm integrally suppressed AR15 upper w/complete lower
-Integrally suppressed Marlin Papoose .22lr rifle
-Integrally suppressed Ruger MKII
-Sig Mosquito w/22lr suppressor
-Ciener kit for my AR

That's going to take me a while to save up for, and my girlfriend won't want to wait forever, so that's probably my expensive firearm bucket list. I'll probably still get to buy the occassional $500 firearm, but the days of spending $800+ on a gun are limited.

Soon, everything that is not directly related to food and shelter will be considered a waste of money. The massive greed and spoiledness in our society is ending. All the signs of the end of an era are there to behold. McMansions for 2 people. One can pay $150 or more for a dinner in some cities. $5 coffee. etc. etc. All signs of the top of an insane era of excess. Billions of poor around the world and Wall Street continues pay billions in bonuses. The sickness is ending and the greedy will know what it is like to be poor.

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Once layoffs and personal credit defaults start in earnest, the desperate will be selling and forfeiting assets to be acquired by the "deep pockets", including the very banks getting stuffed full of cash printed/borrowed at the expense of our and our children's standard of living.

Once the deflationary phase is done and hyperinflation sets in, we're left with high unemployment, depressed wages, and half the country on welfare. Care to trade in your rights and guns for food stamps to keep your kids from starving?

The wealth distribution will look rather more ugly when this is all over. Instead of the top 10% having 90% (with the top 1% having 30-ish %) of the wealth as is the case now, we'll look even more like a real banana republic.

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

Our so-called democratic government is an abominable amalgamation of corrupt crony capitalists and socialists. The rapidly growing voting bloc of the poor and the liberal idiots will keep these egregious villains in power forever.

Make sure your suppressed 22s all come apart for cleaning.
Anyone who tells you a 22 silencer does not need to come apart for cleaning is an idiot or a liar, or trying to sell you some crap design he cooked up in his garage.

Also, it is easier to afford useful stuff if you decline to buy your honey a diamond ring. Realistically it has next to no resale value, the money is better spent on a down payment for a car/home. If she is very materialistic and has to have one to impress her friends get her a diamond off ebay. Clean it up in an ultrasonic cleaner, it will sparkle. She'll never know the better and as long as it is the "proper" size it will fulfill her requirement that it impress her friends, and you can do it for pennies on the dollar for the cost of a "new" diamond.

-T

Once layoffs and personal credit defaults start in earnest, the desperate will be selling and forfeiting assets to be acquired by the "deep pockets", including the very banks getting stuffed full of cash printed/borrowed at the expense of our and our children's standard of living.

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I look forward to this day, people have been making knee jerk purchases for the last month now and when the economy really hits them they'll be selling off their hobbies in droves.

I'm so glad I don't have kids. I don't have much aspiration to ever have any nor do I have much desire to get married any time soon. I make just enough money to support myself and buy a few guns every year.

I wouldn't be buying guns at all and I'd probably have to sell off all the ones I have now if I even had one kid to feed in this economy.

I'm not going to stop spending, I'm caught up in the guns and ammo area, I'm now moving on to stockpiling food and other consumables that will no longer be available in a few months when the US economy crashes....

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+ 1 on that...going to keep on going until I cant any longer...

I happen to have it on good authority that the sky is falling.

im officially curbing my gun spending - the economy

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Im with you chief. The only gun I have purchased recently was a Sig 226 .22 conversion. I only bought it so I could fire cheap .22 instead of 9mm. I basically stopped spending money on guns early in the summer. I have all of my bases covered in pistol, rifle, and shotgun categories. And I have enough ammo to survive the Obama years. Anyway, I came to this conclusion not from the dreary economy, more from a matter of personal usability. I mean, how many guns can I actually carry on my person? Maybe one rifle and two pistols. What good is an arsenal going to be if it is not mobile?

Instead of having piles of guns, I would rather save the space and weight for lots of ammo and plenty of other survival materials. Having a gun is only one little chunk of surviving a potential disaster.

That's going to take me a while to save up for, and my girlfriend won't want to wait forever, so that's probably my expensive firearm bucket list. I'll probably still get to buy the occassional $500 firearm, but the days of spending $800+ on a gun are limited.

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Marriage isn't all doom and gloom. Get a good education, both of you. Work in a good field where you can make a good living. You really can it all, or pretty close to it. If you decide to have multiple kids and she stays home you can still do very well. I've been married 15 years (got married at 18) and we just had our little boy 8 months ago. This is the busiest year yet for the expansion of my collection.

im officially increasing my gun spending - the presidency.

Tell me where I can get these 45 MPG Japanese cars then, please.

It's not one of those "smart cars" is it?

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They aren't sold in the US market. For the same reasons alot of stuff is hard to import into the US.

They aren't sold in the US market. For the same reasons alot of stuff is hard to import into the US.

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Our crash standards are tougher..that stops a lot of things.

I'm curbing my gun buying because I'm almost at the end of my want list. I'm only lacking a Deringer, a derringer, a Walker, and maybe a non-damascus early 1900s 12 ga shotgun.

Then I'll probably make a new list.

BTW, I've built and driven a car that got over 100 mpg at 45 mph. It got about 80 mpg at 55. That felt fast in a 900 pound car! Pretty much a four wheeled mo-ped.

Google RQ Riley for the plans.