I went to my local gunshop looking to spend up to $1000 on a metal 9mm for concealed carry. I want metal because with an old wrist injury I'm sensitive to recoil and think that a metal pistol would have less recoil and muzzle flip. I don't think I would trust anything less than 9mm so that's the reason for that qualification. And for concealed carry, I want something as small as can be given my other qualifications. So the saleman recommended a Kahr K9 or a Springfield EMP. I like the feel of both and am up in the air. Reliability is important too and I have heard mixed things about the EMP in that regard. A friend recommended a Para Carry 9. Anyone have any helpful suggestions? Thank you.
Metal 9mm for ccw?
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JImbothefiveth
Member
See if you can find a range in your area that will allow you to rent one first. That way, you will know if it has too much recoil.
orchidhunter
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The Browning Hi Power will do the job. With small semi autos, comes trouble. orchidhunter
fastbolt
Member
I generally avoid becoming involved in making specific recommendations to folks when it comes to lawful CCW, off-duty or retirement CCW weapons. I prefer to have some familiarity with them and their level of experience and shooting skills ... and then I really prefer to have them try various examples of whatever they're considering out on the firing line so they can be better informed themselves when it comes to various makes/models/designs/calibers, etc.
I noticed this comment in your thread, however ...
If that were explained by one of our folks asking for some insight, I'd probably arrange for them to try some examples of different size 'compact/subcompact' pistols to see if their existing wrist condition, and resulting shooting grip technique, was a factor with some of the smaller, faster cycling pistols.
I'd also suggest they consider trying both a Sig Sauer P239 and a recent production 908/908S (stainless slide) or 3913TSW ... although both S&W models have been discontinued from commercial sales, they may still be found from time to time.
Both the Sig Sauer and the S&W compact 9mm models have enjoyed good reports from owners/users. The Sig may be a bit more attractive in that it's still in production and the slightly thicker/wider grip frame may help offset felt recoil a bit more in the perception of some folks.
The Sig can be found in their traditional double action (DA/SA) as well as their DAK (an enhanced DAO with a couple of trigger positions & resulting weights for the DA trigger stroke).
Since it's your needs and your perception that's the most critical, it would probably benefit you to find a range where you could try out whatever it is you're considering.
I noticed this comment in your thread, however ...
If that were explained by one of our folks asking for some insight, I'd probably arrange for them to try some examples of different size 'compact/subcompact' pistols to see if their existing wrist condition, and resulting shooting grip technique, was a factor with some of the smaller, faster cycling pistols.
I'd also suggest they consider trying both a Sig Sauer P239 and a recent production 908/908S (stainless slide) or 3913TSW ... although both S&W models have been discontinued from commercial sales, they may still be found from time to time.
Both the Sig Sauer and the S&W compact 9mm models have enjoyed good reports from owners/users. The Sig may be a bit more attractive in that it's still in production and the slightly thicker/wider grip frame may help offset felt recoil a bit more in the perception of some folks.
The Sig can be found in their traditional double action (DA/SA) as well as their DAK (an enhanced DAO with a couple of trigger positions & resulting weights for the DA trigger stroke).
Since it's your needs and your perception that's the most critical, it would probably benefit you to find a range where you could try out whatever it is you're considering.
usp9
Member
I would also suggest the Big Brother to the K9, the Kahr T9, a beautiful, full sized grip in a compact, reliable, slim pistol.
Orange_Magnum
member
A Firestar single stack would be more accurate, at a third of that price. The S&W 3913 is supposed to be awesome too, about $400 lightly used.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
What kind of metal? There is little weight difference between polymer and aluminum-alloy-framed pistols of equal size. If you want an all steel 9mm, look into the CZ75s and S&W 5906. (Some all steel models have counterparts or similar models in alloy).
Ken Rainey
Member
Well, I've had a K9 and as far as muzzle flip and your wrist goes, I'd recommend trying a Glock 26...I know it's not all steel but it's wider grip divides the recoil over a wider area and is no worse and I think better than the K9...of course, the K9 ain't bad either...just don't rule out a Glock due to it's frame construction unless it's too wide for your hand...
