Guy shoots himself at local gun shop.

I have a really hard time mustering up any sympathy for people that kill themselves. Talk about a selfish, cowardly, and cruel thing to do.

I do however have a great deal of sympathy for people who lose someone to suicide.

It really makes me mad that the emphasis of blame is put on the gun/gunshop....... what about personal responsibility?

I had someone I love put a gun to their head, I never once thought to blame the gun...... that's stupid, illogical, and counter-productive.

The guy could have employed any number of means to kill himself, the way in which he chose to do it just makes him look like more of an in-considerate, self-centered jerk.

Well that stinks watch next week will have to fill out a form just to test a gun.

I'm sorry in advance for this as death is not funny. but my laugh or cry switch is stuck on laugh. have to say this. can you imagin selling that gun afterwords? "this gun will blow your mind."

the way in which he chose to do it just makes him look like more of an in-considerate, self-centered jerk.

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You do realize that its one of the quickest, most "painless" ways to end a life. Selfish inconsiderate jerks tend to be the people that don't care what others think and don't care about anyone other then themselves. Such people rarely commit suicide. Although suicide suggests an act of selfishness, in most cases its not. All the people I have lost to suicide (all firearm) had a history of mental illness, and cared a lot about the people around them. The did what they did because their judgement was clouded, and they couldn't take what they were dealing with.

In all the cases I bet if they had been given a choice between having their problems fixed or dying, they would have picked having things fixed. The metal issues can really alter a sense of reality, many suicidal people believe they would make it better for the people around them by killing themselves. Their brains often make it hard to understand/process what is really going to happen to those around them. Again most suicidal people have some sort of mental disorder, which can severely affect their judgement.

I feel sorry for the poor schlub that has to clean this guy's brains off of the lane dividers. Selfish arrogant putz.

I wonder how many rounds he loaded.

I have a friend who had 2 people eat the guns he rented them. Selfish act that really messes w/ the business owner. There's always a better answer!

Fifty years ago I was a young college instructor of 25. There was an old lady in the department, highly respected and Oxford educated, who was past the age when she could have retired, but she had outlived her family, and teaching was all she had.

I had coffee with her often at work and had noticed that she was becoming a bit paranoid, but I attached no importance to it.

One Monday morning she didn't show up for work. The department chairman called her home and received no answer. He asked me to go check on her. She lived only a block or two off campus.

When I arrived at her house, I knocked and there was no response. I tried the door and it was unlocked. Calling her name I went through the house, it was a large Victorian house, twelve or so rooms. I found her upstairs in her bedroom. She was sitting peacefully in her rocking chair. She had carefully spread plastic sheeting on the floor and had put a garbage bag over her head and tied it off. Then she had shot herself with an old S&W break-top .32. It did the job.

She left a note bidding us all goodbye and saying that she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and didn't choose to spend her remaining years thusly.

I respected her for her decision. I still do.

...many suicidal people believe they would make it better for the people around them by killing themselves.

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That is the truth. All we can do is pay attention to those we care about. Often there is nothing we can do but grieve. It is a terrible thing for all involved.

Many ranges have instituted a policy against solo shooters on their lanes in an attempt to prevent such incidents.

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I can't agree with this policy and don't believe it would be effective - and would only handicap the shooter who occasionally pops into the range to shoot solo.

However, it is reasonable to refuse a solo shooter who had never been to the range and did not bring a gun of their own.

A suicidal person might recognize that a firearm is probably the most effective method of killing themselves. If they didn't own one, walking into a range and renting a gun would be the easiest way to obtain one.

It seems far less likely that a gun owner would bother to go to a range to do the deed.

Its not that simple. Most people see suicide as a fix for their problems, firearms are used a lot because its a very simple and quick fix. If a person has a outlook on life that things aren't going to get better, they are severely depressed, have health issues, etc they might choose to kill themselves. Most of the people I know that killed themselves weren't in debt, they didn't have that bad of lives, and overall seemed to be doing ok. They weren't happy, and had mental related issues (severe depression).

Depression and other mental illnesses can alter a persons perception of reality. They can also make a person absolutely miserable to the point they literally can't function in day to day life. Its hard to say that they are insane for doing what they did, because they chose something that they felt would end the problems.

