Why are so many gunowners ungenerous?

lives in germany, they are expensive there....

He bought an AR15 in GERMANY don't expect him to get sportsmans warehouse pricing.

I for myself will never fire a single round Wolf in my Sig551.

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SIG551 can handle Wolf, i would not use wolf in a AR or HK416 either because they are built as race or target guns in europe.
SIG551 is one of the last firearms you can buy in germany that could go to War and come back again.

$4,400.00 for an AR?!

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Oberland Arms and Saber both want 3.5k+ to sell you a AR, ARs in europe are actualy more expensiv then SIG rifles, but unlike SIG rifles, AR are legal in most european countrys.. odd.

Depends on what I'm shooting at. On bowling pins, coke cans, milk jugs etc... the cheap ammo work just as well as the expensive stuff. I don't think they can tell the difference. Now if I'm shooting for groups, out comes the good stuff but why should I waste it on a milk jug?

The only reason I don't run Wolf through my AR or my 1911 is I don't want to damage the extractor or wear the ramp and throat.

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I thought that myth had been laid to rest. Bushmaster includes a card with a "recommended" ammo list with all their rifles. You might be surprised to know they list Wolf ammo as one of their factory test brands and have experienced no problems with it. (It's not really a recommendation...they just state they've used Wolf ammo, among other brands, and have experienced no problems with either gun nor ammo.)

I shoot Wolf exclusively through my Warrior (well, my Colts, too, for that matter) when just practicing...nearing 10k rounds without a malfunction. Can't recall it ever malfunctioning in...and certainly not damaging in any way...any of my guns. It is dirtier than some other brands...I'll concede that point. But I think saying it damages extractors or other parts of guns is more internet lore than actual fact.

I once had a well used Colt AR with an out-of-spec gas tube. At some point after God knows how many thousands of rounds had been shot through the thing the extractor started ripping the rims right off of the steel-cased Wolf ammo. But the case wasn't stuck in the chamber. Just a touch was enough to make it fall right out. Before I figured out it was the gas tube I replaced a whole bunch of other suspect parts. With all the test firing in between attempted fixes I must off ripped the rims off of 50 to 75 Wolf cases. I never had to replace the extractor. Still haven't after thousands of subsequent rounds. Did anyone ever stop to consider the difference in hardness between the steel in an AR/1911 extractor and the steel in Wolf cases? I'm no metallurgist but I'd say the hardness/durability difference is substantial in favor of the gun parts.

Personally, with ammo prices they way they are and Wolf being relatively inexpensive and available, I wouldn't own a gun that didn't reliably function with steel-cased ammo.

You'd think with all that nasty Wolf ammo that's been the source of broken extractors and damaged guns out there they would'nt' be able to sell a single box of the stuff. But last I checked they're selling as much as they can make in all calibers. Go figure.

And what about the millions (billions???) of rounds of USGI issued steel-cased .45 ammo made during WWII for 1911s? Was steel-cased ammo not a problem for 1911 extractors back then?

Price of ammo has little correlation with accuracy. I shoot Blazer 9mm through my Sig, not only because it is cheaper, but because my gun shoots it better than any other ammo, I've found.

That is one expensive AR. Eotech is not a cheap optic in my mind.
Whats the problem will he not let you shoot the $4400 dollar AR or is it something else ?

I actually would prefer to know my weapon would eat anything i feed it. Just in case. Can you imagine being in a SHTF situation, and you have a fussy rifle?

Sorry but, why the hell do you care?

before we balk at the $4400 for an AR, we need to know what they go for in Germany, doncha think?

And I think we need to get off of him on the generous thing. I'm pretty sure he meant "cheap"

Sorry but, why the hell do you care?

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Don't you get it? It's a friend.

I wouldn't go shooting with someone that only brought his .25 caliber Raven Arms to do some range shooting. If you would, let me know when we can get together and I'll bring one to shoot while using very expensive safety gear and clothing.

Oberland Arms and Saber both want 3.5k+ to sell you a AR, ARs in europe are actualy more expensiv then SIG rifles, but unlike SIG rifles, AR are legal in most european countrys.. odd.

