.38 super for concealed carry?

well I have no first hand knowledge - but here is a excert from wikipedia. Looks like a good round. I think its probably more expensive than a 9mm however, not a bad thing if you reload

"The .38 Super offers higher bullet velocities than the 9x19mm Parabellum in factory cartridges. The greater case capacity allows for more powder and results in higher muzzle velocities at approximately similar pressure levels. The .38 Super is generally regarded as a well-balanced cartridge with a flat trajectory, good accuracy and capable of delivering plenty of energy, in fact some loadings will deliver more foot-pounds of kinetic energy than most factory-loaded .45 ACP rounds.[8"

It looks like it compares with the newer .357 sig really well too. I think some downsides would be that it might be a harder caliber to find at big box stores and there wont be as many self defense loadings for it either.

The key factor in defensive ammunition these days is the construction. Regardless of caliber or company, most of the newest defensive loads for the 'big three' produce consistent 12-15" penetration through a variety of materials, expand to .6" to .7", and retain 100% weight and structure. Despite the never ending debate over which caliber is most effective, most modern JHPs produce nearly identical results. For some reason this offends everyone equally...

I think your main problem will be finding ammo at a reasonable price, though if you reload this is much less an issue. Also, the number of defensive loads for .38 Super is pretty limited. I think Cor Bon is probably the best bet, but there are a few other options such as Winchester Silvertips. If you handload your own defensive ammo (there are varying schools of thought on the legal implications of doing this) then you could obviously create whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

I have a Colt in .38 Super, and also I had a 9mm barrel fitted so I could have broader options. In the 1911, and using factory FMJ ammo, I think the .38 Super feels much like 9mm. Both have quite soft recoil, especially in an all steel gun like mine. I found some 'hot' .38 Super ammo, and it felt much like 9mm +P ammo. Even though I enjoy shooting .38 Super, I usually just shoot 9mm because I can buy it for a lot less (and I don't reload).

I like the Super and currently own two 1911s in this caliber (1 Colt and 1 RIA). The problem with the Super is that factory ammo (at least the "mainstream" ammo) is so underpowered that if restricted to those loads you may as well have a 9mm.

The Super is the same physical size as the older 38 ACP and full-power Super loads are dangerous in these old guns. For safety, the ammo makers now load the Super to the same power level as the 38 ACP. No lawsuits, but also no "Super" loads, either.

The 38 ACP was loaded to around 1050 FPS. The Super pushed a 130 grain bullet to 1300 FPS.For many decades all Super ammo was loaded in nickel cases while 38 ACP was in brass so shooters could tell at a glance which they had and wouldn't load the Supers into an old gun by mistake. I guess that wasn't enough for the lawyers because I noticed a few years ago that the Super ammo was coming in brass cases. I clocked some factory ammo and sure enough, 1050 just like the old 38 ACP. Technically, there is no more 38 Super from the major ammo makers, it's all 38 ACP.

Perhaps the specialty ammo companies offer true Super loads but if they do I am unaware of it.

I load my own Super loads and this cartridge can be loaded to impressive levels. My favorite load uses a 115 JHP at a measured 1450 FPS. This is getting into power levels associated with the 357 Magnum. My guns seem fine with this. I have gone faster, pushing 1600 with this bullet but I got pressure signs at that point and backed off. I think the 1450 load will do the job and seems OK in my guns.

Unless you load your own, or can find somebody like Cor-Bon making full-power ammo, the Super will not live up to its full potential. With proper loads I think it's extremely effective, leaving the 9mm in the dust and rivaling factory 357 Magnum power.

Before I got laid off, I was shopping around for a deal on a nickeled Rock Island .38 Super as an additional CCW gun. When I get back to work, that'll probably be my first purchase.

I don't think it's a good choice unless you are a dedicated 1911 crank and a handloader.

.38 Supers use a reduced power recoil spring, that can lead to jams, especially in the less expensive guns.

Factory ammo is either too whimpy (Silvertips) or borders on too hot (Corbon) and is expensive. Practice ammo is expensive, and you would need to put a lot of it through your gun before you could trust it.

I have a real nice Les Baer .38 Super, but I would grab my Glock 30 for CCW.

For CCW I would recomend something in black plastic. I'm thinking of a 4" XD w/manual safety in .40s&w.

P.S. that is one sweet looking Colt SaxonPig.

Thanks.

Recoil spring for Super and 45 have the same part number and look the same to me. Neither of my mine have ever jammed.

For almost 10/15 years , 38 Super was THE #1 choice for IPSC/combat shooting games.

To make a Major Power Factor , I run a 124gr. FMC bullet at 1350 FPS. ---- this comes out to a 167.4 Power Factor --- Major PF is 165.0.

This is with a FULL RAMPED barrel in both my custom Colts and Para-Ordnances --- DO NOT TRY this load with a unsupported/unramped barrel.

.38 Supers use a reduced power recoil spring, that can lead to jams, especially in the less expensive guns.

Click to expand...

Not from what I have seen --- the recoil springs are the same length from MOST major gun makers.

As others said --- unless you reload the 38Super --- it is really not a very good choice.


A great link for 38Super loads;
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=72

.38 Supers use a reduced power recoil spring, that can lead to jams, especially in the less expensive guns.

Click to expand...

Assuming we are talking 5" 1911 (which we might not be), the standard recoil spring for .45 ACP is 16 lbs.; for .38 Super and 9mm it is 14 lbs. A 14 lbs. spring for .45 ACP would be reduced power, and might lead to malfunctions. The same 14 lbs. spring would be fine in .38 Super or 9mm.

i know taurus is brining out a 24/7 in this caliber

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that for CCW, the .38 Super is a longer round then the 9mm, .357 SIG / .40 S&W.

