Thinking about a 35 Whelen

The Ackley Improved cartridges may offer a slight improvement in headspacing with their sharper shoulders, but don't really add measurably to power (at the same pressure levels.) Remember, they were developed before your average handloader had access to chronographs and pressure-measuring equipment. The velocity figures Ackley gives are mostly blue sky.

And if you choose a .35 B-W, do not use Ackley's reloading data. I have a friend who made that mistake -- fortunately, he used an M1917 Enfield as the basic rifle, and that's a strong action. He fired one shot and commented, "you could have reloaded that cartridge with a shotgun primer."

I really-really wanted a .35Whelen for many years. I even ran up on a hunter using one and he was really fond of it.

When push-came-to-shove, and I decided to rebarrel my MkX in .30/06, I ended up buying a .338/06 barrel. (was on sale at a rediculously low price).

I don't regret doing the .338 but I really still wish I had a .35Whelen.

I have a Marlin M336 in .35Rem and it's a real thumper on deer. Almost too brutal with the 200gr Remington Corlokt RN run up to 2300fps (easy with H4895).

I have a Parker-Hale in .30/06 that I keep thinking that I want too rechamber.

The only regret that I have with the .338 is that there are no "inexpensive" bullets available for it. Midway and others sell the 200gr Remington Pt.SP Corlokts and that would be my primary bullet for the .35 as it is for most of my other calibers. The last time I wanted to rechamber my '06, (not the .338), I ended up buying a used Savage M110 in .300RUM for way too cheap.), then a Weatherby (Howa) Vangard in .257WbyMag. I also bought 16lbs of WC-860 for $50, so I don't really "need" a .35Whelen.

If I had it to do over again though, I'd definitely go with the .35Whelen.

If you shoot a .35Whelen, you definitely need to invest in $100 worth of loading equipment. You'll then have ammo for life for the cost of bullets, powder, and primers. Just this afternoon at the local public range, I picked up over 100 .30/06, .270, and .25/06 brass. Any of these with a single push through the loading dies creats either a .35Whelen, or .338/06.

You'll find that either of these two, at under 300yds are quite a bit more gun than the .30 caliber. I easily get 2,800fps with my .338 and 200gr bullets, and 3,000fps with the discontinued Nosler 180gr B.T. (however they do make the "accubond" at 2x the price ...............)

The Remington 200gr CorLokt will produce 1.5moa accuracy and will do 90% of what you want to do with the Whelen. Even the 200gr RN will hold together at the speed of the Whelen, just don't expect as much penetration as with the 200 Pt.SP.

The Hornady 200 and 225gr are excellent bullets also. Don't forget the 180gr Speer FN. It shoots suprisingly flat and is tough enough for the Whelen.

I say go for it, especially if you can find a Rem. 7600, or the new 750.
I once had a 760 in .35Remington. It was exceptionally accurate (sub-moa with 200gr Sierra RN and either H322 or Imr3031).
I however, don't care for the foward placement of the "slide" and the fact that it will rattle.

Make my .35Whelen a bolt action.......... about 8lbs with a 2.5-8x Leupold VX-3.

I always wanted one!

I don't regret doing the .338 but I really still wish I had a .35Whelen.

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The .35 Whelen works on expansion ratios. In almost all cartridges, 99% of the podwer is burned before the bullet has moved a fraction of an inch. It is the expanding gas that drives the bullet down the barrel.

Now, as a gas expands, the pressure drops. The gas expands faster in the .35 caliber barrel (more volume to the inch of forward travel.) This means pressure drops faster in the Whelen than in the '06 for an identical charge.

But we don't want the pressure to drop rapidly -- we want it as high as safely possible, and we want it to stay high as long as possible. This means the Whelen can safely burn more powder (of the proper formulation) than the '06, which translates to more energy. Hence the Whelen can drive a heavy .35 caliber bullet about as fast as the '06 can drive a lighter bullet.

