Chicago commuter train detained, passengers searched by police with auto weapons...

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Deanimator said:
Man, if it was the Chicago PD, there's gold in them thar hills!

Just for the heck of it, I did a quick search on monetary damages and Terry stops. Here's the 1st case that pops up:

Plaintiff Patricia McCardle appeals from so much of a judgment and supplemental judgment (collectively "judgment") of the United States District Court for the District of Connecticut, Alfred V. Covello, Judge , as awarded her $1.00 in nominal damages and $0.33 in attorneys' fees on her claim under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 (1994) against defendant Jonathan Haddad for violation of her right under the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution to be free from unreasonable searches. Judgment was entered following a jury verdict finding that McCardle's automobile had been unreasonably searched, but awarding no damages...

In the present case, though the jury found that Haddad was liable to McCardle for searching her car in violation of her Fourth Amendment rights, it awarded her no compensatory damages, apparently finding that her disillusionment did not warrant a money award. Further, the court had refused to instruct the jury that it could award McCardle punitive damages, because it concluded--properly, as discussed in Part II.C. above--that she had failed to establish the intent, malice, or recklessness required to sustain such an award. Accordingly, McCardle did not succeed in establishing her entitlement to more than nominal damages.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=2nd&navby=case&no=969133

The appeals court upheld the whopping $1 in damages. I am guessing the the less whopping 33 cents in attorney fees comes from an agreement where the attorney would take 1/3 of the settlement. That made me laugh, probably unfairly. :)

Mike
 
This is not a Chicago problem. And I have more reason to hate Chicago then most people here. If you think the same incident wouldn't have had the same result anywhere else in this day and age you are kidding yourself. This would have happened on any commuter line in the country. The authorities aren't going to take any chances with possible terrorist events.
 
Is there a history "big payouts" in this kind of case?
We were talking about the CHICAGO PD. A mere unlawful Terry frisk wouldn't be enough for them. They'd HAVE to do something malicious AND stupid, probably false arrest and excessive force in front of witnesses at a minimum. Anything else would be like expecting a great white shark to subsist on broccoli.
 
Is $12.5 million big enough?

I think that you have to be dead to collect that one.

Have you found any illegal "Terry stop" suits that ended up with more than $1 in damages?

In the one I cited, the appeals court even let the 33 cents in attorney fees stand - that's cold.

It may be hard to find an attorney who's willing to take on a case for those kinds of damages. :)

Mike
 
Isn't it illegal to have a weapon on a commuter train in Chicago? I would presume that it could be, since (AFAIK) the state does not support concealed carry of loaded weapons on the part of normal folk.

If it was unloaded - could you carry on the train or does the train (like the bus services) prohibit weapons of any kind as a matter of policy?

I don't know about the legality of that, but I do know for sure that it is illegal to detain a trainful of people, and search them without cause (individually). One guy saying something doesn't make cause to detain and search an entire trainful, even in a "post 9/11 world" so long as 9/11 didn't void the bill of rights.
 
I think that you have to be dead to collect that one.
You can search the Sun-Times and Tribune websites and find all of the settlements and awards you want. Karolyna Obrycka's going buy her own village in Poland.

Of course we weren't talking about a "Terry stop", since NONE of the people were in ANY circumstances which would come within a million miles of justifying one, even badly excusing an illegal one.
 
You can search the Sun-Times and Tribune websites and find all of the settlements and awards you want. Karolyna Obrycka's going buy her own village in Poland.

There are some very big settlements in the paper from time to time - but none that remotely match the circumstances described in the OP.

If the police severely beat you on video while drunk or kill you, you may get a big award.

But an illegal Terry stop still looks like it might get you $1, and a big quarter, a nickle, and 3 and 1/3 pennies for your lawyer. Good luck on that one. And that's only if you win. The lawyers will be knocking down your door for that kind of money.

Of course we weren't talking about a "Terry stop", since NONE of the people were in ANY circumstances which would come within a million miles of justifying one, even badly excusing an illegal one.

Uh, if the "Terry stop" was legal, you wouldn't get anything, because it was, well ... legal.

Mike
 
I don't blame the cops at all. I blame the legislators that are forcing cops to be a force against "terrorism". This is a rediculous burden to place on our police departments, especially if we expect them to do normal police work as well.
 