As a result, the magazine & grip & frame is going to be .45 ACP cartridge length, rather then the smaller slimmer 9mm / .40 size.

If size does matter?

rc

I love the super 38. I have 2. Both are 2006's, one stainless, one blued. I have always wanted one but wouldnt accept it if I couldnt get near .357 power levels. So, after many months of research, I have re-sprung my stainless Colt, and started reloading some SUPER defense loads. I worked my way up with virgin Starline +p brass, and the end result was a 124gr. Speer Gold Dot @1450fps. The brass shows no signs of excessive pressure, and they land about 4 feet to my right when shooting. I think its one of the best gun/caliber combinations available, but thats just me Kevin.



PS Having said this, I still wouldnt carry it concealed. Its just too big for me, plus I would feel better using my home-brewed defense loads inside my castle (so to speak).

I read somewhere that the .38 Super was developed for the FBI during the John Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde days due to the fact that their .45 1911's were not penetrating car glass and sheet metal effectively. With this new breed of criminal using autos extensively for the commission of their crimes and for escape, the round proved effective in penetrating the cars of that day. Is increased penetration what you are looking for?

These are my weekly concealed carry weapons, and the Colt Super (1952 vintage, with Barsto barrel) gets carried the most, in an Alessi Bodyguard shoulder rig. My load is a Rem Golden Saber @ 1350fps, over VV N105. If I don't have too much coffee, and the wind isn't blowing too hard, I can hit a plum everytime at 25 yards. It nails critters dead on the spot, and a human target would probably not be able to tell this load from a .357 Magnum. [/IMG]

The only thing that takes away from the Super is lack of decent ammo for the cartridge. Most factory stuff is loaded down, almost to the point of being in standard pressure 9mm range.

Other than that, it's everything the .357 Sig is, just older.

As jaholder1971 stated, ballistics are about equal with the .357 SIG. I have found, regrettably, that the .357 SIG is a bit more difficult to reload. The bottleneck case doesn't have much of a neck, and if things are not just perfect, tension on the bullet may not be optimal, and it may get "bumped" in during feeding. The Super is regarded to be easier to load. Factory ammo is STILL a bit lacking for the Super, and the CorBon loads offer the best ballistics. The Win Silvertip is anemic by comparison. Come on, Winchester! Kick it up!

Well I have seen some good stuff here the general truth is the lack of decent defense ammo. I carry agulia fmj 130 gr. Why? Speed, they bust 1450 fps. I have tried georgia arms hollow points winchester, and I forget the other brand of hollow points, but none of them were doing better 1150 fps, 9mm speeds.

All in all I like the 38 super. I have reloaded some 125 gr hollow points to 1380 fps but question their performance and until I can test them I wont carry them.

On ammo for the Super. You can poke around here for an idea of some, not all, of the commercial loads available...

http://www.midwayusa.com/BROWSE/Bro...3&categoryId=7512&categoryString=653***691***

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?catid=645

By clicking on one or another item you can see the published velocity figures. You'll notice that most of it gets around 1200 fps. Except for Cor-Bon which comes closer to what the Super is capable of.

You may also want to drop by here for more info.

http://www.38super.net/

The .38 Super is one of my favorite rounds. Very useful for self defense and hunting small game up to small deer at the proper ranges. In handloads I've had 148 gr. rounds up to 1400 fps without signs of overpressure.

tipoc

Practice ammo is expensive, and you would need to put a lot of it through your gun before you could trust it.

Click to expand...

I don't BUY practice ammunition in ANY caliber.

That's why I have a Dillon 550 and several tool heads.

The Super is one of those rounds that many folks don't "need" but a good many want. The 9mm+P and +P+ can about match the Super (and as already been said most commercial ammo manufacturers load the Super to 9mm velocities) and the 40S&W beats it as does the .357 Sig in some bullet weights.

But the Super sticks around because many know it works well and they like it. Colt first chambered it in the 1911 in 1929. It was introduced in response to police demands for a round that could penetrate the body armor and steel bodies of the new-fangled automobiles that the gangbangers of the day were using. The Super worked well at this. So well that Smith and Wesson had to come up with something to compete with it. S&W first developed the 38/44 heavy duty N frame handgun and a souped up load of the .38 Spl. to fight off the Super. They followed this a few years later with the .357 Magnum. Police Depts which overwhelmingly favored wheelguns left the Super behind. Except for the Border Patrol and a few FBI agents the Super was never widely used in law enforcement except maybe in the west where a flat shooting, hard hitting round that penetrated better than the .45 was appreciated along with the 9+1 capacity of the 1911 and quicker reloads than the .357 Magnum.

When in the 1930s Mexico banned civilian ownership of "military" rounds the Super caught on there. Colt has sold many guns directed to that market.

The Super caught on again in the 80s and 90s with the rise of combat shooting matches. Browning imported the Sig P220 chambered in the Super and called it the Browning BDA in the late 80s. Years later Kimber, Springfield, etc. chambered it in their guns.

The S&W Performance Center has chambered it in a revolver.

It's a round that sticks around. Not because folks "need" it, or because it does things no other round does, but because it's a good round and people want it. Like the .44 Spl it don't fade away.

tipoc

Georgia Arms has servicing my ammo needs for almost twenty years.

With Georgia Arms, Cor-Bon, and stout handloads in mind, how does the .40 S&W deliver superior ballistics? The 10mm can edge out the .357 Magnum, but the .40 operates pretty close to its maximum pressure range, and doesn't have a +P capability. All of the loads I can think of have lessre power factors. Can anyone cite .40 loads that are superior to the mentioned .38 Super loadings?