The flaw of the Whelen is that the case usually can't hold enough powder to take full advantage of the favorable expansion ratio. One way to solve this is to make the case volume greater (the .35 Brown-Whelen) and another is to make the bore a bit smaller (the .338-06) to bring the cartridge back into balance.

The .338-06 is not a bad choice at all -- especially given the wide range of .338 bullets available to the reloader.

Thoughts on the Colonel's baby...

Fascinating discussion!

I too have wanted a .35 Whelan (I've always been told, "Wheel-ann") for years. But my reading convinced me that a .35 Whelan AI was the way to go. 10% more powder capacity and more positive headspacing than with the standard .35 Whelan.

Now I'm hearing about this .35 Brown-Whelan. What is the difference between that and the .35 Whelan AI, which as I understand it is one of the most efficient users of its powder of any available similar-sized cartridge.

And we have the faster powders now to take advantage of the increased case capacity. Mebbe we can even dare to approach Ackley's results...safely.

I still lust after a .35 Whelan, but which improved version??? And while I'm asking, why oh why did Remington standardize the "regular" .35 Whelan, not the AI version?

The AI (Ackley Improved) cartridges merely change the shoulder angle. They add very little case volume. One key "advantage" for the AI cartridges is that you can fire a standard round in the AI chamber. If you do any wildcatting at all, you know that means only minor dimension changes -- you certainly cannot fire a .35 Whelen in a .35 B-W chamber!

If you try chronographing AI catridges in conjunction with a pressure gauge, you will find the velocity gain is statistically insignificant. Some people claim the sharper shoulders make for better headspacing and hence better accuracy.

The .35 B-W makes major changes to the .30-06 case, and must be formed with special forming loads. It reduces taper and pushes the shoulder as far forward as possible (consistent with leaving enough neck to hold the bullet). It makes a big enough change to get a significant volume (and hence velocity) increase. A good powder for the .35 B-W is Reloader 15.

Interesting!

Aah! Thank you Vern!!

One more point -- if you go to the .35 B-W, you will be much happier with a Classic Winchester (or pre-'64 Model 70), a Springrield, 1917 Enfield or Mauser action than a Remington of similar push-feed.

The reason is you can feed cases from the magazine and the extractor will hold them firmly against the bolt face. So you merely load your forming charges and shoot. (I like about 10 grains of Bullseye behind a quarter sheet of toilet paper when forming .30-06 cases.)

If you use a push-feed action, you have to neck the case up over .35 Caliber, then neck it back down to .35 in order to form a false shoulder the case can headspace against when you fiire-form it.

Again, Thx Vern!

While looking in Cartridges of the World, 10th ed, for the .35 Brown-Whelen (It isn't included but then, neither is the .35 Whelen original, although this one is mentioned peripherally a couple of times.) I ran across the .35 Sambar, which is the .300 WSM necked up to 35 caliber with no other changes. (page 200 of COTW)

Any comparison between .35 Sambar and the various .35 Whelens? I'd been hoping that Win would come out with a .35 WSM, just for comparisons' sake, but they seem to have stopped with the .325.

BTW, my spies at Krause Publications tell me that Krause is hard at work on a new edition of COTW, due out later this year or early 2008.

How much faster is the .35 Sambar than the .350 Rem mag? Seems the difference shouldn't be much, but I have no spec's on the Sambar.

Vern... Thanks for the info. I'll make it a Brown-Whelen then, any recommendations for barrel length? I'm thinking 25 inches, but I could be swayed. Of course, there is the .400 B-W too.

If you go with the .40 Whelen, use the sharper Brown-style shoulder. The original .40 Whelen failed because it didn't have enough shoulder to headspace on -- sharpening up the shoulder solves that. I believe the Hawk series has a cartridge just like that, and Z-Hat sells the dies.

I don't have a preference for barrel length -- Bigfoot Wallace, my .35 B-W uses the original Springfield barrel bored out, re-rifled and re-chambered. The barrel was cut off and re-crowned just behind the front sight, which makes it about 23" long.