The Lone Haranguer
Member
The sheer weight of the pistol is not the only consideration.
fastbolt
Member
Well, I wasn't going to go outside the expressed the desire for debate only involving metal-framed pistols, but since the subject has come up ...
If overall size and weight isn't an issue the field of potential choices can be expanded considerably. Larger models often offer less felt, or perceived, recoil and muzzle whip than smaller models.
If smaller platforms are desirable because of carry method and personal preference when it comes to overall comfort ... (and I'm right there in that category of preference, BTW) ... and a polymer-framed model which offers the user a sufficiently reduced perception of recoil is going to be considered, then the field of choices also opens up a bit.
Some of the smaller polymer-framed 9mm choices do offer what many folks often describe as comfortably controllable amounts of felt recoil. The grip angle may not suit your needs when it comes to whatever your wrist condition is, though, so that deserves some careful consideration. Like many folks I have to cock, or 'break', my wrist a bit to shoot a Glock, unlike when I use some other platforms. The XD, 99 series and the excellent M&P series seems to offer some potential attention when it comes to smaller pistols with polymer frames. Their ergonomics all seem similar when it comes to grip angle from my perspective, although I definitely have some preference when it comes to other ergonomic considerations. You might, too.
It will still come down to whatever best suits your needs and perception, though, right? It would still probably be helpful to try some different models at a local range. Although some rental ranges can result in adding up the cost of rentals & ammunition pretty quickly, it might arguably still be a worthwhile investment compared to investing in a particular model and discovering that it really doesn't suit your needs after you own it.
If overall size and weight isn't an issue the field of potential choices can be expanded considerably. Larger models often offer less felt, or perceived, recoil and muzzle whip than smaller models.
If smaller platforms are desirable because of carry method and personal preference when it comes to overall comfort ... (and I'm right there in that category of preference, BTW) ... and a polymer-framed model which offers the user a sufficiently reduced perception of recoil is going to be considered, then the field of choices also opens up a bit.
Some of the smaller polymer-framed 9mm choices do offer what many folks often describe as comfortably controllable amounts of felt recoil. The grip angle may not suit your needs when it comes to whatever your wrist condition is, though, so that deserves some careful consideration. Like many folks I have to cock, or 'break', my wrist a bit to shoot a Glock, unlike when I use some other platforms. The XD, 99 series and the excellent M&P series seems to offer some potential attention when it comes to smaller pistols with polymer frames. Their ergonomics all seem similar when it comes to grip angle from my perspective, although I definitely have some preference when it comes to other ergonomic considerations. You might, too.
It will still come down to whatever best suits your needs and perception, though, right? It would still probably be helpful to try some different models at a local range. Although some rental ranges can result in adding up the cost of rentals & ammunition pretty quickly, it might arguably still be a worthwhile investment compared to investing in a particular model and discovering that it really doesn't suit your needs after you own it.
oneounceload
member
for a grand, a Rohrbaugh could be had, as could a nice Sig, H&K P7, among many others
357wheelgunner
Member
You could get 3 Sig P6s for $1000, they're great guns with very little wear.
I carry mine daily, very comfortable and they're just big enough to shoot well.
I carry mine daily, very comfortable and they're just big enough to shoot well.
PX15
Member
JMOfartO:
3rd Gen Smith CS9, or 3913LS..
I've tried most of the competition at some time or another and I still keep coming back to the 3gS..
I've found almost any modern 9mm pistol is capable of respectful accuracy at self defense range.. So accuracy for a self defense weapon is NOT at the top of my list of "got to haves"
RELIABILITY IS JOB ONE in a self defense firearm, and I don't care how much you chose to pay, or what name is engraved on the slide, I honestly don't think any pistol on the planet is any MORE reliable than a 3rd gen Smith.
If it's my intention to try and shoot the tightest groups possible I would take one of my HK P7's.. Those pistols are unbelievably accurate.. Fantastically reliable too..
But in my experience a 3rd generation Smith is as good a cc pistol as money can buy.
About the only reason I can think of NOT to buy a 3gS is if you don't care for the TDA trigger.. Personally I love a traditional double-action in my cc firearm as I think the heavier first round double action trigger pull might save me from an nd/ad in a time of stress, and may even keep me from shooting myself in the butt when I withdraw my firearm from my FIST Kydex IWB holster during a crisis when my adrenlin is going wild and my instinct to "flee or fight" is missing in action.
