Who's at fault here?

You know what I usually do when I come upon a cop scene?

It's generally from 1 to 3 cars on some sort of traffic stop.

I generally rail at the drivers in front of me saying "Move along dammit there is nothing to see here"

It has NEVER EVER entered my mind to give gruff the cops!

MOST cops are just doing their mostly THANKLESS jobs.

You got a court decision to back up your theory? I didn't think so. In many jurisdictions across this nation, in fact I would bet that in most of these United States, sticking his nose into a police action he wasn't involved in was a crime. Ever hear of obstruction? There are laws on the books just about everywhere that forbid you from exercising your free speech and other rights when that exercising of your rights would interfere with the official performing his duties. If you don't believe me, just try exercising your free speech rights in court sometime.....I suppose that you would argue that your arrest and incarceration or fine for contempt was selective enforcement after your brought attention to yourself by exercising your right to freedom of speech.

The bicyclist was in the wrong for sticking his nose into police business he wasn't involved in to start with. To be in violation of other laws while you are obstructing isn't real smart.

If you want to exercise your right to free speech, write a letter to the editor about the travesty of justice you just witnessed, or even an oped piece, show up at the city council meeting during the public comment period and demand some answers as to if the suspects you'd witnessed being arrested had their rights against self incrimination protected. Interfering with an officer in the performance of his duties in not free speech it is obstruction, interfering with a public official or some other term in some other jurisdiction.

Your right to free speech does not allow you to interfere with a public official in the performance of his duties. Most laws not only extend this to the police, but also to firefighters, other first responders and other public officials.

Click to expand...

I, like the rest of you, agree that the bicyclist was a moron, but I think the argument of obstruction is a stretch. He apparently made a smart remark as he was riding by. I don't see how this can be argued to be obstruction. If he had stopped on the scene and started causing a commotion etc, then yes... but according the article that is not what happened. His statement consisted of no threats, vulgarities, etc. I think to call what he did OBSTRUCTION is ridiculous. As far as I know, there is no law that states you have to remain silent while passing a police scene.

6-4-16: PUBLIC OFFICIALS, OBSTRUCTION OF DUTIES:

(A) Resisting The Duties Of Public Officials: (Ord. 18, Series of 1979)

1. Interference: It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly, by use or threatened use (with the apparent present ability to carry out such threat) of violence, force or physical interference or obstacle, to obstruct, interfere with or impair any member of the Police Department or any person duly empowered with police authority or any personnel of the Fire Department of the City while such official is in the discharge or apparent discharge of his duty. (Ord. 41, Series of 1987)

Click to expand...

This is what our city code said when I worked there. It was commonly interpreted by officers, and the court, that if anyone distracted you from your duties without a valid reason, they were obstructing you. They were the actual physical obstacle/source of interference. It was a widely used offense.

And you can bet, if someone said that to me, distracting me from dealing with the 5 subjects on the stop, and then made me chase them...they'd get charged with obstruction along with a bunch of other pertinent stuff.

Of course, it's outta my hands after I drop the dumbass off at the jail and turn in the paperwork. The city attorney and/or muni judge deals with them after that. If they decide to prosecute or not, or drop the charges or not, that's their part of the equation.

Like I sometimes told people on the way to jail..."You might beat the rap tomorrow, but you ain't gonna beat the ride tonight."

You might beat the rap tomorrow, but you ain't gonna beat the ride tonight."

Click to expand...

might as well say...


i'm going to bend over the department and have them un clinch for you.

And you can bet, if someone said that to me, distracting me from dealing with the 5 subjects on the stop, and then made me chase them...

Click to expand...

If a guy riding a bike with no light, making no threatening remarks, distracts you from your job as a LEO, than I am truly scared that you are patrolling our streets

Obviously you have no idea what it is to deal with multiple suspects when you have other people trying to but in. How was the officer to know the bicyclist wasn't somehow involved? It never ceases to amaze me how many people know everything about something they've never done...

Click to expand...

If you can't focus, then find another job. You get paid to focus! I was interested in becoming a LEO in highschool and took the aptitude test. I was told that I scored too high to be a LEO.

so what do you do? if your not shy...

I agree that he should not have said anything, shoulda stopped when the lights came on, and I personally could not make a judgement on the gun without more info.

Name of the school and name of the test. Time to put up or shut up. As far as I know, no law enforcement agency in the country recruits out of high school. Every agency I am aware of requires you to be 21 to be hired in or 20 and reaching your 20th birthday by the time you completed training.