Adding this event to my ever growing list of reasons to avoid public transportation.
 
i wonder how many bags of weed got tossed or flushed. sometimes searches have funny consequences when we had vips at a hotel i worked at the secret service would screen staff through a metal detector. they found lots of beer in purses
 
I had a client show up for court on the one and only occasion I know of when a certain distant rural courthouse happened to have the metal detectors up and manned. The fool had a folding knife on him -- which was the least of his problems, as they were searching bags and he was crazy enough to be holding dope (probably) in court. He denied it, to me and to everyone else, but it isn't everyone who panics and takes off running when he sees the searchers. Heck, around here lots of people get their knives confiscated (and usually returned later) at the courthouse door.

Then there was the woman at the airport whose (comically enormous) marital aid started buzzing and shaking inside her bag while she stood in line at the security checkpoint.
 
So a USSS Special Agent, unfamiliar with and trying to comply with railway proceedures, volunteered who he was and that he was armed, asked how to proceed, and when ultimately the railway personnel he encountered determined that there was a proceedural infraction the local police was contacted, who in turn detained the train and its passengers until things where sorted out? Do I have that correct?

It could have been sorted out much better all around, regardless of which version of events are taken as acurate.

Which why folks allowed to carry everywhere should do so and worry about security measures as they are encountered.
 
To me, the saddest part is that someone overheard (only partially, I'm sure; I used to ride those trains daily) a mention of a gun and couldn't wait to rat the guy out.

When we did we become so eager to sell one another out?
 
I wonder what the law is about being searched, when and where and under what circumstances you have to comply.

I know those AR-15's are scary but I would tend to decline especially if I wasn't positively ID'd by another passenger or if I didn't match the description of the "suspect".

Searching everyone? No frick'n way. That's very uncool!
 
No, this particular searching everyone is by definition, unnecessary. But they wanna sweep and see how much dope or whatever they can. I swear, I heard more wrongful death judgements in Chicago than drug busts while I lived north of there. And I remember USSS being allowed to carry on my Navy base (which we aren't even allowed to do) while they attended an EMT course I taught.:banghead:
 
Where was that train on the way to Dachu? (sorry for spelling)
That was one stupid Secret Service Agent they should have just gotten on and IF there was a metal deteor then show the badge, thats why they give you a badge. Dumb Bastard.
I am not an Obama fan, but I hope to god for the sake of the country that, that nit-wit is not on the presidential detail. I mean really, hey what's this badge thing for, Wait, wait don't shoot officer!!!! That agent should be re-assianed to gaurd the baby seals against global warming in alaska.
 
I thought that most "Terry frisk" cases ended up suppressing/not suppressing evidence, not in monetary damages.

Do you have some citations where an "Terry frisk" suit produced sizable monetary damages?
There is precedent to suggest that SCOTUS wants to see more monetary damages and less suppression of evidence.

In Hudson v. Michigan, 547 U. S. 586 (2006), Scalia wrote that the "increasing professionalism" (his words, not mine) and the increase in the number of public-interest law firms and civil rights lawyers means that it is more appropriate to challenge unlawful searches in a civil suit than in an exclusionary hearing.

Scalia further said that "[w]e cannot assume that exclusion in this context is necessary deterrence simply because we found that it was necessary deterrence in different contexts and long ago. That would be forcing the public today to pay for the sins and inadequacies of a legal regime that existed almost half a century ago," and "[t]he cost of entering this lottery [of claiming evidence was gained unlawfully] would be small, but the jackpot enormous: suppression of all evidence, amounting in many cases to a get-out-of-jail-free card."

In other words, Scalia--along with four others--doesn't see a need to give the State a credible check on its power. Raise your hands if you're surprised.
 
This story has GOT to be fiction. Chicago is the most anti-gun bastion in the world. King Richard Daley doesn't allow any peasant, serfs and peons to own, use, carry or possess any guns anywhere near Chicago.
 
What was the cost of that little event? $10,000? Seems like the need some MBA's over at the police desk...
 
Heh-heh. Naperville, in the house!

I've been to Lisle and its train station, way back about twelve/thirteen years ago when I did some work for R.R. Donnelley, which had a technology center "corporetum" there. That train station was one boring place to spend two hours. So was R.R. Donnelley ...

Not everyone from IL is so brainwashed, but be careful as to not spook the sheep by speaking and/or acting out. I also work for RR Donnelley and couldn't agree more about the boring part (I could go on). We hang no gun signs on the entrance doors and the sheeple feel safer.
 
As a followup to my previous post, the Supreme Court just ruled that evidence gained from an illegal search that results from "negligence ... rather than systematic error or reckless disregard of constitutional requirements" no longer justifies suppression.

In other words, if the cops can plausibly claim incompetence, their antics can be used against you.
 
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