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That's pretty interesting. Kind of along the same lines how a Sig or H&K costs several hundred dollars more than a Smith and Wesson M&P does here in the States. Also how a Sig rifle here is a little more expensive than most baseline AR's.

Why do so many people spent alot money in guns but use cheap optics or crap ammo & equipment?

For example a friend of mine bought an AR for $ 4400 and only fires Wolf ammo and has a small nylon case for transport. The Eotech always travels in the shipping box to the range.

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I don't consider Eotechs to be cheap optics. Fairly inexpensive, yes, but very functional. If they're good enough for the guys in Iraq and Afghanistan, then they're good enough for me. But then again, maybe I'm ungenerous also (at least in the eyes of some). I am working on putting an LMT upper on a Bushmaster lower .

Looking at this Oberland Arms website, you German guys make some very nice stuff .

That and when he first got to go to a Walmart you would have thought he'd looked at the face of God

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Had a similar reaction when I took my wife to Walmart, Arby's, and Sam's Club for the first time

I don´t say you should use match grade ammo for fun shooting, but i think it should be at least brass and no steel.

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Okay, got it. It all comes down to what YOU think he should be doing.

I think you will find that the throating will wear out from firing before the chamber wears out or is damaged from steel cases.

If it was a AK or Mini14 i´d have no doubts about using the cheapest round avaible.

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Funny how they aren't damaged by steel cased ammo.

Please read my posting correctly. I never said that Eotech´s are cheap. I own a Eotech and i like it. I just said it travels in a paperbox instead of being mounted on a rifle.

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Right, but the Eotech was the only optic you mentioned right after you said your friend was using cheap optics.

So lets try this another way. Can you show your friend that the Wolf ammo is damaging his AR15? Do you have a better container in which to transport the Eotech than its own box?

Dunkelheit - If I paid that much for a rifle, I would probably NEVER shoot it. I'd be afraid to scratch it.

BTW, I see your point. I'd use the best ammo I could buy, or better yet - reload - for the rifle.

$4400 for an AR?.......not unreasonable considering the American Dollar is worth so little, a few more Gov bailouts and you'll need a wheelbarrow full of dollars to buy one. Wait till the Gov starts printing more money....

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People make strange choices in how they spend their money. Its like the
guy who spends $4000 on an amp but $1000 on speakers. There really is
no explaining it.

Your friend must be rich. $4400 for an AR type rifle?

The words "head....examined" spring to mind. What I want to know is:

Can he shoot ?

is it a vulcan arms AR?

Diminishing returns. Purchasing the AR increases the fun level from not having an AR by leaps and bounds. But having a high tech optic is only mildly more fun than an entry level one unless you plan on using it for serious training/combat, which most don't. The weapon is the main source of enjoyment. The other stuff is neat to have by doesn't really increase the enjoyment to warrant the increased cost.

That being said, I have an EoTech.

And what about the millions (billions???) of rounds of USGI issued steel-cased .45 ammo made during WWII for 1911s? Was steel-cased ammo not a problem for 1911 extractors back then?

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Back in the day, the 1911s had real extractors made out of spring steel. There are a lot of WWI and WWII era 1911s, both military and commercial, that are still rocking the original extractor that has been tuned once.

And a lot of modern 1911s have the extractor tuned by the owner and/or gunsmith, or replaced. I wonder how many problematic 1911s that Tuner has fixed with a properly tuned Ed Brown Hardcore extractor...

I used to buy the cheapest soft gun cases I could find... $10 was too much if I cold find one for $5. Felt the same way about scopes as long as they would not fog up and would hold zero. Things change, so allow your friend to learn, grow, and change also.

why do so many people care about how their friends spend their money?

if he isn't being a danger to anyone, and he is enjoying himself, forget about how he spends his money, get up from your computer chair, and leave him alone

Hehe, one time at gander mountain I saw a guy trying to have the gunsmith mount a crappy, old .22 scope on a Ruger #1 in .416 ruger(I just had to walk over there and ask the guy what the caliber was) with a pair of $6 .22LR scope rings he had just grabbed from the rack.

He wanted to get it ready for deer season he said, at this point I just kinda giggled and walked away. The thought of the guy using such a big rifle for Michigan whitetail was pretty funny all by itself. When you factor in that whole scope story it was way too much and I couldn't resist laughing.