Velocities

Cartridges of the World, 10th ed, 2003, Krause Publications, gives the following velocities:
.350 Rem Magnum
125 gr. HP 60 gr. IMR 4895 2850 fps
158 gr. SP 58 gr. IMR 3031 2850 fps
180 gr. SP 62 gr. IMR 4064 2900 fps
200 gr. SP 60 gr. IMR 4320 2700 fps
220 gr. SP 60 gr. IMR 4895 2650 fps
250 gr. SP 53 gr. IMR 4895 2350 fps
300 gr. SP 52 gr. IMR 4064 2300 fps
200 gr. SP Factory load 2710 fps

.35 Sambar
200 gr. Hor SP 65 gr. Varget 2771 fps
200 gr. Hor SP 68 gr. Varget 2920 fps
225 gr. Nos BT 65 gr. Varget 2755 fps
225 gr. Nos BT 75 gr. H 4350 2843 fps
250 gr. Speer GS 72 gr. H 4350 2700 fps

Smokemaker--Hope this helps. It's all I've got on the .35 Sambar for velocities. You will note that there aren't many straight-across comparisons. And BTW, just for the lawyers, I take NO RESPONSIBILITY for these loads. Use 'em and you are on your own. They're copied directly from COTW; I almost never give powder amounts over the I'net.

If you can't find a Remington in .35 Whelen, you might want to consider locating a Ruger Model 77 chambered in .358 Win. I still see them on occasion at gun shows and they've been going for $650.00 or so on the low side to $850.00 or so on the high side. Nice rifle and caliber and has the slight advantage of being chambered in a shorter, .308 size action, as opposed to the longer, 30-06 size action.

35 Brown Whelan

I have a question to ask, i have a 35 brown whelan that i have had for twenty years, i have less than 5 bullets left and have no means to load my own loads, My question is can i buy factory 35 whelan loads and shoot them in my gun? Thanks John

I don't know about "Brown" Whelen ammunition but "regular" 35 Whelen can still be had.You won't find them at SuperMart but, though it may take a little looking, 35 Whelen ammunition can still be found at some gunshops. Midway stocks four (4) different Double Tap loads, one (1) Federal load, three (3) Nosler loads and two (2) Remington loads.

I mention standard Whelen in context with the Brown Whelen cartridge only because I wonder if the cartridge case would be easier to form as opposed to the 30-06 parent case. I don't know if standard Whelen cartridges can safely (even if to "fireform") be shot in your Brown Whelen chamber.

John- I don't know the answer either. You might consider posting your question on the reloader forum. I'd bet that someone there knows.

You could also check out www.reloadersnest.com. But they don't list anything about your Brown Whelen.

Wyman

The .35 Whelen Ackley Improved version has particular usefulness when shooting cast bullets at lower pressures. These cases do not suffer increased headspace with firing. The .35Whelen AI is also an improvement over the standard case when pushing 300 grain slugs at reasonable pressures. Of course you will need a twist rate of 1 in 14" instead of the usual 1 in 16 twist to do this. A Woodleigh .358/300 grain soft point at 2200 fps. will go through a Water buffalo right shoulder to left hip and keep going. This combination will take any North American game including Bison and big Brown Bears (grizleys and polar too) The AI design allows an additional 200+ fps at the same pressure as the maximum for the standard .35 Whelen case (55,000 psi)

06-338 if you reload...

I have a question to ask, i have a 35 brown whelan that i have had for twenty years, i have less than 5 bullets left and have no means to load my own loads, My question is can i buy factory 35 whelan loads and shoot them in my gun? Thanks John

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take the time to read the thread.

Vern said

The AI (Ackley Improved) cartridges merely change the shoulder angle. They add very little case volume. One key "advantage" for the AI cartridges is that you can fire a standard round in the AI chamber. If you do any wildcatting at all, you know that means only minor dimension changes -- you certainly cannot fire a .35 Whelen in a .35 B-W chamber

Click to expand...