Not inflicting yourself with a gunshot wound is a good thing...
Just personal opinion, based on trying 'em all for almost 50 years, no offense to those gun folks smarter than I.. (Even if they only THINK they're smarter than I am..)
Jesse
3rd Gen Smith CS9, or 3913LS..
I've tried most of the competition at some time or another and I still keep coming back to the 3gS..
I've found almost any modern 9mm pistol is capable of respectful accuracy at self defense range.. So accuracy for a self defense weapon is NOT at the top of my list of "got to haves"
RELIABILITY IS JOB ONE in a self defense firearm, and I don't care how much you chose to pay, or what name is engraved on the slide, I honestly don't think any pistol on the planet is any MORE reliable than a 3rd gen Smith.
If it's my intention to try and shoot the tightest groups possible I would take one of my HK P7's.. Those pistols are unbelievably accurate.. Fantastically reliable too..
But in my experience a 3rd generation Smith is as good a cc pistol as money can buy.
About the only reason I can think of NOT to buy a 3gS is if you don't care for the TDA trigger.. Personally I love a traditional double-action in my cc firearm as I think the heavier first round double action trigger pull might save me from an nd/ad in a time of stress, and may even keep me from shooting myself in the butt when I withdraw my firearm from my FIST Kydex IWB holster during a crisis when my adrenlin is going wild and my instinct to "flee or fight" is missing in action.
Not inflicting yourself with a gunshot wound is a good thing...
Just personal opinion, based on trying 'em all for almost 50 years, no offense to those gun folks smarter than I.. (Even if they only THINK they're smarter than I am..
)Jesse
Sounds like the Sig P239 9mm would be an option for you:
It's quite concealable, but it has a decent amount of slide mass to reduce felt recoil. Mine has Hogue Wrap Around rubber grips which greatly improves how the pistol feels, how secure it is in the hand, and softens recoil. If fact, it's hard for me to feel a real recoil difference between it and a full sized 9mm P226. Very reliable, accurate, and it has probably the best DA/SA trigger on the market and decocker design.
If you want to further reduce recoil, use standard pressure 147gr loads. Two of the best on the market are Winchester Ranger Talons and Federal HST in which you can buy here:
www.ammunitiontogo.com
No worries, you do not need to be law enforcement to buy any of this ammo.
It's quite concealable, but it has a decent amount of slide mass to reduce felt recoil. Mine has Hogue Wrap Around rubber grips which greatly improves how the pistol feels, how secure it is in the hand, and softens recoil. If fact, it's hard for me to feel a real recoil difference between it and a full sized 9mm P226. Very reliable, accurate, and it has probably the best DA/SA trigger on the market and decocker design.
If you want to further reduce recoil, use standard pressure 147gr loads. Two of the best on the market are Winchester Ranger Talons and Federal HST in which you can buy here:
www.ammunitiontogo.com
No worries, you do not need to be law enforcement to buy any of this ammo.
Funderb
Member
CZ anyone?
Full sized CZ 75 maybe. It's a good pistol, but might be a little large and heafty for CCW. Compact alloy framed models like the P-01 have reduced slide mass resulting in faster slide cycle. Combine that with low bore axis and overall weight, full power loads are quite abusive in recoil. NATO loads are notorious for generating the commonly experienced trigger slap that you get in many of the compact CZ pistols as a result of the slide mass and overall design. I know, I've owned 6 CZs.
Starcheck55
Member
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+1 qftmft
gc70
Member
The weight of the pistol is a huge factor in the technical calculation of recoil force and velocity, but it is only one of many factors in perceived recoil in the real world. Wider grips disperse recoil over a broader area of the hand. The height of the bore axis over the hand is a big factor in muzzle flip. And on and on...
My wife had to adjust to recoil sensitivity following reconstructive hand surgery. She tried my full-size, 42-ounce, 9mm range gun and said it had too much recoil. But she tried other guns and settled on a 25-ounce S&W M&P compact! For her, the M&P's grip shape and material, bore axis, and other factors combined to yield perceived recoil that she could manage.
Try a variety of guns; the heaviest one you can find may not be the answer.
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