Quote:
Paladin Hammer:
The simple fact of the matter is that in most states it wasn't all to long ago that the .223 Remingtion cartridge was BANNED for use in hunting White-tail deer because conservation departments nation-wide found the round lacked sufficient power to drop a deer in one shot. The newer, heavier rounds just barely meet standards to do so. Ask anyone who ever served in Veitnam, the 5.56 isn't a killing machine, its an accuracy machine. Hell, I haven't met a guy at the VFW in Kearney, MO, who said he thought he could kill someone with the 5.56 without hitting a vital part.
Quote:
The real reason we are getting these reports is one of a few reasons:
A) The soldier/marine missed but thinks he hit the bad guy.
B) The soldier/marine did not get a good COM hit.
C) The soldier/marine doesnt really understand human physiology and has unreal expectations of what a gun should do to a person due to movies.
D) Some people by the grace of god survive things they shouldnt.
Thats got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
First off, MISSING with a 5.56? Maybe if the guy never shot before, but Marines and Army grunts these days are held to a high standard with their rifles. This isn't the day of the M1 Carbine, and these aren't AK-47's. Their M16s and M4s. These rifles are used in competitions all over the states because its hard NOT to hit something.
Second, a "good hit", you probably mean one to a vital. I'd like to see anyone in the face of danger stop and think about the shot he's making. Generally, you get your rifle on target and shoot.
Thirdly, you compare our men in Iraq and Afghanistan to kids? These guys don't go through over 6 months of training to think that their rifles have Hollywood's physics defying bullets in it. These aren't morons, their soldiers. You should think a little better of them.
Fourthly, getting shot in the body and having the bullet go straight through you IS NOT something you should survive, grace of god or otherwise. You shoot anyone in the body with a rifle caliber .303, .308, .270, or other caliber bigger than .22 (by at least .05 inches), and they WILL go down. The heavier bullet means it can store more energy, which in turn causes greater injury to the target upon impact. It's simple physics. If I threw a pen at you, you'd be a little agitated. Now, if I threw a rock at you, you'd bleed or have a broke bone. If I hit you with a car doing 40 mph or more, you'd probably be dead. Just use your common sense.
The reason you don't hear high praise of the .223 at Veterans Associations is because in combat, your best hope of getting a killing shot is to place one in the head or heart (or other vital organ). The reason it was unavailable for hunting purposes for years is because it lacked sufficient energy and mass to drop a deer in one shot if you didn't hit vitals.
The 7.62x39mm has been used for hunting since its appearance in the North American market because it retains the energy and has the mass to kill, within its ranges (usually that is 100 meters to 150 meters, depending on the weight and powder load). The reason the .270 Winchester is such a better killer is because it bullet's weight is enough that once combined with speed is enough to break bones and stop hearts upon impact. Hell, I shot my first buck with a .270, in the NECK, missed every vital part in said area, but the shear force of the round hitting the deer caused the wind pipe to rupture and tear open. I hunt with the 7.62x39 now (damn the price of .270), and I've got one doe, a shot to the upper back, the bullet missing the spinal cord directly (a little low). However, the hit itself causes the poor things back to break, and upon inspection I found that I'd broke a rib and that in turn cut into its chest organs, making the process of getting the organs out a real pain in the ass. But it did the job.
I've never seen anyone bring down a deer with a .223 in one shot who didn't end up chasing it all over the place. It can be done, but your pressing the limits of the cartridges design by using heavier bullets.