If you weren't too smart for law enforcement you'd know that you have to focus on everything going on, especially if you are working alone. The person who shows up and starts making comments may be trying to distract you for a reason. The cyclist involved himself in the situation by butting in. Focus on the multiple suspects and ignore the one butting in may get you shot by the one butting in.

I want the name of the high school and the test you took. Your continued participation depends on it.
Jeff White is online now Report Post

Click to expand...

The test was administered at Lansing Catholic Central High school in Lansing, MI. I graduated in 1990, so I would suggest the test was administered either '88 or '89. It was performed by the local Army recruiting office. The test scores were accompanied by "occupational recomendations" based on a variety of criteria including: intelligence, interests, social skills, etc.

so what do you do? if your not shy...

Click to expand...

I am a physical therapist. I do home health care, which takes me in to the poorest and richest communities in South Florida.

If you can't focus, then find another job. You get paid to focus! I was interested in becoming a LEO in highschool and took the aptitude test. I was told that I scored too high to be a LEO.

Click to expand...

What a load of crap. Why don't you tell me exactly what a police officer's job entails? Furthermore, I've got news for you...there is no high school aptitude test I've ever heard of for being a police officer. Not only that, nobody on a hiring board for police officers gives a rats ass about some chickens**t aptitude test you took in high school.

And I agree with Jeff White. Sounds like you took the ASVAB to me. While you were graduating from high school, junior, I was already a veteran police officer patrolling the streets after having been an Air Force aircrew member for several years.

And since when did physical therapists become experts on police work?

You know absolutely jack about what a police officer's job entails, skippy. Why don't you stick to what you know instead of making yourself look like a fool? Rhetorical question since it's obviously too late for that.

Guys like you used to really make my day (or shift). Typically their day really went bad when they said something like, "You can't arrest me." Famous last words before going to jail.

Originally posted by Jeff White:
There is no such thing as being too smart to be in law enforcement.

Click to expand...

That's true. But there's always someone who thinks they know more about police work than the guys who've BTDT. "I'm not a police officer. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express and watch COPS last night."

Son, you took the ASVAB test. Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. It is a test designed to classify your aptitude for various jobs in the military. Each job in each service has a qualifying score. That score is a minimum score to get the job, not a maximum score. I will call my son who is presently an active duty Army recruiter and find out the line score required for military police. I'm sure you scored higher then the minimum for military police and the recruiter was trying to steer you into another job. Recruiters have quotas for certain jobs and there is no shortage of applicants who want to be MPs. I'm sure that you were being steered toward a harder to fill MOS that you cut a high enough score to qualify for.

There is no such thing as being too smart to be in law enforcement.

Click to expand...

Jeff, you may be right on the specifics of the above... but to apply some real life experience to LEO...

First... my father was drafted and served a tour in Vietnam, so I have no pre-conceived aversion to those who protect my life and liberties.

Second... my personal friends from gradeschool and highschool that became Leo's, chose so, not because of altruistic desires, but because they failed academically and found the military to be too restrictive. (In other words, the local law enforcement agencies were not exactly seeking the cream of the crop. In fact, much like gangs, they were seeking the weak who were looking for a sense of family and belonging... the thin blue line)
As I said, THESE WERE MY FRIENDS. However we gradually grew apart because the hypocritical, superior complex became intolerable.

Third... I have encountered many LEOs that deserve my respect and gratitude, but please don't suggest that because you have a badge that you DESERVE my respect. Just within the last couple months... several Hollywood, FL police officers were convicted of dealing drugs and laundering money.

These are the same guys pulling me over for speeding, lane change violations etc.:banghead:

Guys like you used to really make my day (or shift). Typically their day really went bad when they said something like, "You can't arrest me." Famous last words before going to jail.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I am talking about. Thanks for proving my point. Tough guy for no reason. Take away the badge and you are no different than the guy you are arresting

Every agency I am aware of requires you to be 21 to be hired in or 20 and reaching your 21st birthday by the time you completed training.

Click to expand...

http://www.sacsheriff.com/organization/assistant_sheriff/recruiting/deputy.cfm


sac county( where I live) only requires:

18 years of age or older (no maximum age limit)
United States citizenship, or eligible for and has applied for
High School diploma or G.E.D.
No Felony Convictions
Valid California Driver's License



Several other SD/PD in CA are the same way. Infact the CHP you only have to be age 20 when you take the test, training is 6 months. So you could be sworn in at age 20, but your bday would have to at the right time...