Imagine being in a linear world where choices exist to fix your problems (such as seeking help, asking others for help, etc) but you are almost completely blind to them. You start making things worse by constantly making bad decisions, and every day that goes by you feel worse and worse. One day you awake to realize that you are so far in a hole that its unlikely your ever going to get out. You realize that you can't ask others for help because A) others might criticize you and not care and B) there are serious repercussions for admitting you want to kill yourself (firearm ownership rights, your employment, etc). You can't help yourself, your afraid to ask for help, and your want to end your suffering. If you feel that bad about yourself its easy to see why you could think everyone would be better off without you. Thats what a friend of mine basically said in his death letter.


The hardest part of understanding suicidal people is that its not what they are physically dealing with, such as big debts, loss of family members, terminal illnesses, etc but how they FEEL that makes them do what they do. Your average person could cope with loosing a job, being late on a rent payment, and even having a car break down, maybe even all at the same time. A depressed person (or a person with other mental illnesses) could feel like they lost all of the people they loved, that they are worthless to the extreme, etc over something as simple as being late to work. Feelings of very strong terrible emotions to simple things is common.

When it comes to shooting buddies and suicide, it is a real sticky situation because you don't want to alienate your buddy, but you don't want to see them do something stupid either. You have to pay attention to important signs such as commenting about how things would be better if they were gone, them giving away prized objects, etc. You have to keep and open mind and realize that its not what they are dealing with such as bills/spouse problems/etc but how they are coping with their problems. Don't be afraid to sit down and have a serious talk about suicide, and how they need to call you if they are thinking about it.

owlhoot: "I respected her for her decision. I still do."

I, too. And if she had to do it at home, she did it in the most thoughtful possible way.

A good friend of mine operates, among his assorted business enterprises, a special cleaning service. I've had posts deleted on this Board along this line, I suspect for distasteful detail, so I'll leave that sort of detail out. But I will say that when it comes to physical remains, suicide at home is the gift that keeps on giving, even years after the event.

Up here we have a sort of quiet tradition named after a classic poem by the Mainer Edwin Arlington Robinson, "Mr. Flood's Party":

http://www.americanpoems.com/poets/robinson/12641

The tradition may have roots in the local Franco community, who faced excommunication or damnation if they tagged themnselves, so they'd wander off into the January woods in summer clothing with a bottle of brandy. Ambiguous and far more considerate than tagging yourself at home. So much outdoors up here, and so little indoors. Many consider making that sort of mess in the limited indoors most inconsiderate.

This will almost certainly

result in some other restriction such as mental health screenings now going in to the shall/may issue process as well as places no longer renting firearms.
Although I understand the suicide portion from certain perspectives such as terminal illness (my grandfather ended it with HIS OWN .25 on HIS OWN couch due to emphysema) I must say this was a piss poor and terrible way to do this.
This ninny could have accidentally discharged again at someone with an involuntary muscle reflex, ground impact, or any other number of things. To boot, this person left the business with likely legal and media troubles, and the rest of us with more "for the children and the mentally stunted" laws sure to be on the way now. Thanks a million!
I know this is coarse but I cant help but wonder if this person was an anti during life. Doing one last service for "THE CAUSE".
If they weren't, they damn sure did a SOLID for the other side.

deaconkharma: "This ninny could have accidentally discharged again at someone with an involuntary muscle reflex, ground impact, or any other number of things. To boot, this person left the business with likely legal and media troubles, and the rest of us with more "for the children and the mentally stunted" laws sure to be on the way now. Thanks a million!"

As I alluded above, tagging yourself can be an incredibly offensive imposition on others. If you ever have the urge to really mess up a person's life, grab one of their guns in their home and tag yourself. I mean, assuming you were going to do it anyway. Preferably when they are at home and have no alibi, and only after texting police, claiming they had threatened to shoot you and were about to do so. Yes, this actually happens.

"I know this is coarse but I cant help but wonder if this person was an anti during life. Doing one last service for "THE CAUSE"."

As paranoid as it may sound, this may well be true. Sick, I know, but it actually happens.

A few years ago, something like this happened in Colorado Springs. A man walked into a pawn shop, asked to look at a .44 handgun, dropped a round in the cylinder, and tried to blow his brains out. The quick thinking, if not somewhat foolish, worker stopped him. Not wise to grab at a loaded gun in someone's hand.

Many here have talked about the deceased "being in a better place" (heaven) and I just don't know if that's true or not. Isn't suicide the last sin a person commits - and can't undo?

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I have also known people who committed suicide and have used the term "they are in a better place". To me that does not mean heaven. To me that means that they are no longer suffering.

People who commit suicide are suffering in some way, either mentally or with a physical illness.

StraightShooter: "To me that does not mean heaven. To me that means that they are no longer suffering."

I'll not pass judgment on how much pain, suffering, and humiliation a human being can or should be made to endure. God imposes, and God alone shall judge how one disposes. I can't really know His purpose for all of that business, though one day I may well find out.

But for Pete's sake; if you're going to pull your own card --- for crying out loud, do it outdoors. Preferably without a gun. So many boughs for a noose .. and nobody looking but a moose.

Duke

I never thought about that whole scenario of coming to your house and doing that texting police etc. THAT IS scary! Makes you really evaluate who knows what about you and your "stuff".

On March 1st, a guy next to me at the range tried to commit suicide. They took him out on a gurney. Due to hospital privacy rules, I still don't know what happened to him.

Quite a traumatic experience for all involved. I'm sure everyone has thought of suicide at one time or another, even if just in a Tom Sawyer "get to view my own funeral" sort of way. Now, having seen it with my own eyes, even thought is off the table for me. I would never put my wife and children through that.

deaconkharma: "I never thought about that whole scenario of coming to your house and doing that texting police etc. THAT IS scary! Makes you really evaluate who knows what about you and your "stuff"."

Locally, a few years ago, we had a devoted family man sentenced to decades in state prison for tagging his estranged, strange spouse. She called him no fewer than 57 times earlier that day, entered his home, and allegedly threatened their child with death (to spare it the experience of his doting fatherhood, no doubt). He tagged her from behind with a very well-placed .22lr round to the back of the head as she attempted to enter the child's room. That didn't look good. Not at all. Never overcame that one irrefutable fact.

He wasn't a client, but I kind of wish he had been. A few other people do, too.

I think Prof with the diagnosis went out on HER terms making the best of it for everyone else. I applaud. The remaining years would be steady reduction to that of infant and finally nursing home under chem restraints with ever increasing costs and expenses.

I would do the same myself with that Diagnosis.

But a gunshop again has to be the worst place for this sort of thing.

I suppose that if Gallows Humor was not enough, I would be on anti-depressants by now.

The Lord does not support this type of behavior, however there is a point where enough has to be enough in regards to suffering, indignity and pain.

Hungry Seagull: "The Lord does not support this type of behavior, however there is a point where enough has to be enough in regards to suffering, indignity and pain."

A local fellow once confided that he worried that if and when the time came to punch his own card, he'd be too confused, feeble and disarmed actually to do the deed. I told him not to think about doing that, and not to consider violent acts against himself or others, but informed him that if he'd like, I'd take him on a long walk in the woods one day, and that as he knew, I possess a legendarily miserable sense of direction.

Never came to that.

Usually a person who commits suicide is clinically depressed. They are so depressed that life is difficult or worse to deal with. Unfortunately someone with a degree in psych isn't here to explain it better. The depression has to do with your brain chemistry and is NOT from being weak or inconsiderate. You can have bad depression due to your genetics too. These people need treatment and likely medication. They can lead a normal life.

Major depression can be caused by losing a child, wife, husband, brother, sister etc. etc. Then it could be a combination of things too. Anyway please don't blame the person who committed suicide as they have suffered more than most people could imagine.

warnerwh: "The depression has to do with your brain chemistry and is NOT from being weak or inconsiderate."

Whether they choose to tag themselves isn't a matter of inconsideration. How and where (and sometimes, when) they choose to tag themselves, is.

Arguably, murder has to do with your brain chemistry. Those who suffer from that defect, arguably, should be pitied rather than punished. Doesn't mean I cannot revile it. I have had a person close to me attempt suicide in one of the most vicious possible ways. Yet I also knew two individuals who chose NOT to throw themselves down a hundred stories onto their rescuers, and instead burn to death. There's at least a certain amount of choice involved, if only in the time, place and manner.

I'm surprised ranges still rent to people that come in alone without a gun of their own to shoot.

Lots of the ranges around here have stopped doing that.

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I hope not... I'd have never been able to try the guns I wanted. The first few times I went solo. Since I often bring friends and have bought a gun from the range near me. They know me by now.

Suicide sucks. I've stopped far less consequential decisions in my life because I thought they'd hurt those I love.