The cyclist is an idiot and got what he deserved.

Thanks for proving my point. You have no idea what you're talking about. It's not about being a tough guy. It's about not knowing what you're talking about. It's about proving that the guy who thinks he's smarter than a police officer when it comes to police work and what the police can/cannot do is usually the guy that goes to jail.

I'm surprised(?) you're not smart enough to understand that.

You need to come off the ego trip, dude. I could just as easily say, "You're just a physical therapist. What...couldn't handle nursing school or med school?"

Second... my personal friends from gradeschool and highschool that became Leo's, chose so, not because of altruistic desires, but because they failed academically and found the military to be too restrictive. (In other words, the local law enforcement agencies were not exactly seeking the cream of the crop. In fact, much like gangs, they were seeking the weak who were looking for a sense of family and belonging... the thin blue line)
As I said, THESE WERE MY FRIENDS. However we gradually grew apart because the hypocritical, superior complex became intolerable.

Click to expand...

Yeah...I've heard that same crap before from two kinds of people. Those riding in the back of my patrol car on the way to jail and those that didn't have the stones to join the military or the "aptitude" to be cops. Oh, wait...I forgot about the third type. He's the type that's always going to kick the officer's ass as soon as "you take these cuffs off". Course, the cuffs come off and there's not an ass-kickin' to be found.

Nice work insulting our military members and police officers by saying they are the weak ones in society. What's wrong with wanting a sense of belonging? Or family? Or to be part of something bigger than yourself?

My son is a 5-year Air Force veteran. He's won a Bronze Star w/Valor device for combat heroism in Fallujah along with commendation medals from the AF and Army. He's also finishing up his bachelor's degree while he's on active duty. He scored off the charts on the ASVAB and made Staff Sergeant in less than 4 years. He's contemplating becoming a federal LEO after he gets out in 5 years. His name is SSgt Kyle Sharp...Google it if you don't believe me. There are thousands of others just like him in the Army, Navy, AF, Marines and CG.

So you're saying because you chose to become a physical therapist because of your superior intellect that he's weak because he chose to join the military and wants to become a LEO in order to serve a cause greater than himself?

Sorry, dude. You're pathetic.

6-4-16: PUBLIC OFFICIALS, OBSTRUCTION OF DUTIES:

(A) Resisting The Duties Of Public Officials: (Ord. 18, Series of 1979)

1. Interference: It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly, by use or threatened use (with the apparent present ability to carry out such threat) of violence, force or physical interference or obstacle, to obstruct, interfere with or impair any member of the Police Department or any person duly empowered with police authority or any personnel of the Fire Department of the City while such official is in the discharge or apparent discharge of his duty. (Ord. 41, Series of 1987)

Click to expand...

FORT WORTH — A 23-year-old bicyclist rode right into trouble this week after making an apparent smart-aleck remark.

According to a report, a police officer had detained five people after a traffic stop in the 3900 block of White Settlement Road when the cyclist rode by about 11:45 p.m. Tuesday.

"Did y’all read them their rights first?" the cyclist said loudly as he pedaled past.

Click to expand...

, trying real hard to find how your law applies.

That guy was just asking for problems. He was running his mouth in a blatant challenge to the police and their authority during a lawful traffic stop, then he fled pursuit, and was carrying a firearm illegally.
Common sense, he was 100% in the wrong.

Beetle Bailey, trying real hard to find how your law applies.

Click to expand...

I'm sure you are.

Of course, if you'd read the entire response, you might have seen, and maybe understood, this:

This is what our city code said when I worked there. It was commonly interpreted by officers, and the court, that if anyone distracted you from your duties without a valid reason, they were obstructing you. They were the actual physical obstacle/source of interference. It was a widely used offense.

Click to expand...

apropos to nothin at all


"Why, no. I don't believe truth can be brought to people such as yourself. I doubt you'd recognize truth if your head was held tight and your nose was rubbed in it."
Byron Quick

Tell ya what, Rog. You just go on believing you're a whole lot smarter than the average cop and/or military person. I'll go on believing what I believe.

I'm finding it hard to maintain a High Road attitude in dealing with you.

I'm going to apply Mr Heinlein's advice to this useless discussion with you: "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."